The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:




TimberKing Sawmills




Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Forest Products Industry Insurance


Norwood Industries Inc.


Sawmill & Woodlot Magazine



Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades


Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

Woodshax Outdoor Vending Solutions

FARMA

Forestry Forum Tool Box

Author Topic: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)  (Read 2083 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Woodslabs

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 115
  • Location: Caledon
  • Gender: Male
  • Check out my wood mill in Toronto
    • Live edge wood slabs Toronto
Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« on: May 05, 2017, 02:41:13 pm »
Hi All,
I'm interested in purchasing a larger planer. I found this company from Taiwan http://www.chen-sheng.com/all.htm
Has anyone bought anything from them before? It looks like they manufacture the planers Can Tek Sells http://www.cantekamerica.com/machinery/planers-71/planers-single-surfacers.html
Has anyone bough anything from chen sheng machinery before?

Offline woodworker9

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 398
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Northern Illinois
  • Gender: Male
    • Elite Concrete Raising Co.
Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2017, 05:25:39 pm »
Run......fast.

Junk machines.
03' LT40HD25 Kohler hydraulic w/ accuset
MS 441, MS 290, New Holland L185

Offline teakwood

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 580
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Costa Rica
  • Gender: Male
  • Switzerland
Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #2 on: May 11, 2017, 09:07:39 am »
You know that or just say that because they,re from asia?

I think i looked at two of them working at a big sawmill here, don,t remember well if they were the same brand, they sure looked exactly the same, and they worked perfect, also no complains from the operator.

Offline woodworker9

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 398
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Northern Illinois
  • Gender: Male
    • Elite Concrete Raising Co.
Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2017, 07:59:02 pm »
Personal knowledge of a friend who made the mistake of buying one instead of a quality industrial planer.

Know this up front about me....there is no asian equipment or tooling in my shop.  I won't have it.

That being said, I have rebuilt and restored quite a few industrial American, Canadian, and German made woodworking and metalworking machines, so I feel quite qualified to know the difference between a quality industrial machine and a piece of junk.

If you get a decent one, which is a crapshoot, the history of these asian machines is that they don't hold up very long to heavy use.  If you're just going to tinker, and plane a few boards, then it will hardly matter.  If you're going to run a business using this machine as a value-added resource, then think twice before you spend your hard earned money.

There are plenty of large capacity, cast iron (not sheet metal) heavy duty planers that have been gone through and restored by guys who know "their stuff" that can put you into a quality industrial machine for about the same kind of money that you will spend on a sheet metal asian planer.  The difference comes 5 years from now when your asian planer doesn't work right anymore, and is causing headaches with snipe, head misalignment, and bearing problems.

I run a 1957 Powermatic 221D, which is a 20"  "finish" planer, and a Baxter Whitney 30" No. 32 industrial heavy duty planer that is capable of 30" wide boards that are 10" thick.  Eats wood for breakfast and smiles, and has segmented feed roller so you can feed multiple boards through it at once. 

I paid $350 for the Powermatic (a steal, I know) and it only needed a few setup adjustments that took less than an hour.  The 30" Baxter Whitney would be the last planer you would ever need to buy in your life.  They are as good as it gets, and can remove 3/8" in one pass, if you so desire.  Other great makers are Buss, Yates American, Solem, Greenlee, and few others. 

My friend did not take my advice 4 or 5 years ago and bought the planer you are talking about.  He runs a sawmill and a part time hardwood business, selling a light but fair amount of wood to woodworkers and builders local to him.  We're not talking 10,000 bf. per day or anything crazy like that.  He blew that asian sheet metal hunk of junk up in 3 years.  I believe he spent $4k buying it.

He now runs a Powermatic 225, 24" planer made back in the 70's.  I turned him onto the guy who restored the machine and sold it to him.  In his words, "it's nice to have a real planer."

I am sharing a true life story with you.  I also readily admit, as before, that I have a SEVERE bias against the asian made junk that is pawned off to unknowing hardworking folks in this country who are enticed by the cheap prices.  If you knew what I know about the insides of these machines, you wouldn't waste your hard earned money on it, especially when you can spend the same amount of money and find a real quality older cast iron machine, albeit with a little bit of searching and patience.
03' LT40HD25 Kohler hydraulic w/ accuset
MS 441, MS 290, New Holland L185

Offline nativewolf

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 526
  • I'm new!
Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2017, 08:28:43 pm »
SO woodworker9.  I need some help fixing up a modern Delta Planer.  Sat in a flooded garage for a month while I was traveling and had the head apart changing blades.  In the awful mess that followed I can't quite find everything.  Can you recommend someone close to Northern VA that would help clean up/fix a fairly decent planer.  I mean it is not your baxter whitney but it is the only planer I have.  Unless you want to pass on that powermatic?  I have a new garage on the top of a hill now so I am going to setup my woodworking shop, after waiting 10 years. 

