Switching from .058 chain to .050 chain and not liking it!

[Ohio Logger]

Ever since I started in the woods about six years ago, I have been using .058 chain on my 20" and 28" bars on my Jonsered saws. Recently, I decided to switch to .050 simply because it is so much more common and easy to get around here. BUT, I am running a new Total 28" .050 bar with skiptooth chisel chain and I am not very impressed. Sems that it binds up in cuts a little easier and doesn't pull the chips out quite as well. Also seems to heat up more and not get the oil out to the end as well. I do all my own filing and have been able to take my chains right down to nothing on the teeth without losing much cutting performance, so I don't think that is the problem. I have read some theories on here and elsewhere that would say that my experience is possible, but haven't heard of anyone saying that .058 is better or worse than .050. Just wondering if any one else has switched and not liked it like I am.

[Dave Shepard]

I have run both, and have seen no difference. I run .050 now,  as that is what the Stihl chain is that is sold around here.

[Ohio Logger]

I know what you are saying. I don't see why it should make much difference, but it does seem to for me. I am going to go out and go over my saw with a fine tooth comb and see if there is something else that might be causing it. More puzzled than anything by it.

[OH logger]

as far as the oiling problem is that the same bar brand that you ran at 58 guage?

[Ohio Logger]

Yes I have run Total Pro bars almost exclusively.

[ladylake]

 
No way a .50 or a .58 can make a difference, I wish they would just make everything a .050 to keerp it simple.  teve

[CR888]

It makes a big difference in really hard woods. I only run 063 chain (even on my huskies) for this reason. Cutting softer species you won't notice a difference but noodle some Aussie hardwoods and the rails bind up quick. Stihl AU factory fits ALL new saws with 063 except models fitted with Picco. I made the mistake of buying 050 bars a few years ago and I don't use them anymore. Sell them & get 058/063 and you problem will hopefully disappear.

[Ohio Logger]

Interesting you say that, I am cutting down 30" Red and White oaks for timber. I am cutting fairly low as well so I would be getting into the root flares and that would cause some noodling effect. I had used it some back in the middle of the winter, mostly for bucking on the landing, and hadn't thought much about it other than the .050 is definitely more flexible. I don't have an exact figure but the bar is thinner by several thousandths, at least on Total brand. That would mean that the bar wouldn't be quite as wide to keep the same width chain in the cut, especially when cutting that root flare wood which tends to pull the chain around more. Keep the ideas coming. It did really surprise me to find that the .050 bar was actually thinner (it even surprised my dealer). You would have thought that they would use the same bar and just cut a different groove in it. I did wonder if another brand would be better. Maybe a Sugihara?

[chevytaHOE5674]

I've cut a lot of big hardwood (30-40"+) with .050 gauge 3/8 chain and never had any issues with binding or oiling. If the rails are binding up on you then you must be pinching, or prying on the saw while in the cut. Keep the oil hole cleaned out, turn the oiler up, keep the chain tight, and cut.

I've also milled quite a few mantles with a CSM with an .050 gauge chain which is all "noodling" and never had any adverse effects.

[CR888]

Milling is completely different to noodling. One you get long noodles cutting with the grain, milling you get dust cutting 90° to the grain. 050 would really be harsh on drive tangs too in hardwoods, they'd get a beating and pean over. Cutting soft species with 050 is fine and one would never notice a difference in most parts of the world. Conditions vary throughout the globe and what works for someone may not for another.

[chevytaHOE5674]

How is hardwood hard on the "drive tangs" that they get peaned over? They don't touch the wood, when in the bar the chain is riding on the bottoms of the cutters and tie straps, so the only place the "tang" of the drive link touches anything is the drive sprocket and maybe at the nose.

[HolmenTree]

I have a couple of Oregon 36" bars in .050 that I ran on my 066AV. No matter bucking, ripping or noodling in both soft and hardwood I never had any problems.

But I'll let you all in a little trick, like CR888 said drive links do wear down on their tips. The DL's job is to clear the kerf of the bar rails of chips and sawdust.

Of course there is always a layer of wood at the bottom of the bar kerf that the DL's can't reach and that constant friction on the tips of the DL's on that layer of wood, does wear or peen them off causing the hook in the DL to be less making it less efficient in chip clearing.

So my tip is, as long as sawchain maintenance history goes. When that hook in the drive link starts to wear, take your round file and make a few strokes to get some of that hook back. You don't even have to remove the chain from the saw.
After filing a little hook back into the front of the DL's your chain is back clearing the rail kerf efficiently again. ;)

[OH logger]

I have a couple of Oregon 36" bars in .050 that I ran on my 066AV. No matter bucking, ripping or noodling in both soft and hardwood I never had any problems.

But I'll let you all in a little trick, like CR888 said drive links do wear down on their tips. The DL's job is to clear the kerf of the bar rails of chips and sawdust.

Of course there is always a layer of wood at the bottom of the bar kerf that the DL's can't reach and that constant friction on the tips of the DL's on that layer of wood, does wear or peen them off causing the hook in the DL to be less making it less efficient in chip clearing.

