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Author Topic: Its a sad state of affairs  (Read 1310 times)

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Offline WV Sawmiller

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Its a sad state of affairs
« on: May 18, 2017, 02:11:06 pm »
   It sure is sad to see our young folks working the register in a fast food place or store who can't make change. I stopped at a BK in Lewisburg WV for lunch and a real pleasant young lady took my order. Was $8.36 so to avoid a pocket full of pennies I gave her $10.01. She only rang up the $10 then could not figure that my penny plus the 4 (64 cents) she was giving me as change made a nickle.  If I'd had a dime I'd have given her 11 cents to get 3 quarters back and that would really have confused her. She had to call her associate for help then her boss to reopen the cash register.

   Kids today just don't learn basic math. They punch an icon on the register that records the item ordered and the price then totals the order for them. All they punch in is cash received then the machine does the math to compute the change.

   I guess WM and the other big sawmillers will have to start adding to Accuset a function with a picture of a 2X4 and a 1X6 and such so our future helpers/operators can figure out how many bf of lumber they cut then program in the cost for sawing or selling the lumber so they know what to charge for their services/sales.
Howard Green
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Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Its a sad state of affairs
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2017, 02:54:40 pm »
They don't practice math as they have machines that can do all the work.  Many don't even carry cash, since they have handy plastic cards that contain their bank or charge account.  Most people are carrying handy phones around which are evolving to handheld computers.  There's probably an app that saves them from doing the thinking.

I think its handy to know how to use math, but if you are never in a situation that you need it, you won't remember how to use it.  I certainly don't remember much about my Chem classes, since I haven't used it since college.  I also know that my math skills went down a bit when we went to computerized setworks.  I no longer had to build stacks in my head. 

I remember asking my Granddad why he became a carpenter.  He said it was because he understood fractions.  Time frame was early 1900s.  Since then, we've evolved to where machines do all the work of measuring.  What a cabinet maker used to do is now done by cnc.  Diagrams are drawn by machine.  And we've learned to run those machines.  We have computers to do all the heavy lifting of ciphering.  People today just don't need those skills.

The other thing to remember is that when we learned to make change, you could buy a candy bar for a nickle.  Labor was pretty cheap.  Now, change is just clutter.  You won't be as careful with something of less value.  That's why you didn't want the pennies. 

Things just ain't the same as the used to be.  My parents said the same thing, as I'm sure my grandparents did.
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Re: Its a sad state of affairs
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2017, 03:05:19 pm »
I remember asking my Granddad why he became a carpenter.  He said it was because he understood fractions.  Time frame was early 1900s.  Since then...

I knew you were an old fart, but not that old... :D ;)
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Offline Chuck White

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Re: Its a sad state of affairs
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2017, 03:33:48 pm »
The schools today don't push the 3-R's like they used to!

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Online red

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Re: Its a sad state of affairs
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2017, 04:45:57 pm »
I use a lot of Dollar Coins most people think it is a quarter.
We have a lot of good boys and girls in harms way
lets all support them and their familys.

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Re: Its a sad state of affairs
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2017, 04:49:04 pm »
I remember asking my Granddad why he became a carpenter.  He said it was because he understood fractions.  Time frame was early 1900s.  Since then...

I knew you were an old fart, but not that old... :D ;)

You gonna let him get away with this Ron?  :D :D :D
I'm thinking......

Offline Deese

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Re: Its a sad state of affairs
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2017, 05:01:18 pm »
Quote
if you are never in a situation that you need it, you won't remember how to use it.

