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Author Topic: Kohler engine won't start  (Read 2436 times)

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Offline BadgerJim

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Kohler engine won't start
« on: May 04, 2017, 09:53:44 pm »
I pulled my LT40 Hyd out of the shed for the first time since last fall, put in fresh gas, engine won't start after extended cranking.  Pulled spark plug and it appears dry.  This is the 29 hp ECH749 EFI engine.  Doesn't appear to have any suction pulling gas out of tank.  Not a lot of hours on this engine. I don't see a fuel pump on this engine.

Any suggestions?

Offline Oliver05262

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Re: Kohler engine won't start
« Reply #1 on: May 04, 2017, 10:13:53 pm »
  Put a small amount of gas right in the carburetor and try it. I usually have to do this with small engines the first startup of the season. Should be OK after the initial run.....
  Usually a few squirts of gas from a pump oiler or a small bottlecap full will be all you need to get her to snort. Might have to repeat once or twice before it will stay running.
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Offline Bluejay27

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Re: Kohler engine won't start
« Reply #2 on: May 04, 2017, 10:19:17 pm »
If it's the same as our '08 LT40HD (28hp), the fuel pump is mounted under the fuel tank mount, inside the cover for the up/down motor. If it's fuel injected, then it should have the electric pump. Does it run if you spray starting fluid in the intake?
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Offline BadgerJim

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Re: Kohler engine won't start
« Reply #3 on: May 04, 2017, 10:32:17 pm »
thanks for the suggestions. It is the electronic fuel injection. I have not sprayed starting fluid into the air intake nor have I put any fuel in the carb. I don't think it has a carb being EFI.

I was going to get some starter fluid, a new fuel filter and will take a look at the fuel pump tomorrow.

Thank you both for the quick replies.

Offline carykong

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Re: Kohler engine won't start
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2017, 10:37:28 pm »
Sea foam! It's magic

Offline pineywoods

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Re: Kohler engine won't start
« Reply #5 on: May 04, 2017, 10:46:17 pm »
Look at the O ring seal in the fuel line quick disconnect. O ring shrinks due to alcohol gas allowing the fuel pump to suck air instead of gas..Had this problem more than once..
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Offline greglwood

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Re: Kohler engine won't start
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2017, 11:13:55 pm »
This happened to mine about 4 months ago. It turned out to be the fuel pump. Even though it was pumping fuel it was not pumping at a high enough pressure. In my case it was fixed under warranty. I believe that engine has a 3 year warrenty.

Offline BadgerJim

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Re: Kohler engine won't start
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2017, 11:25:46 pm »
it definitely seems like a lack of fuel problem to me. Both the o-ring and the faulty fuel pump sounds like strong possibilities I'll check out in the morning.

Thank you all.

Offline sawguy21

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Re: Kohler engine won't start
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2017, 11:45:53 pm »
Leave the starting fluid for the diesel, that is one of the worst things you can do to a gas engine. A squirt of fresh gas is far better.
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Offline Kbeitz

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Re: Kohler engine won't start
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2017, 01:28:35 am »
Leave the starting fluid for the diesel, that is one of the worst things you can do to a gas engine. A squirt of fresh gas is far better.

I agree 100 percent...
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Offline Chuck White

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Re: Kohler engine won't start
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2017, 06:49:17 am »
Look at the O ring seal in the fuel line quick disconnect. O ring shrinks due to alcohol gas allowing the fuel pump to suck air instead of gas..Had this problem more than once..

I'd bet that this is your problem!

I always keep spare O-Rings for the quick disconnect!
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Offline tacks Y

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Re: Kohler engine won't start
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2017, 07:47:34 am »
You guys running gas with alcohol????

Offline Chuck White

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Re: Kohler engine won't start
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2017, 08:46:51 am »
Not Me!!!!    :o

I only run 91 octane!   :P
~Chuck~
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Offline sealark37

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Re: Kohler engine won't start
« Reply #13 on: May 05, 2017, 08:54:40 am »
If you are running fuel containing ethanol, you should find a source of ethanol-free fuel.  This gas is called "recreational fuel" in some areas.  It is easily found in areas near lakes and rivers.  It cost more per gallon, but it avoids many problems caused by alcohol in your fuel system.  Ethanol has no place in engines that don't run daily.   Regards, Clark

Offline Magicman

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Re: Kohler engine won't start
« Reply #14 on: May 05, 2017, 09:46:53 am »
Quote
Ethanol has no place in engines that don't run daily.
Ethanol has no place in engines/gasoline.....period.
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Offline paul case

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Re: Kohler engine won't start
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2017, 03:47:01 pm »
Quote
Ethanol has no place in engines that don't run daily.
Ethanol has no place in engines/gasoline.....period.

