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Breaking in a Detroit

Started by Spartan, May 06, 2017, 06:45:42 PM

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Spartan

How do you guys break in your Detroits?    Just put new rings in my 453, and a new head.
Book just says to break it in on a dyno.   Not going to do that.
Thanks
Brian

treeslayer2003

don't idle it alot. i'd run it as normal. maybe some alternating unloaded rpms for the first 1/2 hour, then run her normal.

coxy

I always ran ours like it was in a race car (was always told to brake in a new motor like you would run it all the time) never had any issues  at the end of the day dropped the oil put in new run it for a week or two and change it again then normal oil changes the longest we ever ran a 353 was 13 years it was getting so bad that every time you shut it off just for a few min you would have to give it some starting fluid

cuznguido

From much experience rebuilding Detroits of all sizes:  Keep idle time to a minimum.  Run it hard under load as much as you can.  Do NOT put synthetic oil in it until you have several hours of run time on it.  Shell Rotella IMO is best.  Always let them idle a couple minutes before shut down will prevent cracked heads.

Spartan


woodmaker

In the northeast ,the advice was "run it like you stole it"
franklin q80,builtrite 40,husky 372,sachs dolmar 123, dozers,excavators,loaders,tri-axle dump trucks ,autocar tractor with dump,flatbed and detachable trailers, and 8  f350 diesels

sawguy21

 :D Bang your head on a sharp corner, slam your fingers in the door then run it.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Grizzly

Quote from: sawguy21 on May 06, 2017, 11:11:53 PM
:D  slam your fingers in the door then run it.

That's what an old trucker told me when I was learning and I'll have to say that every screamer I drove treated me well.
2011 - Logmaster LM-2 / Chinese wheel loader
Jonsered saws - 2149 - 111S - 90?
2000 Miners 3-31 Board Edger

mike_belben

Roll into throttle progressively.  Wind up, wind down wind up wind down (like engine braking down a hill) gradualy increasing both rpm and load.  No idling.

The cylinder pressure must push the rings down onto the land and outward against the bores.  Only in this condition will the rings high spots be forced against the fresh peaks of the hone job and wear them down.  The reason for engine braking is to let the rings come away from the walls for the metal particles to wash down into the oil.  On a gasser with a throttle blade this actually creates enough vacuum to pull them back onto the piston. 

If you idle it, youll scrub off all the hone peaks (like dulling a file) and there wont be any surface tooth left to machine the rings to the bore.  Itll suffer from blowby and oil consumption.

All my racemotors were broken in during the first burnout.  That would be best cranking compression and leakdown it would ever achieve.  A street car id do in 15 minutes of building up and down in load and rpm.  No steady state driving either. Roll in or roll out. Then change oil.
Praise The Lord

Ed_K

 How many hrs do you figure till it's broke in? I rebuilt my 4-53 in 2010-11 And only have 585 hours now. It doesn't get used much.
Ed K

coxy

when there broke down there broke in  :D

mike_belben

It takes until the rings are lapped to the bores.  Can be 30 seconds, can be never. Up to you
Praise The Lord

Spartan

Well it looks like tuesday will be the day the self-loader will be up there to set the engine in.

So I had to switch the governor of my old engine onto the one I am going to use.
I set the valves, injectors and rack.  But there may need to be some fine tuning of the governor, and valve lash.

Do you guys wait til you've run the initial break in to do that stuff or do you warm it up then shut down and make adjustments, then fire it up again and run it?

Obviously if there is significant valve noise I will shut it down but there shouldn't be, I set it to cold lash specs.

Oh, and how do you guys prime your "dry" head and injectors with fuel?  I thought about using my Mighty Vac, but don't know if that would work.

treeslayer2003

if you set the cold lash, that should be good. you will have to pump the head full of fuel, the transfer pump will never do it.
start it with the valve cover off and vise grips on the control tube, just in case. you may have to run the rack again, remember those settings are very touchy, i don't feel confident setting them myself. i will do the engine work all day, i leave the settings to an expert.

treeslayer2003

Brian i use the cheap hand pump most jobbers carry. plumb it up to the filter housing and pump until fuel comes out of the return. be ready, it will start "right now"

Spartan

Cool, thanks.

Did you have something go wrong setting up a rack before?  I set it according to the book, rear injector first and so on, is it that touchy?
What's the pitfall if I may ask?

treeslayer2003

i only ever had um run away on the road. 671 and 871, never a 53 but it is possible. no, mostly it will be very weak and sluggish if not set right. the best guys do not set to spec if ya get my drift......but they know what and what not to do.

Spartan

well my confidence just went down the toilet.

I guess I wouldn't even know who to call around here....

One thing I do have going for me is I know what it did run like when it was running good. 

treeslayer2003

lol, go ahead and start it with the safety vice grips and see whatcha got. we'll go from there. i know a couple tricks, i'll bet there is a couple here know a few more.

Spartan


Spartan

It's in.
However, I keep having setbacks so I did not get to try to start it today.  Still have to hook a bunch of stuff up and I have to fall timber tomorrow.
Probably looking it the end of the week to start it up.

Spartan

She's up and running.
Took 3 tries at the governor/rack combo, but I think I have it set alright.
It will spin all 4 up against a brush pile so I'm gonna run it and see what she does.  Engine seems pretty smooth.
Skidding bundles tomorrow; that will be the real test.