This is so true. I struggled with math for a while when I started college. I hate to say it, but our little private high school lacked in that dept and I paid for it. However, I was required to take a few math courses for my wildlife biology major, and my last one was Calculus 1. Well, we had a foreign teacher and you literally couldn't understand what he was saying. I made something like a 30 on the first exam. He told me that I should drop the class because there was no way I was going to pass. I got a math tutor and immediately something clicked, and I understood everything perfectly. Or, as close to perfect as you could possibly get. We did math problems that would actually take up a full page to compute. I remember we had bonus problems at the end of each exam, and I made over 100 on each test after that. It was a small class, maybe 30 of us. I went from being last at finishing an assignment, to one of the first to finish. I was so excited, and then very disappointed that I still got a B in the class because my first test score was so low. I was within 0.5 of a point of getting an A, and I begged him and he just wouldn't do it. I'll never forget that. I felt like I earned that "A", but that's life.

And now, I couldn't finish--or even start--one of those differential equations, infinity equations, etc if my own life depended on it. Sometimes I look back and wish that I would have changed majors more concentrated in that department. Math is something that takes repetition. Lots of practice. It also takes the right mentor.
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Offline Ron Wenrich

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Re: Its a sad state of affairs
« Reply #7 on: May 18, 2017, 05:38:46 pm »

You gonna let him get away with this Ron?  :D :D :D

Sad. but true.  I've entered into the old fartdom. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

Offline Kbeitz

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Re: Its a sad state of affairs
« Reply #8 on: May 18, 2017, 06:21:29 pm »
They don't practice math as they have machines that can do all the work.  Many don't even carry cash, since they have handy plastic cards that contain their bank or charge account.  Most people are carrying handy phones around which are evolving to handheld computers.  There's probably an app that saves them from doing the thinking.

I think its handy to know how to use math, but if you are never in a situation that you need it, you won't remember how to use it.  I certainly don't remember much about my Chem classes, since I haven't used it since college.  I also know that my math skills went down a bit when we went to computerized setworks.  I no longer had to build stacks in my head. 

I remember asking my Granddad why he became a carpenter.  He said it was because he understood fractions.  Time frame was early 1900s.  Since then, we've evolved to where machines do all the work of measuring.  What a cabinet maker used to do is now done by cnc.  Diagrams are drawn by machine.  And we've learned to run those machines.  We have computers to do all the heavy lifting of ciphering.  People today just don't need those skills.

The other thing to remember is that when we learned to make change, you could buy a candy bar for a nickle.  Labor was pretty cheap.  Now, change is just clutter.  You won't be as careful with something of less value.  That's why you didn't want the pennies. 

Things just ain't the same as the used to be.  My parents said the same thing, as I'm sure my grandparents did.

That's funny about the pennies... Today at the junkyard I found a bag of them
in the junkyard in a car that was going to be crushed. It was not worth my time
to take them. They went to the crusher.
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Offline leot

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Re: Its a sad state of affairs
« Reply #9 on: May 18, 2017, 06:59:18 pm »
A few years ago I stopped a White Castle in the Detroit area and ordered a dozen  White Castle's the cashier asked me what is a dozen, the Canadian behind me quickly answered 13.
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Offline 21incher

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Re: Its a sad state of affairs
« Reply #10 on: May 18, 2017, 07:06:40 pm »
I don't think this falls into quite the same category, but I went to the store today and the person in front of me had 2 zucchinis. The girl rang them up as cucumbers. Good thing the woman was watching and caught it because  the cukes cost almost twice what the zucchini finally rang up for. smiley_huh Well they were both green.
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Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: Its a sad state of affairs
« Reply #11 on: May 18, 2017, 07:36:54 pm »
21,

   I could see that as being an honest mistake. Glad they caught it. I had never thought about what kind of training the grocery cashier has to go through in fruit and vegetable recognition.
Howard Green
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Re: Its a sad state of affairs
« Reply #12 on: May 18, 2017, 07:51:40 pm »

You gonna let him get away with this Ron?  :D :D :D

Sad. but true.  I've entered into the old fartdom.

 ( old saying )  :D :D :D :D
I'm thinking......

Offline Ianab

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Re: Its a sad state of affairs
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2017, 08:06:05 pm »
Quote
I don't think this falls into quite the same category, but I went to the store today and the person in front of me had 2 zucchinis. The girl rang them up as cucumbers. Good thing the woman was watching and caught it because  the cukes cost almost twice what the zucchini finally rang up for. smiley_huh Well they were both green.

