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Author Topic: TRACTOR for powering Woodchipper  (Read 1651 times)

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Offline snowkraft

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TRACTOR for powering Woodchipper
« on: May 08, 2017, 09:07:14 am »
I researched and bought a PTO driven woodchipper. I have the Morbark 12 inch:http://www.morbark.com/wp-content/uploads/PTO.pdf   I bought it used, with maybe 5 hours. It is new for all practical purposes. It was just about what I would have paid for the biggest Bearcat model, so super happy about that.

Anyways, need a tractor to power it. (I needed a tractor to for other things also.) I talked to a farmer friend and he recommended a closed hydraulic system. I think that was mostly based on a hydraulic driven nurse tank pump, (which I dismantled in favor of a gas pump) but also assuming a closed system is the better way to go. Are there any recommendations based on what I'll be using it for?? Is a loader good to have on the tractor?? I have 2 skid steers.

Other things I will do with the tractor:
1. Pull running gear loaded with logs. LOTS of logs!!
2. Pull a 1500 gallon nurse tank for watering transplanted trees- lots of this
3. Cut grass on 10 miles of 15 foot wide ski trail, and some thicker brush. I do have a Ferris 3200 6 foot mower which works well, so may continue using that. Tractor maaaaybe only for thicker brush
4. I have an 8 acre field- possibly will plant something
5. Possibly use for snow clearing, although I have a tracked skidsteer that may work better.
6. Possibly pull a drag on trails I'm working on to smooth them
7. Pull float in parades. Hehehheheh

I sorta think the tractor will be used mostly with the wood chipper and a few things listed above, but tractors of course are very useful, so that could change. The tractor I am looking to get is around $25,000 and a good value for the money. I have mainly been looking at Kubota and New Holland. https://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/18670751/2008-kubota-m9540  At first I was looking at a cheaper tractor, but then realized that I'll probably have this for 15 years and will get used often, so I think it makes sense to spend a bit more, get something a bit newer, more reliable and comfortable. Tractor ideally is equipped with: 1.) 4 wheel drive  2.) Loader??  3.) At least 20 GPM hyd. flow  4.) About 100 HP 5.) At least 2 hyd. hook ups. 6.) Larger front tires for less PSI on the ground on ski trail = less damage.

THANKS for you recommendations!!

http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/45568/Tank-1.jpg
http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/45568/IMG_3050.JPG
http://www.forestryforum.com/gallery/albums/userpics/45568/IMG_3054.JPG


Offline nativewolf

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Re: TRACTOR for powering Woodchipper
« Reply #1 on: May 08, 2017, 12:58:25 pm »
Many PTO implements give you HP ranges required to drive the implement and then the maximum HP you can safely have on the tractor.  Do you know what the max is for your chipper.  Sounds like a great great chipper, you can go professional just with that machine and a chainsaw...and insurance. 

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: TRACTOR for powering Woodchipper
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2017, 07:24:27 pm »
Tractor ideally is equipped with: 1.) 4 wheel drive 2.) Loader??  3.) At least 20 GPM hyd. flow  4.) About 100 HP 5.) At least 2 hyd. hook ups. 6.) Larger front tires for less PSI on the ground on ski trail = less damage.
Here you go!  Big enough front tires! ;)

 

Doesn't have a 3-point but has a draw bar, TWO pto's (one looks like a drive line yoke) and two hydraulic quick disconnect pairs on the rear.  And from the color, it looks to be a Case so it has to be good!
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 38" cut Bandmill up to 64' - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Offline lopet

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Re: TRACTOR for powering Woodchipper
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2017, 08:34:23 pm »
I think one of the qualifications for running it in a parade is, it has to be shiny. :D  smiley_thumbsdown

 
Make sure you know how to fall properly when you fall and as to not hurt anyone around you.
Also remember, it's not the fall what hurts, its the sudden stop. !!

Offline snowkraft

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Re: TRACTOR for powering Woodchipper
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2017, 09:05:49 am »
I called Morbark and got some grouchy guy who I think thought I was supposed to know more than I do about tractors and equipment. He would give me absolutely no specifics. I USE equipment, but am one of the most non-mechanical people there is. I don't KNOW equipment!!