All the more reason to saw something every day , Right?

PC
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Offline Grandedog

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Re: Kohler engine won't start
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2017, 05:15:56 pm »
Howdy,
That engine should be able to throw a code for you. You turn the key on and off twice, and then turn it back on. Red light should start flashing to give code. The owners manual should have the failure code descriptions.
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Offline dgdrls

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Re: Kohler engine won't start
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2017, 08:17:59 am »
Blasted ethanol I hate the stuff and never use it in my small engines.
I use the Marine Blue Stabil if I know the mill is gonna sit (which it has been).

I also add a little 2 stroke oil to the fuel when I'm running, just to add a little
"slippery" to the fuel. 

D

Offline Saga Dan

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Re: Kohler engine won't start
« Reply #18 on: August 25, 2017, 07:13:23 pm »
Was there any solution to the problem with this engine not starting?  I am interested since I am experiencing the same type of issue with my ECH749 26.5hp engine.  Have not used it for a while...went to use it the other day and it started up like a champ and ran for a couple minutes then died.  I am guessing there was fuel in the electronic pump that allowed things to run for a little bit...    I did not have any fuel in the tank while stored and started with fresh gas now.  Engine cranks,  I have spark, can get it to run momentarily when adding 50:1 mix to the cylinders through plug hole.  Electric pump does cycle on for a couple seconds upon key turn.  Never used anything except 91 octane non-ethanol gas.  Originally checked fuel lines use to pulse pump on valve cover.  Blew gas back to tank checked tank and pickups.  Installed new filter.  Sucked gas back up to just the bottom of new filter.  Pulse pump was dry at this point, cranked and no change to fuel level in filter.  Removed pump and the diaphragm looked to be dry maybe a chance the "seal" was not functioning.  Added RTV sealant to top and bottom around exterior of diaphragm, reinstalled.  Still nothing past pulse pump at this point.  Called Woodmizer and they walked me through a few different things to try then deduced it was the pulse pump that needed to be replaced.  Continued to tinker and decided to do a little bit more "work".  Removed the fuel line coming out of the pulse pump and cranked a little bit...  At this point I was able to get fuel to spray out of this one.  I was able to fill the fuel line to the electric pump...no change to fuel level in the line when the electric fuel pump cycles.  Oh and to make things more interesting my MIL light is burned out (new one should be here Monday) so it is difficult to know if there are any trouble codes being thrown.  Any suggestions or resolutions.
2014 LT40 Manual; XP346; XP395; Logosol M8

Offline Kbeitz

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Re: Kohler engine won't start
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2017, 08:13:45 pm »
Any time I get an engine with a gas problem I fill an old oil pump can with gas.
I pump gas in the carb when cranking. Then you can keep pumping the oil can
to keep the engine running until the gas  gets up to the carb. If everything's 
working it will sooner or later run on it's own.
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Offline POSTONLT40HD

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Re: Kohler engine won't start
« Reply #20 on: August 25, 2017, 08:17:08 pm »
Does this particular engine have the code light on it?
It it does it will help you determine your problem.

If the code light tells you the problem and you order the part and replace it, the computer will have to be reset for the engine to run properly.
I'm thinking......

Offline Savannahdan

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Re: Kohler engine won't start
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2017, 09:17:48 pm »
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Offline Saga Dan

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Re: Kohler engine won't start
« Reply #22 on: August 26, 2017, 02:35:39 pm »
The engine is fuel injected so I would have a bit of trouble finding the carburetor to squirt gas into...

Engine does have a light but it is currently burned out...  New on should be be here Monday.  That should help quite a bit, I hope.
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Offline Savannahdan

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Re: Kohler engine won't start
« Reply #23 on: August 26, 2017, 03:14:45 pm »
I had a problem with a Kohler engines solenoid having crud on it last year and wouldn't start.  Had to track things all the way from the gas tank to the solenoid and after cleaning it the thing ran like a top.
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Offline sawguy21

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Re: Kohler engine won't start
« Reply #24 on: August 26, 2017, 09:40:51 pm »
Carb or fuel injection, it still has an air intake. Another member had an elusive no start, turned out to be the throttle position sensor as I recall but I don't know how to test it.
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Offline Saga Dan

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Re: Kohler engine won't start
« Reply #25 on: August 29, 2017, 07:14:33 pm »
New malfunction indicator light (MIL) arrived today. I am getting a 0337 code for crankshaft position sensor. 

Removed the covers and first removed the minimal bit of surface rust on the sensor wheel teeth. 

