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Author Topic: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)  (Read 1603 times)

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Offline tule peak timber

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Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #20 on: May 15, 2017, 09:50:00 am »
 

  

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Offline Just Me

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Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #21 on: May 15, 2017, 10:04:10 am »
What do you think of the T120 Class? That looks like the hood with the mechanical readouts? How does that sliding table handle heavier parts such as large door rails? What is the biggest cutter that you swing on it and how does it handle it?

I was wondering if it could handle 9" coping disks is why I ask. Have been contemplating.....

Larry

Offline nativewolf

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Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #22 on: May 15, 2017, 10:04:57 am »
lots of good info on this thread

Offline tule peak timber

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Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #23 on: May 15, 2017, 10:10:55 am »
What do you think of the T120 Class? That looks like the hood with the mechanical readouts? How does that sliding table handle heavier parts such as large door rails? What is the biggest cutter that you swing on it and how does it handle it?

I was wondering if it could handle 9" coping disks is why I ask. Have been contemplating.....

Larry
I think they can swing a 12-13 inch cutter (130 class). Don't know about the 120 class. For door building the sliding side table is the ticket. 

  

 
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Offline Just Me

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Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2017, 11:01:09 am »
I read the front of the machine wrong, thought it looked heavy. Like I said, My eyes are are not getting younger.....

Offline Larry

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Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2017, 12:57:24 pm »
I have a 120 class but its an old tan dog.  Just put new bearings in the spindle....more $$$$ than I paid for the machine.  Haven't ran anything that big on it yet, still learning.
Larry

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Online teakwood

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Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2017, 09:49:49 pm »
Nice shapers!!

My brother arrives tomorrow in San Jose ;D have to pick him up, (he and 4 more guys ready for beach, booze and .... you know what i mean) he will not bring the old sander so maybe i will have a word with him  ;D ;D.

Lots of used SCM around, they have a very good reputation. Felder and Hammer (hammer is a company inside the Felder group) they are between the hobby and profi segment. I think SCM and Griggio (italians) are a little above them, i have a paoloni shaper (italian also) and its a good machine (above hobby quality) but all those brand are not in the same league with a Altendorf, Martin or Steinemann Sanders from Switzerland (there are more brands), those are just top quality machines for full time professional applications.
For most of us here on the forum who are hobby and part time woodworker a grizzly, jet, powermatic, ... will be sufficient and affordable.

My little brother works (as employee) in a furniture and kitchen woodworking company in Switzerland, they have 12 employees. they changed the widebelt sander with a new topnotch one, 50" wide with i think 2 belts sander with the newest technology. I asked him how much 70-100k ???  He told me, you way of:  350k  :o :o,    CNC machine for over a million, sliding table saw 80k, planer 40k, thats just a whole other level.

That Martin stuff is nice, but as far as the basic function of a machine, they are not a necessity. I have friends that have them because they are in a unique position in very affluent areas and can afford them, but when it comes down to what a machine is for you can get the same results with less convenience for a lot less. We were talking planers, so lets look at that. The Martin is about $40K, the SCMI with the exact same head is about $18K. there is no difference between the finishes, both come out exactly the dimension that was input, and both are ready for final sanding grits right out of the machine. Both are available with keypad input, and the SCMI is availabe with a simpler mechanical readout, which is the one I have. Mine has been spot on since I bought it, and for me I prefer the simpler control system. I can fix the one I have if it goes down, I can not fix a computerized model.

I would love to have a Martin shaper. My eyes are getting bad and never having to set a cutter up twice would be awesome. SCMI has a shaper with the same features, as does Panhans and other more obscure manufacturers, but there is a rub for me besides being able to afford/justify them in the first place.