Johnsaw- the tractor gives me a backache just looking at it. It would get egged at a parade.

What about open vs closed hydraulic system??

Offline nativewolf

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Re: TRACTOR for powering Woodchipper
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2017, 09:19:13 am »
Man, That is not Morbark's best advert.  It is a simple question too, just how many HP is this rated?  Perhaps a user manual?  Should be fairly readily available as using with too high a HP will be dangerous.

Offline TKehl

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Re: TRACTOR for powering Woodchipper
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2017, 09:28:46 am »
I was raised on a farm (fifth generation).  We have several tractors that we use regularly.  Newest is a 2755 Deere (Not really new by any means  :D).   

I have no idea which ones have closed or open hydraulics or advantages/disadvantages.  I'm thinking open/closed may be closer to a Ford/Chevy/Dodge debate than something that matters.
Lucas 6-13+slabber, Mr. Sawmill bandmill, orange chainsaws, JD SSL, Case Backhoe, farm tractors, trailers, and 150ish acres of trees.  Fledgling woodshop with CNC router, laser engraver, Woodmaster 712, and a Berlin 108 moulder (project).  Oh, and a lovely (patient) wife and four offbearers.

Offline TKehl

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Re: TRACTOR for powering Woodchipper
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2017, 09:41:22 am »
OK.  I got curious and had to look up closed versus open. 

http://www.yesterdaystractors.com/cgi-bin/viewit.cgi?bd=ttalk&th=65791

Still couldn't tell you which tractor had which without looking up model #s.
Lucas 6-13+slabber, Mr. Sawmill bandmill, orange chainsaws, JD SSL, Case Backhoe, farm tractors, trailers, and 150ish acres of trees.  Fledgling woodshop with CNC router, laser engraver, Woodmaster 712, and a Berlin 108 moulder (project).  Oh, and a lovely (patient) wife and four offbearers.

Offline Puffergas

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Re: TRACTOR for powering Woodchipper
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2017, 12:34:11 pm »
I think my JD 510 backhoe was closed. Sounded like the hydraulics were always working. It would respond fast and this seems to be the modern direction - high performance. I'm old so I lean toward the simpler, slower, more efficient open system.
Jeff
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Offline loganworks2

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Re: TRACTOR for powering Woodchipper
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2017, 02:05:46 pm »
If you go to the lik you gave for the chipper it says in the specifications 50 to 100 hp for the 12" chipper. All the specifications are right there.

Offline snowstorm

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Re: TRACTOR for powering Woodchipper
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2017, 03:43:41 pm »
Open center is not more efficient.  It uses more h p.and makes more heat. Closed center flows only enough oil to do the job. When no flow is needed the pump destrokes going to very little flow. If it takes 10 gpm ..   to operate one cylinder that's all it pumps if you want to use 3 at once it may pump 30. Multifunction is way better with closed center

Offline nativewolf

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Re: TRACTOR for powering Woodchipper
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2017, 04:33:15 pm »
So you are looking at a smaller MFWD.  The smaller older case MFWD, like a 7110 would have been nice but frankly they are under reporting PTO HP on the older magnums so they are likely to have 120HP at the PTO and that would be too much. 

If you want to save money look for an aesthetically nice tractor from the next RB auction in Tipton CA-best discount in the market but you need to get to CA and look at them (always fun to go to CA for something).  Or look for tractors in AL, LA, MS, Arkansas.  Often they are at a discount.  Prices in Canada seem high right now and I'm going to punt the other recommendations over to Bargemonkey and others that really watch auctions and know their stuff.  I'd like an armored orchard tractor used in the walnut/almond business from CA.  Those tractors are low, narrow, and armored up so they are good for forestry work (i hope).  You may find one of those for 20k  without the armor in Tipton (RB site is very nice and you can look up prior auction prices once you set up a free account).

