My 1st MAJOR bid on a job....need guidance on this...

Started by 2StateTrigger, May 02, 2017, 10:45:15 PM

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2StateTrigger

Good evening all,

1st year rookie sawyer here and I'm seeking some guidance on a bid that I'm submitting in the very near future.  Hope this is the correct forum to post this question, if not please accept my apology here and relocate the topic to the correct area.

Potential client has 3 acres in heavily wood mountain area with a very nice house.  He needs to have 200-250 mature pine trees felled, limbed, and stacked into piles where they fall.  Access to the property is great.  Access on the property is decent as there are a few hard spots to get to but I can manage.  Trees are pine with heights topping out at estimated 60-70'.

Is there anyone here who's done a job such as this who can help me in coming to a decent bid where I'm not over-charging as well as not giving my services away?  Please chime in here.

Much thanks to those who reply.  Thank you in advance.
Molon Labe

sandsawmill14

how big dia are the trees ??? how steep is the slope  ??? around here the going rate is $100 to $125 per 1000 doyle for logging  but it can go up considerably depending on the terrain  :)
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

thecfarm

What have you got for equipment?
Stacked into piles where they fall? How long the logs? That will take time.
Also brush? It will look diffeant after you are done.
Make sure he's not one that wants it like a park when you are done.
Sounds like you won't be taking the logs out?
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

dgdrls

How close to the Very Nice House?
whats the expectation for the logs?
Get your proposal in writing with the clients sign-off first

D




2StateTrigger

Thanks for the replies.  Guess I should have been a little more forthcoming with info....

So I'm going to try to answer your questions in the order in which received...

How big?  They are approximately 50' in height and 30" diameter.

My equipment is Stihl 661 saw with 25" bar, a Branson 4720 tractor with bucket forks, and the meat between my ears.

The land owner wants the trees to be piled into small groups of 10-15 logs each pile in the areas in which they fell (meaning that he doesnt care where the piles are located).

Logs will not be taken out.  Owner wishes to use the logs in the future for firewood.  I'm of the opinion that he should at least consider selling a portion of the nicer logs to a local logger in order to recoup some of my fees.  I mean with 200 trees, all for firewood is one hell of a lot of firewood...

There are 4 or 5 large Ponderosas that are within 20' of some sort of structure or powerlines.  I'm ABSOLUTELY not willing to even touch those with any sort of power tool.  I've already informed the owner that those trees are going to have to be topped in order to bring them down.  I do not have the equipment, NOR the experience to do a proper and safe job for those trees.

So, hopefully someone can offer some guidance here on how I should bid this rather large job.  I've only got 3 more days to get my bid in....

SO, what do the great minds of wood think?  Help a noobie out here, PLEASE......
Molon Labe

Ron Wenrich

Most bids in buying the timber.  You're just providing the service of felling, bucking and stacking.  Your bid should be the estimated number of hours it will take to do the work times the cost per hour to do business.  Your profit factor should be reflected in your hourly cost factor. 

Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

mike_belben

You are gonna work long and hard on that job, possibly for months.  There will be challenges and problems you dont see coming.

If it were me, id convince this fellow that he will never get a chance to burn half this wood before it rots and thus paying me do it all now isnt prudent use of his money and id feel a little responsible for that.  That a stumpfarm out the bay window may not please his wife either.

Id propose an hourly rate and cutting say 2yrs worth of wood for him, or perhaps the minimum for an improved view or whatever his immediate thing is.  Then another cut next year or whenever he insists.

This way if the job is over your head, you dont have to walk away unpaid in total failure.  And also if you bid it all wrong, you get a chance to renegotiate the terms on your follow up.


You are going to want to go buy yourself a root grapple on the first day btw.  Between how many bolts youll need to stack and how much slash will be created.. I cant see how youd consider going in armed with just bucket forks.

Praise The Lord

square1

What does a cord of firewood sell for in the area?  How many cords is the owner going to end up with? I would shoot for 2/3 the value of the firewood and might settle for 1/2 if a majority of the terrain is easy. You said mountainous area which often doesn't equate with easy.

That being said, I think a per tree, or per hour price as suggested, would be a safer proposal.  If you contract for 200-250 trees and don't get there, is he going to pay for the ones he got?

The cynic in me thinks he knows he doesn't need that many trees for firewood (maybe he plans to sell firewood bundles <shrug>) but if he can get a contract for 200-250 trees and you can't fulfill it, you aren't getting paid and he'll have enough firewood to keep him warm for a long, long time.

nativewolf

Quote from: mike_belben on May 07, 2017, 01:59:48 AM
You are gonna work long and hard on that job, possibly for months.  There will be challenges and problems you dont see coming.

If it were me, id convince this fellow that he will never get a chance to burn half this wood before it rots and thus paying me do it all now isnt prudent use of his money and id feel a little responsible for that.  That a stumpfarm out the bay window may not please his wife either.

Id propose an hourly rate and cutting say 2yrs worth of wood for him, or perhaps the minimum for an improved view or whatever his immediate thing is.  Then another cut next year or whenever he insists.

This way if the job is over your head, you dont have to walk away unpaid in total failure.  And also if you bid it all wrong, you get a chance to renegotiate the terms on your follow up.


You are going to want to go buy yourself a root grapple on the first day btw.  Between how many bolts youll need to stack and how much slash will be created.. I cant see how youd consider going in armed with just bucket forks.

This set of suggestions is great, will keep you out of trouble.
Liking Walnut

Stan snider

Are you sure those 30 inchers are only 50 footers?

bdsmith

Also consider progress payments rather than a lump sum at the end of the contract. 
With a payment after so many trees, each of you can reconsider the timing/scope of the entire contract.

mike_belben

Did you take the job?

Id never consider a lump sum after im done deal with a stranger.  He could be dead by the time you finish for all anyone knows.
Praise The Lord

Ron Wenrich

I've bought timber as a procurement forester, and I've sold timber as a consulting forester.  All timber was paid for before cutting.   Paying after the cut asks the landowner to shoulder a bunch of risk vs taking a lump sum. 

Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

mike_belben

 Certainly a timber sale is different.  Its reasonable that the buyer pays before the product is touched. 

This case the landowner wanted the timber cut up and stacked for firewood thus there is no timber product for him to run off with.   In my opinion this is more of a labor contract whereby the landowner may be able to get all his trees cut whether he pays or not and the contractor shoulders all of the risk on payment default. 

If it had to be a pay on completion job id need to see the funds in escrow.
Praise The Lord