Skid Steer vs Telehandler vs ???

[Bigshooter]

In the near future I will be logging my property. It will be mostly big fir about 30" and up at the butt. I will be getting a faller buddy of mine to drop the trees and he will be topping them and cutting them to length for my mill. About 20' 6" and some at 10' 6" lengths.
Now, I need to get these to my mill and I would like to load them with the same machine that I pulled them out of the forest with.
I am not sure if a Skid Steer would be good enough. They have low clearance for in the bush. But they would feed the mill quickly and run boards fast also.
A Telehandler would work also but IMO is a bit big in the bush. But has great ground clearance.
A tractor with a grapple front and rear is also a great option.
I have thought about a skidder or excavator but neither can run boards.
So what have you guys experienced? Is there a machine that can handle all of these tasks?

[longtime lurker]

How far is it from stump to sawmill?
Whats the general plan overall - are you thinking this is a permanent operation or is it an in and out job where you do what you need then sell the machine after?
Terrain issues?

There's no one machine thats perfect for all tasks, and mostly in my experience the better a machine is at one task then the more limited it is at every other operation. So at some point you have to choose which is going to be the task that you need to achieve most often/most efficiently and get a machine that can do that well while still being able to manage a few other things at an ok sort of level. Skid steers are the most versatile thing in terms of range of attachments etc etc... sadly along with all that versatility comes the ability to do absolutely nothing well.

Closest thing to a good allrounder for the sawmil/logging industry I've ever seen was a valmet backhoe with a grapple for the hoe. Seemed to have more ground clearance then everyhting similar ive seen... could lift and could pull.

Or a Bell logger... they can do just about everything with the right attachments and they're fast and fun as well. I wants me one of them just to have it there to play with

[Bert]

If the skid is relatively short Id say the skidsteer is the best bet for all around. Tracks will make it go.

[Ljohnsaw]

It will get down to your terrain.  How hilly?  I've got this:

 

And my terrain is about twice the recommended slope for it.  I carefully maneuver it around and find it really useful.  I can pop roots with the 5' forks as well as move boulders.  One of the forks had a large hole cut through it that I hang a log tong from with works really well.  With the load leveling ability, I can work the side slopes ok.  However, it is a really heavy beast (26k+) and if the ground is a little bit muddy, I slide - especially if I have a big log.  With the 3 steering modes, I've had to use them to get out of difficult situations - slid sideways into tree trunks or boulders.  I can lift 9k close in but pretty limited at full extension (about 1k).  It is great to put up high in a tree to help the tree go where I want it - my woods are real thick and need to drop in very narrow spots.  Also good at de-limbing trees while they are still standing.  I can use the tongs to yank out the bottom if I get hung up.  I've carried 20'+ logs jousting-style from the tongs and the butt under the fork carriage.  Longer than that I usually drive in reverse and drag the end of it.

[mills]

Not sure of the weight and terrain your dealing with, but a decent size tractor with a front end loader and possibly a winch

... or...

If it's not too steep, a mid size wheel loader.

[Bigshooter]

The terrain is not too bad, just muddy sometimes and slight grades. I don't have too far to travel to the mill say under 300 feet. I want the machine to be able to handle 4000 lbs. Some of the logs are in that weight range. I want to offer this as a service with my mill for future jobs.

[Bigshooter]

How far is it from stump to sawmill?
Whats the general plan overall - are you thinking this is a permanent operation or is it an in and out job where you do what you need then sell the machine after?
Terrain issues?

There's no one machine thats perfect for all tasks, and mostly in my experience the better a machine is at one task then the more limited it is at every other operation. So at some point you have to choose which is going to be the task that you need to achieve most often/most efficiently and get a machine that can do that well while still being able to manage a few other things at an ok sort of level. Skid steers are the most versatile thing in terms of range of attachments etc etc... sadly along with all that versatility comes the ability to do absolutely nothing well.



Closest thing to a good allrounder for the sawmil/logging industry I've ever seen was a valmet backhoe with a grapple for the hoe. Seemed to have more ground clearance then everyhting similar ive seen... could lift and could pull.

Or a Bell logger... they can do just about everything with the right attachments and they're fast and fun as well. I wants me one of them just to have it there to play with

What is a Bell loader?

[barbender]

Most skid steers will struggle with the size of logs you are handling. When they are rated for 4000 pounds lift capacity, that doesn't mean while driving downhill and bouncing over stumps, either ;)

[mike_belben]

I think a big 4wd tractor with forks and a hydraulic thumb upfront and a skidding winch out back will be the least disappointing machine for your specs. Front axle pivot, diff lock and ag tires will make the difference over the limitations posed by the others.  My bobcat and my articulated forklift both suck in the woods. 