Thanks for the help guys.

snowstorm

Many yrs ago when I went to diesel tech school one of the guys was running the rack on a 671 in a 9500 gmc With that truck half the motor was in the cab. He had the doghouse out and with the valve cover off he started it and it ran away. The inside of that can was covered in oil. He did pull the emergency stop. It was his dads truck he was not impressed

Stoneyacrefarm

Congrats Spartan.
Good luck with it.
Keep her screaming.
Work hard. Be rewarded.

coxy

Quote from: snowstorm on May 15, 2017, 09:18:21 PM
Many yrs ago when I went to diesel tech school one of the guys was running the rack on a 671 in a 9500 gmc With that truck half the motor was in the cab. He had the doghouse out and with the valve cover off he started it and it ran away. The inside of that can was covered in oil. He did pull the emergency stop. It was his dads truck he was not impressed
my 671 does not have a E stop and cant find a place to hook one up  :o

woodmaker

Keep a large rag handy, to choke off the air.
Years ago ,I had a 3-71 in a Linkbelt excavator. My friend had slid his dump truck and trailer down an icy hill backwards ,the trailer hit a stump on on the left rear corner,and the weight of the truck bent the cross members so the trailer was diagonal,instead of square. We chained the trailer to a tree,after he had removed the deck,and started to square it up by pulling it with the linkbelt. The excavator stalled out and started to run backwards,and the oil pressure dropped to zero(because the pump was turning backwards also). I stuffed my sweatshirt in the air intake to choke it off.
franklin q80,builtrite 40,husky 372,sachs dolmar 123, dozers,excavators,loaders,tri-axle dump trucks ,autocar tractor with dump,flatbed and detachable trailers, and 8  f350 diesels

Logger RK

A couple summers ago I was working on my 353 in my Hydro Ax,that doesn't have any neutral for the drive I'll add. I had the rack off & without thinking it through I jumped the starter to turn it a little.  Of coarse it started & opened up all the way. With the oil shooting & motor screaming I couldn't get the injectors to the off Postion.I finally jumped off & grabbed my jacket to stuff in the open intake. Took a few weeks to tell My Boys about that one. Luckily the drive pedals were centered in the stop Postion.

snowstorm

Quote from: coxy on May 16, 2017, 06:05:39 AM
Quote from: snowstorm on May 15, 2017, 09:18:21 PM
Many yrs ago when I went to diesel tech school one of the guys was running the rack on a 671 in a 9500 gmc With that truck half the motor was in the cab. He had the doghouse out and with the valve cover off he started it and it ran away. The inside of that can was covered in oil. He did pull the emergency stop. It was his dads truck he was not impressed
my 671 does not have a E stop and cant find a place to hook one up  :o
turbo motor didnt use them

coxy

oh see  ;D      do you know why 

dustyhat

Keep it screaming . if ours ever quit leaking oil we new we had a problem.

Spartan

Snowed all day today so we didn't work.  Too much slime and mud.
I did pull logs with it yesterday.  Was not as impressed.  Doesn't seem to have the guts my last engine had.  It sure does run smooth though.
But I definitely don't see all the power I had before.
So... I am going to be mechanicing tomorrow until things dry out a bit.  Going to re-torque the head, check the valve lash (tiny bit of ping at idle), and I will run the rack one more time and check my injector height again.

One thing I was thinking of too, this engine that I put in was probably out of a loader, I wonder it the cam profile is different.  I have read that some engines had a low lift cam?  That might be a difference too. 

It will pull logs for sure, but I did a lot of repairs this go around, I changed my exhaust, repaired many seals in my tranny and took the converter all apart and put new bearings and sleeves and seals in it, But thats a lot of variables to change at once and I thought I would have more power.

So... I will start with the engine and make sure its what its supposed to be.
I know its close though.

treeslayer2003

do all that yes. know that it will get a bit better as it breaks in. last tip, and its vague but best i can do. make sure when the racks are in full fuel, they are fairly snug. yes i know the book does not say this. i am not responsible for run away engines.

bushmechanic

Spartan did you have the geartrain out of that engine? She may be a tooth out on the valve timing. Those markings for the timing are sometimes difficult to read especially was on the years that there could have been turbo's on them. We had one in a 230D forwarder for ten years and when we took it out to rebuild found that it was out one tooth. It ran good just never a lot of power, but the rebuilt engine made her into a different animal!   

Spartan

unfortunately, no, I did not.
I bought it as a running engine.
The bearings all looked almost new so I only messed with the pistons and liners there was oil in no 2 and 4 exhaust ports so I honed and re-ringed (on top of rebuilding the head).  Can you view the marks from the inspection plates on the rear?

Spartan

I found how to check it in the book.

Pain in the butt

treeslayer2003


Spartan

n45

worked on it today, had to pull the rack to re-torque the head, fine tuned some stuff.  Seems to run really well, was not able to skid, too muddy.
But I will have to stop monkeying with it now.
You know how it is   No income = bad outcome.  So I gotta put it to work and we'll just see what it does.

I was not going to pull the injector and see if it is a tooth off doing that whole procedure.  It runs really smooth and starts really easy so I don't think it outa whack.

What is the difference between a High velocity/high lift cam and a low velocity/high lift cam?

This motor has a V7 cam.  Low velocity/high lift?
my old motor would have probably had the other one (but its gone now so can't check for sure)

Spartan

Update.

Engine runs fine.  After about the third drag uphill this morning, something freed up and started flowing better in the tranny (my best guess).
Power is now normal.

Who knew.

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