Offline tule peak timber

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1507
  • Age: 64
  • Location: Aguanga , Ca
  • Gender: Male
  • roborob
    • tule peak timber
Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2017, 08:37:16 pm »
Used Chen-sheng equipment lasts a very long time on the used market. Newer Delta is Taiwanese and a lot of equipment from that country has been coming up in  quality in recent years. Go to AWFS this summer and see for yourself the difference in equipment's. Cheers  Rob
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

Offline Woodslabs

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 115
  • Location: Caledon
  • Gender: Male
  • Check out my wood mill in Toronto
    • Live edge wood slabs Toronto
Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2017, 06:11:12 pm »
I have seen Can Tek planers which are built in the same factory and they worked well.  Mind you it was the larger 46+ inch models but from what i can tell the quality is the same

Offline tule peak timber

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1507
  • Age: 64
  • Location: Aguanga , Ca
  • Gender: Male
  • roborob
    • tule peak timber
Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2017, 06:27:29 pm »
Asking questions is a good thing ! Lots of guys' on this site have planers that get plenty of use. I run a Northfield and a Powermatic- happy with both.  Rob
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

Offline Woodslabs

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 115
  • Location: Caledon
  • Gender: Male
  • Check out my wood mill in Toronto
    • Live edge wood slabs Toronto
Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2017, 06:32:45 pm »
This is why i started to look at buying from Asia.  Lately everyone, and i mean EVERYONE is building their planers in Taiwan and shipping them here.  Perfect example is the 20 inch planers i recently saw at atlas tools in Toronto.  3 planers all the same price, all the same just different brand and paint.  Laguna, Grisly and powermatic... i'm not paying retail Canadian prices when i can buy directly from the factory for a quarter of the price.

I just wish someone has actually used one of their newer planers.  I'm interested in the LSB-760 version.  http://www.chen-sheng.com/all.htm

I hope it turns out well  :P

Offline teakwood

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 580
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Costa Rica
  • Gender: Male
  • Switzerland
Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2017, 06:59:51 pm »
woodworker9:

if i offended you i apologize, that wasn't my intentions.

I totally agree with you post, i have 20" grizzly planer (was a cheap opportunity) in my small woodworking shop. I work maybe 3 month a year in the shop, professionally.
The planer is ok but if i would work 5-6 month a year i would need to upgrate. The planer work the hardest of all my machines and i do all my furniture's with real wood.
I would save lots of time with a big planer (separated infeed rollers would be a must!!), less passes and better finish

 

Offline woodworker9

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 398
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Northern Illinois
  • Gender: Male
    • Elite Concrete Raising Co.
Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2017, 11:57:21 pm »
I'm not offended at all.  I try to share what I know; that's all.  I'm passionate about vintage industrial machines because they are simply better.  There's a reason why 75 to 100 year old industrial machines are still around, in service, and are highly sought after by people in the know.  All you have to do for a comparison of what goes in to making a quality cast iron machine is to go to Northfield's website and check out prices for a brand new, (but made in the old way) industrial table saw, bandsaw, planer, jointer, etc.....$12K to $20K and up.

I'm even more passionate about not shipping my money to the disposable asian economy.....very bad for our own economy.

I'm out of this conversation before I get banned......
03' LT40HD25 Kohler hydraulic w/ accuset
MS 441, MS 290, New Holland L185

Offline Just Me

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 692
  • Location: Upper-lower Michigan=Troll
  • Gender: Male
Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #11 on: May 14, 2017, 08:20:31 am »
I don't necessarily agree across the board that old iron is better. Better than the normal Chinese machines yes, but better than the European machines, not so much.

In the case of planers/jointers there are indeed some excellent old iron. There are also some European ones that take up less real estate and do as good of better a job. I have an SCM planer I bought new 20 years ago with a Tersa head that has only needed one lift motor transformer in twenty years, does as good a finish as any planer, weighs in at 2000, so not exactly a lightweight. It replaced a PM225. One of my best investments. Also have a SCM Jointer, no complaints there either, and I replaced a Porter

When it comes to shapers old iron is weak, newer shapers are just far superior. The biggest thing to me is that old ones generally could not swing a big enough cutter,, and the hoods are rudimentary.

