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Author Topic: New Cabin, fresh lumber, many bugs!  (Read 1537 times)

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Offline grouch

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Re: New Cabin, fresh lumber, many bugs!
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2017, 10:29:30 am »

 i wouldnt worry about the murphys oil soap i have probably used 500 gallons of it over the years for blade lube :) had it in my mouth and everywhere else :D i buy the 32oz bottles by the case when i can get it otherwise i buy the 16 oz bottles  :) if it would hurt you im pretty sure i would already be dead :o ::)

I was attempting to be funny. That label is pure marketing bovine excrement. In this universe, you can't have anything but "naturally derived ingredients". Something is either naturally derived or supernaturally derived. The most toxic man-made substance you can find is still "naturally derived" -- we're not supernatural and what we use to derive things from are not supernatural.

This goes to Ianab's and Don P's point above. People sometimes think natural is synonymous with good for you. It ain't necessarily so. Rattlesnakes and cobras are natural but their venom sure can ruin your health. There's just no substitute for thinking.


Randy Richy:
That MSDS provides sufficient information that you can evaluate the risk of the material for yourself. You can start with the name of the active ingredient: disodium (it's a salt with a pair of sodium ions stuck on there) octaborate (see boron -- the element -- and borax -- naturally occurring mineral as in 20 Mule Team Borax laundry soap; 8 stuck on there) tetrahydrate (the stuff likes water; 4 water molecules stuck on it). I don't see anything there that is likely to surreptitiously invade DNA molecules. Looks entirely inorganic so a different class of threat (in *general*, simpler to evaluate) compared to cyclic hydrocarbons.

Check out aspartame's (N-(L-α-Aspartyl)-L-phenylalanine, 1-methyl ester) or sarin's ((RS)-propan-2-yl methylphosphonofluoridate) structure. Those are organic (carbon-based) and so are you. Effects of such stuff inside you can be sudden or subtle. This is why long-term, scientific studies are performed.

I need to make a correction to my earlier comment to you about the use of pesticides on my place -- a pyrethrin based pesticide was used in my garage one year about 14 years ago to end a plague of fleas. It was record-setting hot and I let the dogs in there for relief. Their flea collars were totally ineffective against the horde produced by ~19 cats (a.k.a., flea factories). By the time I realized what was going on, you couldn't walk into the garage 20 ft (the length of 1 bay in it) without having ankles covered in bites and bugs; you'd have to brush them off.

A typical garage is already an environmental disaster-in-waiting, so I compared the threats from the fleas to the marginally increased threat of adding one more poison to the brew in the garage, and sprinkled pellets. Lost quite a few spiders but took care of the fleas. The pellets and the cats and the fleas are long since gone.

[Edit to add:]
When you want to know what a substance really is, add IUPAC to the trade name for it in your search. (Finding out what that stands for is left as an exercise for the curious).
Find something to do that interests you.

Offline Weekend_Sawyer

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Re: New Cabin, fresh lumber, many bugs!
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2017, 10:41:04 am »

I was exposed to Sarin Gas and crude oil fire fumes.  So since, I react poorly when around certain toxins.  So the purpose of my cabin is to be toxic free.  But I don't want to invite the bugs in either! 

You got my attention there, If you don't mind saying how were you exposed?
Jon
Imagine, Me a Tree Farmer.
Jon, Appalachian American Wannabe. ... and it looks like my dream will come true!

Offline Randy Richy

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Re: New Cabin, fresh lumber, many bugs!
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2017, 08:42:28 pm »
Heya Jon,  I was in the first Persian Gulf War and it was a toxic soup over there starting with all the vaccines, PB Pills, oil wells, pesticides, insecticides, depleted uranium, and our own unknowingly blowing up a depot which had sarin gas causing low level exposure in the downwind area.  So I got my little cabin and trying to do an organic garden while milling lumber for the extension all in an attempt to improve my health.  So my goal was to put nothing, zero in here that is toxic, whether natural, organic, man made or came from outer space!  :-)  So that is what started the thread - how to dry/process wood toxic free but keeping the bugs out.  Randy

There are more detailed articles, but this gives a nice short overview if you are interested:
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/573964/Did-razing-of-Iraqi-depot-expose-100000-US-troops-to-nerve-gas.html

Offline DDW_OR

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Re: New Cabin, fresh lumber, many bugs!
« Reply #23 on: May 02, 2017, 01:27:36 am »
.......I am getting the sense there is no approved solution in the Drying process to make things permanently bugs free - rather, it is a dynamic environment that requires constant attention/awareness.

I was hoping for something simple!  :-)

you could build your own kiln.
Refer-container, add a Central Boiler (or equivalent) as a heat source.
copy Yellowhammer's design.
TimberKing 2000 & Talon Sharpener, Mahindra 5520 4x4, Max22 4x4, Bobcat Excavator 331, E80, Multitek 1610EZ
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Offline Weekend_Sawyer

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Re: New Cabin, fresh lumber, many bugs!
« Reply #24 on: May 02, 2017, 05:59:09 am »
 Thank you for your service and I wish you great success in your cabin build.

Jon
Imagine, Me a Tree Farmer.
Jon, Appalachian American Wannabe. ... and it looks like my dream will come true!

Offline sandsawmill14

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Re: New Cabin, fresh lumber, many bugs!
« Reply #25 on: May 02, 2017, 08:01:26 am »
the key to using any chemical whether organic or just natural or man made is the residual time i know alot of farm chemicals are completely harmless once they dry as are most other chemicals. but the key word there is MOST so do be careful :) i wont use round up in the garden but almost everything bought at the store is raised  with it being used :-\  do some careful research first but treat you wood with something before you use it if you dont and the ppb dont get you the termites will :-\ if you are very sensitive to that kind of stuff you may have to hire the treatment done instead of doing it yourself as they fresh spray could cause major problems for you  :) the only other option i know of would be to use either concrete or steel construction ??? those little boogers pecker aint stiff enough to eat those ;D
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Offline WDH

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Re: New Cabin, fresh lumber, many bugs!
« Reply #26 on: May 02, 2017, 08:48:19 am »
The disodium octaborate tetrahydrate is likely the safest and least toxic treatment, it will provide the protection you need, and it is nontoxic to animals.

There is no magic bullet.  Otherwise, after an initial heat treatment, you will have to let the bugs do what they will.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5640SU, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Offline Randy Richy

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Re: New Cabin, fresh lumber, many bugs!
« Reply #27 on: May 02, 2017, 10:37:39 am »
Thank you so much everyone!

I guess everyone's advice comes down to:  Heat and Treat

So Nyle L53 and Tim-bur (DOT) seems the best advice for Heat and Treat for my situation.

Thanks again everyone!!!   

Offline kensfarm

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Re: New Cabin, fresh lumber, many bugs!
« Reply #28 on: May 17, 2017, 10:35:23 pm »
Maybe have someone else dry it for you..  a search for kiln drying in VA.  Has anyone built a lumber oven just to sanitize?  Thank you for your service.. hope you find the answers you need.   

Dozen+ VA listings here..

http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/directories/sdd.cgi?services=Kiln%20Drying&PAGE=5

1/2 dozen here

http://www.manta.com/mb_45_E01A508F_47/kiln_drying_of_lumber/virginia