Offline TKehl

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Re: TRACTOR for powering Woodchipper
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2017, 05:45:46 pm »
Do the orchard models have belly pans?  ???

I've never been around one, but from the pictures I assumed they just had more exterior sheet metal to keep from snagging branches when driving between rows.  Seems like the newer ones are even lowered somewhat, IE less ground clearance.   ??? 

I guess I'd have to see one in person, but from what I've seen, I'm not inclined to look for one.   :-\
Lucas 6-13+slabber, Mr. Sawmill bandmill, orange chainsaws, JD SSL, Case Backhoe, farm tractors, trailers, and 150ish acres of trees.  Fledgling woodshop with CNC router, laser engraver, Woodmaster 712, and a Berlin 108 moulder (project).  Oh, and a lovely (patient) wife and four offbearers.

Offline gspren

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Re: TRACTOR for powering Woodchipper
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2017, 06:57:26 pm »
  My JD 2355 (1988?) 55 Horse power has a closed center as I think most modern JDs did. My old JD 620 (1956) has an open center. Auxiliary equipment such as a log splitter needs to have a valve to match either open or closed, some valves are convertible by adding a plug. 
Stihl 041, 044 & 261, JD 2355 4X4 w/fel, JD 620, Yamaha Kodiak 400 & trailer, Kubota 400 RTV,  P&M OWB, 75 acres to play.

Offline nativewolf

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Re: TRACTOR for powering Woodchipper
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2017, 08:39:50 pm »
Do the orchard models have belly pans?  ???

I've never been around one, but from the pictures I assumed they just had more exterior sheet metal to keep from snagging branches when driving between rows.  Seems like the newer ones are even lowered somewhat, IE less ground clearance.   ??? 

I guess I'd have to see one in person, but from what I've seen, I'm not inclined to look for one.   :-\

They have low ground clearance but do have some armor underneath.  The ones I'm interested are basically forest logging ready, sides have protection, radiator protected, windows are protected.  They are meant to be driven through branches all day long, they'll have 4-8k hours on them before auction.

Offline Gearbox

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Re: TRACTOR for powering Woodchipper
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2017, 10:13:25 pm »
I think with a 100 HP tractor you are going to turn that chipper inside out . Hundered HP is a large heavy tractor with a loader you will be over 10,000 pounds .
A bunch of chainsaws a BT6870 processer and not near enough time

Offline nativewolf

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Re: TRACTOR for powering Woodchipper
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2017, 10:20:11 pm »


This is just one example of the orchard tractors used in CA fruit nuts. 

Offline TKehl

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Re: TRACTOR for powering Woodchipper
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2017, 10:27:41 pm »
Now we're talking about something!   :o  I was working off image search and memories of restored tractors in Farm Show.   :D

However, protecting that PLASTIC fuel tank under the cab would be the first order of business before leaving orchard grass for the woods.  Tanks like this I've been around have actually been fairly resilient, but one sharp stick at the wrong angle = a bad day.   ;)
Lucas 6-13+slabber, Mr. Sawmill bandmill, orange chainsaws, JD SSL, Case Backhoe, farm tractors, trailers, and 150ish acres of trees.  Fledgling woodshop with CNC router, laser engraver, Woodmaster 712, and a Berlin 108 moulder (project).  Oh, and a lovely (patient) wife and four offbearers.

Offline ChugiakTinkerer

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Re: TRACTOR for powering Woodchipper
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2017, 02:29:59 am »
I thought I recognized that design from somewhere...

 

 
Woodland Mills HM130

Offline nativewolf

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Re: TRACTOR for powering Woodchipper
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2017, 08:41:27 am »
It is funny they didn't have the tank protected.  Some of the tractors used in the orchards are even wackier but I never thought of renting to someone making a mad max movie! 

So there you go, my best idea on how to get a forestry tractor pretty much setup (ok-fuel tank still to be done-maybe more belly work too).  That sold for 12k I think.   