So my tip is, as long as sawchain maintenance history goes. When that hook in the drive link starts to wear, take your round file and make a few strokes to get some of that hook back. You don't even have to remove the chain from the saw.
After filing a little hook back into the front of the DL's your chain is back clearing the rail kerf efficiently again. ;)

does that help to improve cutting efficiency and speed?? If so I feel foolish cause ive never looked at them that way

[HolmenTree]

Effective bar cleaning of chips and debris most definitely adds to cutting efficiency especially on longer guide bars.
Less friction ,heat and binding of the chain.

[CR888]

Many species I cut each day will sink in water like concrete. A saw turning 13K+ has a high chain speed, when you sink that into wood that is hard the tangs wear succnificantly faster in 050 than 063. I can cut soft species all day without any issue with 050. But most of the time that's not what I cut. I currently have a 16" b/c on a ported MS660 which I can bog with I finger after setting in the dawgs and gently lifting the handle...get it. One of the main issues with 050 is the chips getting stuck in the the rails and often near the nose. In short order the bar would get far too hot too touch. FWIW you will not ever find a 050 bar longer than 14/16"(which use Picco) hanging on the wall at ANY Stihl dealer in Australia. Same with Husky, they use 058. Aussie models from Stihl often have upgraded high output oilers and factory dual port mufflers on the bigger saws.

[HolmenTree]

I have run Stihl .050 33RS chain for 35 years on my Yamaha bike saw and never had a problem with damage to the drive links.
11 tooth  drive sprocket and the depth gauges filed down to .045
The wood it cuts is tough too as 90% of the time the wood is frozen solid.


 

[CR888]

Yeah but you run your bikesaw with the chain on backwards...haha! .....I know, it runs that way. I ain't gonna argue with the experts anymore, clearly I'm dead wrong and make up stories to pass my time.

[joe_indi]

Usually whether the chain is 50,58 or 63 it has the same cutters. Only the only difference is that the drive link is thicker or thinner. But if you have a guidebar that is for a 63 chain and you run a 50 chain on it there would be a amount of side play in the groove. The 50 chain would sway to left or right, slowing down the cut.Unless a matching guidebar for the chain is used the chain would not remain steady in the cut. The only area where the bar remains of uniform groove width in a replaceable nose, holds true for an Oregon, Carlton or Stihl, that I have seen. And the cutters are the same whether it's 33,35 or 36 in Stihl, A1,A2 or A3 in Carlton or 72,73 or 75 in Oregon

[HolmenTree]

Yeah but you run your bikesaw with the chain on backwards...haha! .....I know, it runs that way. I ain't gonna argue with the experts anymore, clearly I'm dead wrong and make up stories to pass my time.

CR888, if you look at my picture again you'll see the chain is rotating the right way. That chain in the pic is modified with the back of the cutters filed off so it looks backwards in relation to the depth gauges. ;)

Look at the bottom pic when I originally built the saw with the engine running backwards, the chain is on backwards.Talk about optimum chip flow on the down cut and smooth no push on the up cut ;D

Like I said earlier when your chain gets lots of wear file a small hook back into the drive links to help keep the chip flow through the bar groove and you'll have alot less problems. 


  

 

[HolmenTree]

CR888, here you go ;)
As I just posted on another thread here's 2 pics of me maintaining the drive links on a sawchain.
Normal wear on the leading edge hook of the drive links  greatly reduces efficient transfer of oil for lubrication and the removal of wood chips from the bar groove during cutting in a log kerf.

In the last pic look close at the drive link I filed a new hook into and compare to the other wore down ones.


  

 

[HolmenTree]

Wouldn't be a complete comparison without showing what the drive links look like when new.


 


 

[HolmenTree]

A second look here at that worn Stihl 33RSF full skip chain.  The above picture of the new piece of chain was not from the full skip loops I was running.
Here's the correct new piece in the first 2 pics below, comparing the new and worn chain.

Last pic is a Oregon .063 75LG I ran on my 090AV-36" that milled lumber on my Alaskan sawmill.  The drive link hooks need re filing too.

All these chains are about 20 years old long before the LGX(anti vibe) and 35RSC(Comfort) redesigned chains. As you'll notice no C on the Stihl cutters and no one barb arrow between the Oregon's cutter rivets.


  

  

 

[Stoneyacrefarm]

Thanks for posting this Holmen tree.
I told the neighbor yesterday I would look at his saw for him and i think this is his problem.
He has a 359 husky that won't clear chips out well.
I was going to give him a new chain to try but it looks like I can fix him up with your advice.
His chain looks like your picture.

[HolmenTree]

Stoneyacrefarm, your welcome. Experiment with different size of round files depending on size your chain is.
I used a 13/64" file on that one drive link in my above picture, I just grabbed the first file on my bench for the demo.
For that full size 3/8 chain I could have used a bigger 7/32" file and not go so deep.
The drive sprocket pushes on the back of the drive link. But the hook side still needs the flat part up near the side link to mesh with the bars sprocket nose for support, that goes for the drive sprocket too. So don't make a too tall of a hook in the drive link.

[joe_indi]

Willard, thank you for the post and pictures for filing the drivelinks. I will be passing this on to my customers.
This is going to save quite a few rim sprockets, clutch drums and bar noses