Table saws, eh. Depends on what you need. If you need a slider old iron is out. I had to choose when I downsized to get rid of my Tanniwitz of my slider, and the slider stayed.

Bandsaws are a nod to old iron. I had a 36" Oliver at my old shop that was awesome, but no room for it at the new digs so I kept my 20" Delta as it would fit in the new shop. Miss the Oliver. That being said would not mind having a new Italian model sitting in my shop either. ;)

I would say the Cantek stuff is a few notches above the average Asian product. It is my understanding that the poor quality machines coming out of China are more a victim of price point than manufacturing ability. My buddy has a Cantek SLR and it has been in service for a long time in his arcitectural millwork shop and he has no complaints.

That being said, I have one green machine in my shop, a little disk belt /sander, and I hate the thing. Absolute junk that was willed to me. Only reason it is still around is from a good friend I miss.

To the OP. For about the same price as The Cantek you can also pick up low mile Euro so would not count them out in your search. My planer is about $18K new, but I have seen them go used for about $5k.

Offline teakwood

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 580
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Costa Rica
  • Gender: Male
  • Switzerland
Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2017, 08:48:21 am »
X2

You want the best? Buy martin or altendorf, they are the leading brands in Europe, both from Germany. Of course you need to spend 20-40k for one machine.

http://www.martin-usa.com/company
https://www.altendorf.com/en/home.html

Offline tule peak timber

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1507
  • Age: 64
  • Location: Aguanga , Ca
  • Gender: Male
  • roborob
    • tule peak timber
Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2017, 09:36:23 am »
I ended up in the SCM camp.....
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

Offline Larry

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5629
  • Age: 69
  • Location: NW Arkansas
  • Gender: Male
Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #14 on: May 14, 2017, 01:01:12 pm »
A few more names to look for are Felder, Hammer, and Griggio.  Griggio also makes machines for some of the other players such as Martin and Laguna.  Seems like the used market is heavy with a lot of SCM.  I really like my SCMI shaper.

I've yet to meet a Chinese machine, other than my iphone that I like.  I think part of the problem is the business model.  When a machine is made in an anonymous factory to the price point of the importer, there is little incentive to innovate or improve quality.
Larry

Nine out of ten trees recommend wood for your building project.

Offline teakwood

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 580
  • Age: 36
  • Location: Costa Rica
  • Gender: Male
  • Switzerland
Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #15 on: May 14, 2017, 07:52:06 pm »
Lots of used SCM around, they have a very good reputation. Felder and Hammer (hammer is a company inside the Felder group) they are between the hobby and profi segment. I think SCM and Griggio (italians) are a little above them, i have a paoloni shaper (italian also) and its a good machine (above hobby quality) but all those brand are not in the same league with a Altendorf, Martin or Steinemann Sanders from Switzerland (there are more brands), those are just top quality machines for full time professional applications.
For most of us here on the forum who are hobby and part time woodworker a grizzly, jet, powermatic, ... will be sufficient and affordable.

My little brother works (as employee) in a furniture and kitchen woodworking company in Switzerland, they have 12 employees. they changed the widebelt sander with a new topnotch one, 50" wide with i think 2 belts sander with the newest technology. I asked him how much 70-100k ???  He told me, you way of:  350k  :o :o,    CNC machine for over a million, sliding table saw 80k, planer 40k, thats just a whole other level. 

Offline tule peak timber

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1507
  • Age: 64
  • Location: Aguanga , Ca
  • Gender: Male
  • roborob
    • tule peak timber
Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #16 on: May 14, 2017, 08:02:32 pm »
Yup........
persistence personified - never let up , never let down

Offline Just Me

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 692
  • Location: Upper-lower Michigan=Troll
  • Gender: Male
Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2017, 08:54:20 am »
Woodslabs.

If you are going to use this for slabs I would think you would be better served by a wide belt sander. I would assume that you are trying to get the most figure you can out of the wood so are doing crotch cuts, and with the grain running every which way a straight knife planer is going to tear out.

I would think a wide belt wound serve you better, starting with a very course belt to level and finishing up with a finer grit once it is level. There is a wide single belt Timesavers on the Woodweb for sale site for $2500 right now.

Offline Just Me

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 692
  • Location: Upper-lower Michigan=Troll
  • Gender: Male
Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #18 on: May 15, 2017, 09:31:42 am »
Lots of used SCM around, they have a very good reputation. Felder and Hammer (hammer is a company inside the Felder group) they are between the hobby and profi segment. I think SCM and Griggio (italians) are a little above them, i have a paoloni shaper (italian also) and its a good machine (above hobby quality) but all those brand are not in the same league with a Altendorf, Martin or Steinemann Sanders from Switzerland (there are more brands), those are just top quality machines for full time professional applications.
For most of us here on the forum who are hobby and part time woodworker a grizzly, jet, powermatic, ... will be sufficient and affordable.