Offline snowkraft

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Re: TRACTOR for powering Woodchipper
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2017, 09:54:29 am »
Yes, but is that PTO HP or tractor HP??  It is always good to get more info. A 50 HP tractor I'm sure would not work nearly as well as a 100 HP tractor. If you have a tractor with near max HP, around 100, is there anything you need to be watchful of?? What about open vs. closed system hydraulics?? Any tricks there might be to save time??    ...things like this

If you go to the lik you gave for the chipper it says in the specifications 50 to 100 hp for the 12" chipper. All the specifications are right there.

Offline snowkraft

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Re: TRACTOR for powering Woodchipper
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2017, 09:56:50 am »
What do you mean by multifunction??  ...thanks

Open center is not more efficient.  It uses more h p.and makes more heat. Closed center flows only enough oil to do the job. When no flow is needed the pump destrokes going to very little flow. If it takes 10 gpm ..   to operate one cylinder that's all it pumps if you want to use 3 at once it may pump 30. Multifunction is way better with closed center

Offline snowkraft

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Re: TRACTOR for powering Woodchipper
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2017, 10:01:07 am »
Thanks for the info- interesting. I did notice tractors around Arkansas seem to be a bit cheaper. I sent a pic of a narrower orchard tractor to my farmer friend and he said I would not want one due to narrower body being harder to work on- more cramped components. What is your take??

So you are looking at a smaller MFWD.  The smaller older case MFWD, like a 7110 would have been nice but frankly they are under reporting PTO HP on the older magnums so they are likely to have 120HP at the PTO and that would be too much. 

If you want to save money look for an aesthetically nice tractor from the next RB auction in Tipton CA-best discount in the market but you need to get to CA and look at them (always fun to go to CA for something).  Or look for tractors in AL, LA, MS, Arkansas.  Often they are at a discount.  Prices in Canada seem high right now and I'm going to punt the other recommendations over to Bargemonkey and others that really watch auctions and know their stuff.  I'd like an armored orchard tractor used in the walnut/almond business from CA.  Those tractors are low, narrow, and armored up so they are good for forestry work (i hope).  You may find one of those for 20k  without the armor in Tipton (RB site is very nice and you can look up prior auction prices once you set up a free account).

Offline snowkraft

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Re: TRACTOR for powering Woodchipper
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2017, 10:12:37 am »
CLARK EQUIPMENT in Kentucky has a lot of equipment in my price range. Here are a bunch of orchard tractors:

http://www.clarkheavyequip.com/landing.htm?http://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/list/category/1100?etid=1&pcid=3004840&dlr=1

Offline Ed_K

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Re: TRACTOR for powering Woodchipper
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2017, 10:53:22 am »
 I'm running a 6" chipper off my Landini it's 6o hp 58 at the pto. I don't see it being over powered. Besides all the 3pt chippers have shear pins to protect it. A 12" chipper is going to require a 100 hp tractor. The tow behind run 104 hp.
 As for tractors I'd look for one that has the fuel tank over the engine or behind the operator. Much easier to out fit the protection.
Ed K

Offline TKehl

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Re: TRACTOR for powering Woodchipper
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2017, 08:13:56 am »
Snowkraft, since we are talking ski trails, we are talking hills, I would say the 4x4/front wheel assist should be mandatory.  If you didn't have the other equipment, I would highly recommend a loader, but since you do, I would leave that off the list to get a good tractor in this HP under your budget.  The 2755 we have was just purchased after a long (multi-year) search for a good low hour 90 ish HP tractor with low hours, 4x4, and a loader for under $25k (also wanted it within 3-4 hours driving range).  We paid $23 with a "low" 3800 hours on the clock and the owner threw in a 3 point blade.  We saw many more that fit the bill without a loader for a lot less, but we run a cow/calf operation and need the loader... just like everyone else around us.   :D  IE, if you don't need the loader, get a newer tractor with your budget or save yourself a few thousand.  One could be added later anyway.

As for open/closed hydraulics.  To me it is a non issue unless seconds count on a repeat operation (IE loader work).  Your PTO will work on either, as will the 3 point and hydraulic remotes.  I could say get a live PTO, but everything that fits what you want will be new enough to already have live PTO.  The only other time open/closed matters is if you are adding to the tractor hydraulics.