Well to be fair, the girls primary school have actual vege garden plots that the kids plant and tend, so there is a fair chance they would pass the zucchini test  :D

They also have 3D printers and simple programmable robots in the classes. So the idea of connecting a computer to a sawmill engine to work out what's wrong would seem natural to them. Lara completes homework assignments using Google Docs (from school or home) and saves them to the class document share. Teacher can read and mark them off whenever. This is year 4+ stuff here. 

Talking to local business guys, they have problems getting staff with a bit of technical knowledge. Just driving a modern tractor needs a bit of computer skill, especially if you are using GPS to co-ordinate fert spreading etc. Trucks are the same, and the amount of computer gear in a modern commercial sawmill is amazing. Lots of complaints here about local machinery dealers not being able to diagnose failures in new equipment, because they haven't caught up with the technology. They might be able to work out your bill in their head, but what you actually want them to do is work out what sensor in the engine is broken...

One of our clients has just commissioned a timber new optimiser / finger jointing line. The control panel has more computing power than a Space Shuttle!!! So if you want to progress above the "fetch, carry and drag" job there, you need to have some computer skills.
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Offline thecfarm

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Re: Its a sad state of affairs
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2017, 09:33:52 pm »
I collect quarters.A quart mason jar is about $250. I will give an odd amount of change to get quarters.Sometimes they try to give it back,but I say,I want the quarters,trust me,it will work. When they punch it in,they found out I am right. I work in a hardware store and have people do that to me. I know what they want.
I am shocked that people don't know thier veggies. I thought everyone had a garden.  ::) I worked for a veggie,strawberry place. The boss liked me because he knew I knew what a buttercup quash looked like.
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Offline jaygtree

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Re: Its a sad state of affairs
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2017, 10:21:35 pm »
math was always an easy subject for me but when i worked a till i found nothing more confusing than when a customer put what in my mind was an odd amount of change on the counter. it was and is still hard for me to read minds.  jg
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Offline grouch

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Re: Its a sad state of affairs
« Reply #16 on: May 18, 2017, 10:22:59 pm »

Well to be fair, the girls primary school have actual vege garden plots that the kids plant and tend, so there is a fair chance they would pass the zucchini test  :D

They also have 3D printers and simple programmable robots in the classes. So the idea of connecting a computer to a sawmill engine to work out what's wrong would seem natural to them. Lara completes homework assignments using Google Docs (from school or home) and saves them to the class document share. Teacher can read and mark them off whenever. This is year 4+ stuff here. 


Please tell me they have a raspberry pi or arduino or something at home that encourages them to dig into its guts. :)

Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: Its a sad state of affairs
« Reply #17 on: May 18, 2017, 11:09:35 pm »
Jay,

   Then you'd hate me. If the bill was $1.37 and I had it, like thecfarm I'd give you $5.12.
Howard Green
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Offline Kbeitz

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Re: Its a sad state of affairs
« Reply #18 on: May 19, 2017, 05:55:25 am »
A few years ago I stopped a White Castle in the Detroit area and ordered a dozen  White Castle's the cashier asked me what is a dozen, the Canadian behind me quickly answered 13.

Could be true if the person answering was a Baker.
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Offline Ianab

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Re: Its a sad state of affairs
« Reply #19 on: May 19, 2017, 06:53:57 am »
Quote
Please tell me they have a raspberry pi or arduino or something at home that encourages them to dig into its guts. :)

A bit optimistic for a 10 year old girl  :D

She has on older PC running Linux so it's secure from malware, and an Ipad that her Aunt bought her. But she knows her way around those pretty well.
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Offline grouch

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Re: Its a sad state of affairs
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2017, 07:00:56 am »
Quote
Please tell me they have a raspberry pi or arduino or something at home that encourages them to dig into its guts. :)

A bit optimistic for a 10 year old girl  :D


Ha! You refute yourself, sir, in your very next sentence!

