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Author Topic: Bar Heat and Oil - Chain Type?  (Read 734 times)

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Offline TNTRanch

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Bar Heat and Oil - Chain Type?
« on: April 15, 2017, 08:59:28 am »
Good Morning, New Guy here.  I have been reading and learning for a few weeks from ya'll and have a question that I can't find directly answered.  I have a new Alaskan Mill and Mini Mill and mostly Oak on my property.  I have a good 'ol Stihl 034 and just purchased a new Stihl 661.  (I really like it!)  661 is currently set up with a 20" bar and 3/8" .063 standard RS Stihl chain - I believe that is a full-tooth chain.  I have already depressed the pin and adjusted the oil to it's maximum possible setting.  (can only put about 1/2 tank of mix in or I run out of oil)  I am ripping 6"-7" wide oak boards.  My problem: I am getting too much heat in the bar/chain and the bar is showing color.  I have run the saw gently, fast for 10 seconds and then backed of (to simulate a typical cross cut) stopped every 2' and revved the saw to try and add oil to bar/chain.  No avail, still getting bar hot. Chains have been new, I have touched them up. They cut like they are very sharp.  I have a 30" bar that I want to use, but don't want to use it until I have the heat problem solved.  Question:  Is the full-tooth chain filed at 30 degrees too much and creating the heat?  (I intend to get milling chain, but was using what came with the saw to get started) My 034 is having the same bar heat issue on the mini mill as well. Will going to a full-skip or milling chain solve the heat issue?  I had read in one of the posts where some guys use the standard chain with no issues?  I could really enjoy this if I could get this heat deal worked out. This site and all of your information/knowledge has been invaluable!  Thanks for the help! TNT
Granberg Alaskan and Mini Mill - Antique Stihl 034 and New Stihl 661.

Offline paul case

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Re: Bar Heat and Oil - Chain Type?
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2017, 09:29:20 am »
Welcome to the forum TNTRanch.

What part of MO do you call home?

I have 2 660's and neither will use the whole tank of oil for a tank of gas. I have used them ripping a big log in half with a 36'' bar and have never noticed the bar getting hot. I use 1/2 atf and 1/2 sae30 motor oil. I would try taking the screw out of the oiler adjustment and see if it was plugged with some debris?

PC
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Offline SineWave

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Re: Bar Heat and Oil - Chain Type?
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2017, 05:38:10 pm »
I have a Stihl MS361 that has never oiled right since I got it new. It would use maybe 1/4 or 1/8 tank of oil for each tank of fuel mix, even with the adjustment all the way up.

I took it back under warranty, and they put a new oiler into it, but it wasn't much better even after that. I probably should have taken it back again, but I wasn't getting any signs of bar overheating or wear, so I just said to heck with it.

In the winter when the bar oil gets extra thick, I thin it down with ATF. In the summer, I just use it. I guess the consolation is that I don't spend as much on bar oil anymore!

If you can't get it figured out, you might want to post your question on the "Chainsaw" subforum at ArboristSite.com ... there are some real chainsaw gurus over there.

Offline PC-Urban-Sawyer

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Re: Bar Heat and Oil - Chain Type?
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2017, 06:39:02 pm »
Or you could talk to the chainsaw experts here at the forestry forum's Chainsaw forum: http://www.forestryforum.com/board/index.php?board=9.0

Offline richhiway

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Re: Bar Heat and Oil - Chain Type?
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2017, 08:23:27 pm »
that sounds like more then enough oil. I would try a 10 degree ripping chain before I tried anything else.
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Offline TNTRanch

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Re: Bar Heat and Oil - Chain Type?
« Reply #5 on: April 16, 2017, 12:57:59 am »
Thanks for the responses.  I'm near Houston, MO.  The 661's have an oil adjustment pin that can be pushed in and allows you to put more oil to the bar.  Because of the heating, I did that.  Before that, I was using just under a tank of oil per tank of fuel mix.  I agree that the oil isn't the issue at this point, it's the heat.  It was a green oak, but the rip was only 6"-7" wide.  From all i have read I should be able to walk right through it.  The saw is absolutely capable.  My next try is a full-skip chain and a ripping chain.  Where would you get your ripping chain from?  Granberg has a 3 week delay and I'd like to get milling.   Paul, what chain were you using when you ripped the big log? 
Granberg Alaskan and Mini Mill - Antique Stihl 034 and New Stihl 661.