Nativewolf, the more I think about orchard tractors, the more I like the idea of a backhoe with a winch.  Especially something like a Case 580C or K.  It has a thought out design to survive construction sites underneath.  The 4 post cab has poly sheet inserts to enclose it in the winter (Easily replaced if damaged).  Lights are recessed.  I'm thinking a couple limb sliders over the hood and rerouted exhaust and it's about set.  The loader protects the radiator pretty good, but extra there wouldn't hurt either.  A thumb on the bucket (or grapple), trailer hitch, winch, and grapple forks on the front would be about perfect for what I'm doing.

I've seen one backhoe with a log grapple mounted in back and really liked that idea. 
Lucas 6-13+slabber, Mr. Sawmill bandmill, orange chainsaws, JD SSL, Case Backhoe, farm tractors, trailers, and 150ish acres of trees.  Fledgling woodshop with CNC router, laser engraver, Woodmaster 712, and a Berlin 108 moulder (project).  Oh, and a lovely (patient) wife and four offbearers.

Offline nativewolf

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Re: TRACTOR for powering Woodchipper
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2017, 12:46:01 pm »
Tkhel, a backhoe with a winch is an interesting idea.  4wd of course...aux hydraulics..interesting idea.

Snowkraft, that firm in KY is just showing you what tractor house will show you.  Go directly to Tractorhouse.com and that will give you the ability to do an advanced search with all kinds of options for age, sorted by distance to you, etc. 

Offline TKehl

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Re: TRACTOR for powering Woodchipper
« Reply #27 on: July 07, 2017, 10:18:29 pm »
Ok, I just stumbled on an awesome forestry tractor (other than the price).  A JCB IHMEE. 



Capable of 55-60 MPH, Cummins engine, and road legal. 

I think this just jumped off the screen of Mad Max!  Especially one equipped with the armor package!


By Photo: Sgt Wes Calder RLC/MOD, OGL, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=30477044
Lucas 6-13+slabber, Mr. Sawmill bandmill, orange chainsaws, JD SSL, Case Backhoe, farm tractors, trailers, and 150ish acres of trees.  Fledgling woodshop with CNC router, laser engraver, Woodmaster 712, and a Berlin 108 moulder (project).  Oh, and a lovely (patient) wife and four offbearers.

Offline nativewolf

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Re: TRACTOR for powering Woodchipper
« Reply #28 on: July 07, 2017, 10:22:23 pm »
does it have a pto?

Offline Peter Drouin

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Re: TRACTOR for powering Woodchipper
« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2017, 05:50:17 am »
What I have seen it don't make no difference what tractor you have the wood chipper with the pounding of chipping will destroy the PTO gears.
That's why I bought a reg. 12" chipper all self contained.
2008 LT40 super,2008 edger, Cat telahandler, JD 5410 And can cut up to 45' long
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Offline Riwaka

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Re: TRACTOR for powering Woodchipper
« Reply #30 on: July 08, 2017, 06:33:15 am »
Probably an idea to put a industrial fluid coupling (there are smaller fc than the twin disc etc) between the chipper and the tractor to reduce the shock impacts of the chipper being transferred to the tractor.
The German made JDs with the frame in a small tractor should be ok if they have been looked after, but I would expect the spare parts to be a stinger cost.

https://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/17061253/2005-john-deere-6403   (mexican, build, material quality?)
https://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/20188671/john-deere-6310 (loaders on tractors are useful)
https://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/20205721/2001-john-deere-6410  (cab protection, but tractor might have had a hard life)
https://www.tractorhouse.com/listings/farm-equipment/for-sale/10946565/1998-john-deere-6410  (Tires need replacing,might go for a used tractor that has easy life and add protection)

Most of those tractors should run an 8 foot or wider mower and make the trail mowing a two pass task.
Do you have a custom  fuel tank maker handy, they can usually replace the plastic tank with an ali tank
Look to see if the skid steers could load trees on forestry trailer, save dragging logs with the tractor.