Quote
She has on older PC running Linux so it's secure from malware, and an Ipad that her Aunt bought her. But she knows her way around those pretty well.

You're just scared she might build something that makes you obsolete.

Offline Papa1stuff

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Re: Its a sad state of affairs
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2017, 07:01:38 am »
(That's funny about the pennies... Today at the junkyard I found a bag of them
in the junkyard in a car that was going to be crushed. It was not worth my time
to take them. They went to the crusher.)

I guess I am really old school as I would bend to pickup one penny . 100 make a dollar, old saying look out for your pennies and the dollars take care of them selves

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Offline Ianab

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Re: Its a sad state of affairs
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2017, 07:15:52 am »
Quote
I guess I am really old school as I would bend to pickup one penny . 100 make a dollar, old saying look out for your pennies and the dollars take care of them selves

While I understand what you are saying, the smallest coin we have here is now the 10cent.  Reason was that it cost more to make a 1 , 2 and 5 cent coin then they were actually worth. If they were actually copper, they were worth picking up for scrap metal, otherwise they just ended up in jars and down the back of couches and the Mint had to make more of them.

But being realistic, a 10c coin now has the buying power of a 1c coin when I was a kid. We are now on coins for $1 and $2, and I have $5 coins here from the Cook Islands. Only legal tender in the Cooks, but worth $5 NZ. Last time we where there that was enough to buy a big bottle of Heineken from the local Mart.  :D
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Offline logger RK

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Re: Its a sad state of affairs
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2017, 07:22:14 am »
I'm wondering if in that bag of pennies there was a 1912 or around then, that is worth a lot of Dollar Bills?

Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: Its a sad state of affairs
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2017, 09:43:56 pm »
I'm wondering if in that bag of pennies there was a 1912 or around then, that is worth a lot of Dollar Bills?




Just what I was thinking,  :D :D :D :D
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Offline Don_Papenburg

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Re: Its a sad state of affairs
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2017, 10:52:19 pm »
I go through my pennies ,pick out the 82 and older for the copper crock and the 58 and older for the wheat pennies . the wheat pennies are far and few any more.   I got one in change just a few weeks ago though.   Never found any that were worth the big bucks yet.
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Offline luvmexfood

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Re: Its a sad state of affairs
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2017, 11:03:28 pm »
They don't practice math as they have machines that can do all the work.  Many don't even carry cash, since they have handy plastic cards that contain their bank or charge account.  Most people are carrying handy phones around which are evolving to handheld computers.  There's probably an app that saves them from doing the thinking.

I think its handy to know how to use math, but if you are never in a situation that you need it, you won't remember how to use it.  I certainly don't remember much about my Chem classes, since I haven't used it since college.  I also know that my math skills went down a bit when we went to computerized setworks.  I no longer had to build stacks in my head. 

I remember asking my Granddad why he became a carpenter.  He said it was because he understood fractions.  Time frame was early 1900s.  Since then, we've evolved to where machines do all the work of measuring.  What a cabinet maker used to do is now done by cnc.  Diagrams are drawn by machine.  And we've learned to run those machines.  We have computers to do all the heavy lifting of ciphering.  People today just don't need those skills.

The other thing to remember is that when we learned to make change, you could buy a candy bar for a nickle.  Labor was pretty cheap.  Now, change is just clutter.  You won't be as careful with something of less value.  That's why you didn't want the pennies. 

Things just ain't the same as the used to be.  My parents said the same thing, as I'm sure my grandparents did.

I can remember back in the day when my parents would give me a dollar. You had to walk about a mile to a little gas station and get a gallon of gas which was about a quarter. The rest was yours to buy all the candy, pop, chips and bubble gum you wanted. Then when you got home you had to mow an acre of grass with a push lawnmower.
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Offline luvmexfood

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Re: Its a sad state of affairs
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2017, 11:09:51 pm »
Quote
if you are never in a situation that you need it, you won't remember how to use it.