Offline BUGGUTZ

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Re: Bar Heat and Oil - Chain Type?
« Reply #6 on: April 16, 2017, 09:31:39 pm »
Is it a new bar? Chain and bar a match? Too much force through the cut?
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Offline CTYank

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Re: Bar Heat and Oil - Chain Type?
« Reply #7 on: April 17, 2017, 12:36:04 am »
My best guess is that the chains need sharpening. For milling they must be razor-sharp, and kept that way. From your description, sounds like you've some filing to do.  IME, if you're going to do much milling, you want to invest the effort in becoming a wizard chain-filer, or close. Next-best guess is chains too snug.

One chain that works well for me, milling 2'+ hickory & sugar maple, is WoodlandPro semi-chisel, full-skip. Off the reel, notably sharper than many. Still needs preparatory filing, and depth-gauge lowering.
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Offline SineWave

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Re: Bar Heat and Oil - Chain Type?
« Reply #8 on: April 17, 2017, 05:15:04 am »
My next try is a full-skip chain and a ripping chain.  Where would you get your ripping chain from?  Granberg has a 3 week delay and I'd like to get milling.

Have you tried Bailey's?

Offline TNTRanch

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Re: Bar Heat and Oil - Chain Type?
« Reply #9 on: April 17, 2017, 11:28:19 am »
Brand new bar and chain, .063x3/8" matched and file touched up before starting.  I have tried everything, going very slow, cutting a little stopping for a little. I believe the chain tension is correct, not too tight, moves easily by hand, pulls away from the bar and goes back into place when released, but not like a banjo string!  They are full-tooth chains and I am using Stihl bar oil. I will try Bailey's - Thanks
Granberg Alaskan and Mini Mill - Antique Stihl 034 and New Stihl 661.

Offline TNTRanch

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Re: Bar Heat and Oil - Chain Type?
« Reply #10 on: April 17, 2017, 12:28:49 pm »
I would really like to know from someone with experience ripping, if the milling chains create less heat before I spend the money.  Understanding they have to be sharp etc. 
Granberg Alaskan and Mini Mill - Antique Stihl 034 and New Stihl 661.

Offline moodnacreek

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Re: Bar Heat and Oil - Chain Type?
« Reply #11 on: April 17, 2017, 05:52:46 pm »
Had the same problem with huskys in normal cross cutting. Drilling out the bar hole larger helps.

Offline DelawhereJoe

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Re: Bar Heat and Oil - Chain Type?
« Reply #12 on: April 17, 2017, 05:59:52 pm »
Are you using the orange jug stihl bar oil ? My 362 doesn't pump that stuff well, only 1/4 - 3/8 oil to tank of fuel, the tractor supply oil goes 2/3 - 3/4 both turned all the way up.
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Offline Brucer

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Re: Bar Heat and Oil - Chain Type?
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2017, 10:34:05 pm »
After trying various chains (on a 70 cc machine), I tried making my own. Regular full comp chain, but filed straight across with a lot more tooth angle (further from the vertical). I also set my depth gauges to 0.035. It was amazing what a difference that made. It helps a lot to have a shop style chain grinder, but initially I used a hand-held grinder.

Use kerf wedges (hardwood, just a little thicker than your kerf, tapered at on end). Insert them on both sides of the cut after you've sawn about 4 feet, and then every 4 feet afterwards. They keep the kerf from closing on the chain on the back of the bar. It helps to paint them bright red so you can find them easily when they fall in the sawdust as you remove the slab/lumber.
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