Then as per the service manual. Tested points #4 and #13 on the black connector out of the ECU.  Very low reading about 12 ohms.  Tested at the crankshaft sensor and read 375ohms (within the specifications).  Tested the individual conductors and found they were good .03 ohms each from the ECU to the connection harness of the crank sensor.  Still no difference from the harness at ECU through the sensor.

Going to have to give Woodmizer a call again in the morning....
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Offline MartyParsons

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Re: Kohler engine won't start
« Reply #26 on: August 29, 2017, 07:35:12 pm »
Hello,
   Here are some things to check.
You can put a test light across the two wires on the MIL light if it is burnt out to get your code. I do understand you got yours working.
Possible causes listed in the manual.
1. Crank sensor
2. Crank position sensor circuit problem , Pin Circuits Black 4 and Black 13
3 Crank sensor/toothed Wheel Air Gap
4 Toothed Wheel
5 Flywheel Key Sheared
6 ECU

Service
If Fault code indicates a problem test as follows
1. Check mounting and air gap of sensor .020-0.70 mm  ( .008-.027in)
2 .Inspect wiring and connections
3.Check engine has resistor type spark plugs
4 Disconnect the black connector from ECU
5.  Connect Ohm Meter between # 4 and # 13 pin terminals. Resistance value of 325-395 at room temp should be obtained. If correct check mounting, air gap flywheel teeth ( damage, run out etc. )
6. Disconnect crank sensor from wiring harness, test resistance between terminals. 325-395 Ohms should be again be obtained.
a. if resistance is incorrect remove the screws securing the sensor to the mounting bracket and replace the sensor.
b. If the resistance in step 5 was incorrect, but the   sensor alone was correct then check the wire harness # 4 and # `13.   Fix issue and recheck.
7. once fault is found clear codes.

From the manual.

Hope this helps. Never seen an issue here.

Marty
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Offline POSTONLT40HD

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Re: Kohler engine won't start
« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2017, 07:59:18 pm »
My indicator light showed the crank shaft sensor to be a problem a few months back.

If Marty remembers,  I called and him and he said it was a soft code and just needs to be reset.

Marty talked be through a series of turning the key on and off and something else. But it worked and problem was solved.

Marty do you remember? Getting to where I can't remember everything.  :D



I'm thinking......

Offline MartyParsons

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Re: Kohler engine won't start
« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2017, 08:58:12 pm »
Yes, we must be close to the same age. Have no idea!?  :o
M
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Offline POSTONLT40HD

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Re: Kohler engine won't start
« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2017, 06:51:32 pm »
Yes, we must be close to the same age. Have no idea!?  :o
M

 :D :D :D
I'm thinking......

Offline BadgerJim

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Re: Kohler engine won't start
« Reply #30 on: September 26, 2017, 12:57:01 pm »
To follow up on this topic, the problem turned out to be the second fuel pump on this Kohler ECH749 fuel injected engine.  Woodmizer was of little help - they suggested taking it to a local small engine shop.  This engine has two fuel pumps: a mechanical one on the rocker cover and an electric one tucked way down on the mast side of the engine...almost impossible to get at and remove without moving the engine which I did not want to do and possibly affect alignment etc.

Finally found a very good local small engine man who is familiar with Kohler engines. He agreed it was the 12volt fuel pump and basically disassembled the front of the engine and was able to get it out without moving engine mounts.  Replaced it with a (expensive) new pump. He was fair on his labor charge.

Evidently the fuel injection is powered by a very low torque 12 v motor which is very prone to seizing up if not used for a period of time, even with fuel stabilizers added to the tank.  He said the thing to do is to empty the gas tank and run it dry until it stops. He also says always run fresh regular gas from a station that sells a lot of gas so it is less than 30 days old.  He says the problem with using the zero ethanol/higher priced recreational gas is that it has often been sitting in the station's tanks for a long time. Better to use fresh regular gas. Change the fuel filter annually.

The saw runs well now. Have a lot of logs to catch up on sawing.

I hope this helps others with this engine.


Offline drobertson

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Re: Kohler engine won't start
« Reply #31 on: September 26, 2017, 02:57:44 pm »
Glad you are running!  Years back, I was a big Kohler fan, of late, not near that much, to add around here, folks know, the 91 ethanol free is fresh fuel. No one likes unproductive days filled with PITA battles
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Offline woodman

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Re: Kohler engine won't start
« Reply #32 on: November 10, 2017, 10:16:22 pm »
  check to see if the muffler is grounded
Jim Cripanuk

Offline pineywoods

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Re: Kohler engine won't start
« Reply #33 on: November 10, 2017, 10:26:04 pm »
  check to see if the muffler is grounded
Will check that, un-grounded muffler should give a faulty O2 sensor code, but computers have been known to lie...
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club