This is so true. I struggled with math for a while when I started college. I hate to say it, but our little private high school lacked in that dept and I paid for it. However, I was required to take a few math courses for my wildlife biology major, and my last one was Calculus 1. Well, we had a foreign teacher and you literally couldn't understand what he was saying. I made something like a 30 on the first exam. He told me that I should drop the class because there was no way I was going to pass. I got a math tutor and immediately something clicked, and I understood everything perfectly. Or, as close to perfect as you could possibly get. We did math problems that would actually take up a full page to compute. I remember we had bonus problems at the end of each exam, and I made over 100 on each test after that. It was a small class, maybe 30 of us. I went from being last at finishing an assignment, to one of the first to finish. I was so excited, and then very disappointed that I still got a B in the class because my first test score was so low. I was within 0.5 of a point of getting an A, and I begged him and he just wouldn't do it. I'll never forget that. I felt like I earned that "A", but that's life.

And now, I couldn't finish--or even start--one of those differential equations, infinity equations, etc if my own life depended on it. Sometimes I look back and wish that I would have changed majors more concentrated in that department. Math is something that takes repetition. Lots of practice. It also takes the right mentor.

My daughter attends a major state university. She had the same problem. Still had a 4.0 in all her classes but struggled to understand the professor. My opinion is if you teach in a state university you should be able to deliver a lecture that the students can understand. Why pay big bucks to pay for a class where the instructor can't deliver a lecture in plain english.
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Offline Stuart Caruk

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Re: Its a sad state of affairs
« Reply #28 on: May 20, 2017, 03:50:52 pm »
baaa... my daughter could program a CNC mill at age 2 1/2. I still recalling her yelling at the neighbors dog... G28, G28, bad dog, G 28.

She's been running a CNC lathe by herself since she was 6...
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Re: Its a sad state of affairs
« Reply #29 on: May 20, 2017, 09:03:32 pm »
I do my best to make the penny's work,  the balance of the silver is checked for Bicentennial quarters or any other oldies
then they hit the bank cup.  stray penny's as well.

Was sad when the postal Service took out the stamp machines. they gave $1 coins for change along with silver.
I also look for $2 bills.

Did plenty of "field math" when I was surveying full time  but even then most things beyond cuts and fill or stake-out distances
got the calculator

D

Offline OldJack

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Re: Its a sad state of affairs
« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2017, 11:30:01 pm »
A neighbour gal was real proud this morning. Her granddaughter won a First in the Canada-wide Science Fair.  On the other hand I once gave a Cree Indian kid an oral Firearm Safety exam because he couldn't read well enough at 14.  He aced the oral.

Offline Kbeitz

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Re: Its a sad state of affairs
« Reply #31 on: May 21, 2017, 07:52:21 am »
Wow... That's my kinda girl... If only I was younger...
Collector and builder of many things.
I have a
machine shop
Wood work shop
And a Weld shop
And now a saw mill
and a bunch of new forum friends.

Offline Blue Noser

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Re: Its a sad state of affairs
« Reply #32 on: May 27, 2017, 06:45:13 am »
Quote
I guess I am really old school as I would bend to pickup one penny . 100 make a dollar, old saying look out for your pennies and the dollars take care of them selves

While I understand what you are saying, the smallest coin we have here is now the 10cent.  Reason was that it cost more to make a 1 , 2 and 5 cent coin then they were actually worth. If they were actually copper, they were worth picking up for scrap metal, otherwise they just ended up in jars and down the back of couches and the Mint had to make more of them.

But being realistic, a 10c coin now has the buying power of a 1c coin when I was a kid. We are now on coins for $1 and $2, and I have $5 coins here from the Cook Islands. Only legal tender in the Cooks, but worth $5 NZ. Last time we where there that was enough to buy a big bottle of Heineken from the local Mart.  :D

The nickel was our smallest denomination coin last time I checked.