An old Martin, well cared for, will sell for what it costs new, prices on nice T21 shapers for example reflect this. But what is going to happen to a totally computerized shaper as it ages? Electronic components that are used to make up the curcuit boards are constantly changing, and when the machine is twenty years old you may blow a part in a control circuit that is no longer available. So what is the workaround? The machines of this class do not have any manual overrides, so your choices are almost nonexistant if the manufacturer does not have the part. Iron and steel can be machined, electrical components not so much. Then add the cost of getting a tech to your location, etc.etc. and I have to question whether these new class of machines are a good long term investment.

as an example I recently saw a Panhans shaper comparable to Martins better offerings go up for auction. It had every bell and whistle that you could imagine, computerized hood/spindle/feeder, had a tenoning table, Aigner fences as well as stock tenoning hood, and not a scratch on it. It was 14 years old. In the $70K+ neighborhood when new as optioned out.

But...... the motherboard was out. It sold at auction for $4200.

Now my crude old Unitronix, a double copy of a Martin T21 will spin 3 of my 4 spindles with less than 1 thousandth deviation at the top of the spindle. When you boil it all down, that is what a shaper is all about. Other than I really would like a tenoning table, I can do anything I need to do with this machine, it just takes me a lot longer to set up. I can afford that time, because I did not spend a crazy amount on a shaper. A good SCM, Griggio, etc. will do the same thing, for a lot less. Interestingly the top of the line SCM and a comparable Martin are not that far apart cost wise.

Don't get me wrong, If I had Bill Gates money I would have a shop full of Martin, absolutely love the stuff. Then I would retire. 8)

But the reality is in my area, there is no way in hell that I could justify that kind of cost. I may be able to buy but would be working for my tools. Most of us are in the same boat, we live in a place we like, and so can not really get the big money.

Now you could move to NYC and get the big money, but what kind of a life is that?





I agree with you, absolutely not practical for the most of us.

I will try to explain why they make sense in Switzerland:

Swiss wages are one of the highest worldwide (min. 4000$/month, average 6-7k, a woodworker like my brother around 5400 depending on age, experience and position) For his boss one hour of a producing employee (making furnitures which brings the money) has a cost of 80-90$, insurance, tax, Secretarians paycheck, the bosses earnings, ......)  So, if the 10 producing employees save 1 hour each a day because the machine is self adjusting and computerized, the actual cost of the machine (200,300, 500k) does not matter! the machine is a lot cheaper over the years. After 10years when the machine starts failing they just throw it out and put a better newer faster one in.
O man: a kitchen in switzerland cost between 50-150k, 6 chairs and a table top quality from a woodworker 8-15k, the list goes on.

My brother told me, the new CNC machine can make all the holes, cuts and grooves in a door in 5-10min, a person will last 1-2 hours for the same and it won't be that precise neither.
If that's good or not? that's another topic

Here are some vids of nice woodworking machines, at least we can dream! :D
 





Offline nativewolf

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Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2017, 10:03:34 pm »
You see...I just had a sense that your brother would be angling for a trip to CR.  I just knew it...I had the whole world visit me in Bangkok...had to keep taking people on tours...amazing how many newlyweds wanted to hit Patpong, terrible duty..just terrible.

Well tell him to get right back on the plane and come back with heavy checked bags.  Between 4 of them they should be able to get it to you!

Online teakwood

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Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2017, 11:12:12 pm »
Ooo, he already brings heavy bags!!! With swiss cheese, chocolate, salamis, booze, honey, .... ;D ;D

Offline thechknhwk

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Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #29 on: May 18, 2017, 02:16:50 am »
Where do you guys find these things? (the older iron)  Then what do you do about the motors, replace them or run phase converters?

Offline Larry

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Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #30 on: May 18, 2017, 12:11:21 pm »
Most I get at auctions.  My comfort zone is a 200 mile radius of home.  I've also picked up a few at online auctions and pay shipping/rigging/buyers premium.

I never change out a 3P to single phase motor although I have done the reverse to eliminate a Reeves drive.  At present I have 4 machines on VFD's, 2 on a rotary phase converter, and 1 on a static phase converter.  A bunch of single phase machines.

One caution.  Most of the machines I get power on and do what they are supposed to do.  Most also need fixing ranging from minor to major.  Takes a lot of time and sometimes money.  A metal lathe and milling machine help.  An example.  Bearings for my SCMI spindle shaper are $800 for the pair from SCM.  I found one on ebay cheap and found the other on a close out sale.  Changing them was not an easy process.