My little brother works (as employee) in a furniture and kitchen woodworking company in Switzerland, they have 12 employees. they changed the widebelt sander with a new topnotch one, 50" wide with i think 2 belts sander with the newest technology. I asked him how much 70-100k ???  He told me, you way of:  350k  :o :o,    CNC machine for over a million, sliding table saw 80k, planer 40k, thats just a whole other level.

That Martin stuff is nice, but as far as the basic function of a machine, they are not a necessity. I have friends that have them because they are in a unique position in very affluent areas and can afford them, but when it comes down to what a machine is for you can get the same results with less convenience for a lot less. We were talking planers, so lets look at that. The Martin is about $40K, the SCMI with the exact same head is about $18K. there is no difference between the finishes, both come out exactly the dimension that was input, and both are ready for final sanding grits right out of the machine. Both are available with keypad input, and the SCMI is availabe with a simpler mechanical readout, which is the one I have. Mine has been spot on since I bought it, and for me I prefer the simpler control system. I can fix the one I have if it goes down, I can not fix a computerized model.

I would love to have a Martin shaper. My eyes are getting bad and never having to set a cutter up twice would be awesome. SCMI has a shaper with the same features, as does Panhans and other more obscure manufacturers, but there is a rub for me besides being able to afford/justify them in the first place.

An old Martin, well cared for, will sell for what it costs new, prices on nice T21 shapers for example reflect this. But what is going to happen to a totally computerized shaper as it ages? Electronic components that are used to make up the curcuit boards are constantly changing, and when the machine is twenty years old you may blow a part in a control circuit that is no longer available. So what is the workaround? The machines of this class do not have any manual overrides, so your choices are almost nonexistant if the manufacturer does not have the part. Iron and steel can be machined, electrical components not so much. Then add the cost of getting a tech to your location, etc.etc. and I have to question whether these new class of machines are a good long term investment.

as an example I recently saw a Panhans shaper comparable to Martins better offerings go up for auction. It had every bell and whistle that you could imagine, computerized hood/spindle/feeder, had a tenoning table, Aigner fences as well as stock tenoning hood, and not a scratch on it. It was 14 years old. In the $70K+ neighborhood when new as optioned out.

But...... the motherboard was out. It sold at auction for $4200.

Now my crude old Unitronix, a double copy of a Martin T21 will spin 3 of my 4 spindles with less than 1 thousandth deviation at the top of the spindle. When you boil it all down, that is what a shaper is all about. Other than I really would like a tenoning table, I can do anything I need to do with this machine, it just takes me a lot longer to set up. I can afford that time, because I did not spend a crazy amount on a shaper. A good SCM, Griggio, etc. will do the same thing, for a lot less. Interestingly the top of the line SCM and a comparable Martin are not that far apart cost wise.

Don't get me wrong, If I had Bill Gates money I would have a shop full of Martin, absolutely love the stuff. Then I would retire. 8)

But the reality is in my area, there is no way in hell that I could justify that kind of cost. I may be able to buy but would be working for my tools. Most of us are in the same boat, we live in a place we like, and so can not really get the big money.

Now you could move to NYC and get the big money, but what kind of a life is that?




Offline nativewolf

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 526
  • I'm new!
Re: Large Planer Advise (Chen Sheng Machinery)
« Reply #19 on: May 15, 2017, 09:49:05 am »
Lots of used SCM around, they have a very good reputation. Felder and Hammer (hammer is a company inside the Felder group) they are between the hobby and profi segment. I think SCM and Griggio (italians) are a little above them, i have a paoloni shaper (italian also) and its a good machine (above hobby quality) but all those brand are not in the same league with a Altendorf, Martin or Steinemann Sanders from Switzerland (there are more brands), those are just top quality machines for full time professional applications.
For most of us here on the forum who are hobby and part time woodworker a grizzly, jet, powermatic, ... will be sufficient and affordable.

My little brother works (as employee) in a furniture and kitchen woodworking company in Switzerland, they have 12 employees. they changed the widebelt sander with a new topnotch one, 50" wide with i think 2 belts sander with the newest technology. I asked him how much 70-100k ???  He told me, you way of:  350k  :o :o,    CNC machine for over a million, sliding table saw 80k, planer 40k, thats just a whole other level.

IF he were a good brother he'd send you the old sander :).  If he did not then tell no beach trips this winter!