Larry

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Offline nativewolf

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Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #31 on: May 18, 2017, 12:27:08 pm »
Ooo, he already brings heavy bags!!! With swiss cheese, chocolate, salamis, booze, honey, .... ;D ;D

Ahh well I guess you have to let him in long enough to drop his bags off in the cupboard.  It's great to get family visiting when you live so far from home.  I absolutely know how that feels. 

I'd still like his used sander though so if he wants a trip to the Washington DC area tell him to just take it apart and I'll send tickets  ;D

Offline woodworker9

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Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #32 on: May 18, 2017, 11:49:36 pm »
Where do you guys find these things? (the older iron)  Then what do you do about the motors, replace them or run phase converters?

Auctions
OWWM website
craigslist

If you look, you might be surprised what you find.  I do restorations on every machine I buy, from minor to major.  I have my own metalworking lathe  (a Monarch Series 61 that swings 18" X 54") and a Kearney and Trecker model 2K universal mill with a vertical high speed head for making my own replacement parts.  Nothing finer was ever built by human hands.

I have traveled as far as 1600 miles to pick up a machine, and have my own YouTube channel about restoring old vintage machinery, as well as woodworking and metalworking, sawmilling, etc.....

I recently acquired a 30" Yates American Snowflake Y30 bandsaw (quite a prize) in Kentucky, 500 miles away, each way.  The hunt is just as much fun as using them.
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Offline Just Me

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Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #33 on: May 19, 2017, 07:34:32 am »
You don't happen to be Darcy Warner do you?

Offline tule peak timber

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Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #34 on: May 19, 2017, 09:54:24 am »
I buy at auctions then work them over. There are good and bad points to old iron- the time and money spent rebuilding could have been spent making money instead. On the other hand.....Rob

  

  

 

 
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Offline Cedarman

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Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #35 on: May 20, 2017, 10:22:11 am »
I bought a Northtech planer  15 years ago or so with straight knives.  26" head.  Put a new helical head in for $4000 about 3 years later 8).  Have $11,000 in machine.  Have planed millions of square feet of cedar through it.  Have changed a few bearings and some gearing that wears out.  Made in Taiwan.  We can run 1000 square feet an hour through it.  I used it for several years to make shavings.  Hogging 3/8" off of several boards at a time.  So far, good service.
Not that heavy old iron would not be superior.
I am in the pink when sawing cedar.

Offline woodworker9

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Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #36 on: May 20, 2017, 01:14:58 pm »
You don't happen to be Darcy Warner do you?

If you're asking me.......nope. 

My name is Jeff Heath.
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Offline woodworker9

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Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #37 on: May 20, 2017, 01:19:21 pm »
I buy at auctions then work them over. There are good and bad points to old iron- the time and money spent rebuilding could have been spent making money instead. On the other hand.....Rob

 (Image hidden from quote, click to view.) 

 (Image hidden from quote, click to view.) 

 

 (Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

Nice!

It's a labor of love for me, and something to do in my spare time at night.    For me, I don't mind the time it takes, as I'm passionate about the process.   Everybody has a hobby, and that is mine.  Besides, I've made enough money on the machines I've restored and sold (40 plus) to completely pay for all the machines currently working in my woodworking and metalworking shop, as well as my Woodmizer sawmill.  Fair trade off for me.  The only tv I watch is Blackhawks hockey and Cubs baseball.  Otherwise, I'm working in the shop or fishing.
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Offline tule peak timber

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Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #38 on: May 20, 2017, 01:35:30 pm »
Did you mention fishing ?

 
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Offline woodworker9

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Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #39 on: May 20, 2017, 03:14:18 pm »
Nice!  A personal addiction of mine, although here in the midwest, the fish I'm after have quite a bit fewer teeth, and they are smaller, too!!!   :D :D :D

I'm addicted to the never ending pursuit of walleye, smallmouth bass, and the occasional musky......in that order.   A perfect day is 3 to 4 hours of walleye fishing at sun-up, followed by a great day in the workshop, followed by a 3 to 4 hour session at dusk.  Walleye bite is best in the 1 hour right after sundown.....

 ;)
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