[BargeMonkey]

 I'm impressed to see someone logging with a Lull, 👍
For most skidsteers on rubber the weight goes like this, a 2000lb rated machine will pick and carry 2k at max lift on level ground, they almost will all pick 2x that amount when they tip. Statistics show that skidsteer are the biggest killers on the construction and farm side for iron, to many guys bypass a seat belt or never lock the arms out.
We feed a small sawmill with our skidsteers, 1 is a 1750 class, the other a 2200 class on track,you need a BIG skidsteer to start moving 30" spruce that's 20' long. What are your long term goals and what's your budget ? I see ALOT of guys buy 1 machine and think it's a do all, we have purposely stayed away from the big skidsteer because they aren't handy, they don't have the ground clearance and even a 1yd bucket is alot for them.
What size trailer / truck do you have to move with ? How far do you plan on moving ? A tractor with a winch is the most versatile but they do suck for working near a mill, we tried it yrs ago. I watch used iron, you could buy a nice low hour medium sized skidsteer and a decent older jack for less than 30k for the pair in running take to the woods shape, you can't buy a new 50hp blue tractor all guarded up for that.

[longtime lurker]

A Bell Logger is... Well there ain't much quite like it.

Bell is a South African manufacturer of earthmoving, forestry, and agricultural equipment.
The loggers are a family of hydrostatic tricycle forestry machines. They're not real big, not real fast, but extremely agile, can handle grades, and wet stuff.
Mostly get used for CTL, pulp and thinning work. Configurations include forklift, grapple arrangements, hotsaws, feller buncher etc. On a short haul say 300', with logs they can handle they are the cheapest machine to run per ton of production in the world. Lift capacity ranges from about 2000 to 7000 lb depending on configuration.

US model designations are different, member oldseabee used to be involved with them and would be the guy for that information.

[North River Energy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTfvGcU3r0s

[teakwood]

double DanG, these are good operators!! A big teakcompany here has 3 or 4 of them, they are super fast and versatile on the landing!! loading and unloading and sorting, but absolutely useless in the woods, see in the video at 4.30 how they slip, unless you have graveled leveled roads everywhere 

[Wudman]

double DanG, these are good operators!! A big teakcompany here has 3 or 4 of them, they are super fast and versatile on the landing!! loading and unloading and sorting, but absolutely useless in the woods, see in the video at 4.30 how they slip, unless you have graveled leveled roads everywhere

The 3 wheelers need a set of chains to run in the woods.  Twenty five years ago they were very common in the woods here.  Most were being used with a felling head.  The Bells and Morbarks were both very popular here.  Chained up, the Bell could walk across wet ground and cut trees that a skidder couldn't follow and pull.  I had one fellow that worked by himself with a Morbark.  He had a felling head and a grapple for the machine.  He could skid and load with the grapple.  Working by himself (including driving) he would consistently produce over 100 cords per week.  I wish we still had the 3 wheelers.  They were excellent machines for plantation thinning.  The downside.....It could get a little warm in there with an engine right behind you and the frame serving as the hydraulic tank.

Wudman   

[Bigshooter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GTfvGcU3r0s

What a neat piece of equipment, looks like it wouldn't tear up the ground that bad with a 3rd wheel setup. Plus it can spin in one place.

[Riwaka]

A lot of unknowns in your planned project. Can you air dry the timber on site under tarps or will you have to transport it to a kiln facility?
1)A reasonable size track crawler loader (I wish some machinery had a single universal term that made google searches easy). This type of machine can have specialist logging winches to pull logs up ravines or push trees over that get hung up when felling etc. The loader part can lift logs onto the mill deck and pallet forks (or the log forks can load board stacks). For any crawler track loader you need to fully understand the transmission - what goes wrong and who can do a good fix if something goers wrong.
2)A blade bulldozer can level a site or build a loading platform that the logs can be rolled across to the saw deck. Blade bulldozer with logging winch etc.
Hire a  crane truck with forks could load boards stacks.
3) A blade runner excavator with heavy duty undercarriage, versatile machine, can be used on other jobs when not small scale milling. Put grapple on excavator for hauling and loading log on deck, fork for loading board stacks. (or use grapple to load boards by using good quality straps/ chains & spreader bar to load a board stack)

https://youtu.be/tgLzHn6QIq0  (fork on excavator)

https://youtu.be/N7iXUeJFU44  (Kobelco blade runner)

4) Reasonable quality log skidder and take the front blade off and put a demountable (to make engine bay servicing easier) heavy duty tractor loader on it, if you or the local engineering/ hydraulics shop can. Get the logging winch (and maybe a grapple) on the skidder. Small blade and swivel quick hitch log/ pallet forks for loader. Due to reduced forward visibility put a wireless camera on front of loader so you can see on an in-cab screen where the blade /forks are headed.

[teakwood]

Lopet's  junior welte would be the perfekt machine for such a application.

https://forestryforum.com/board/index.php/topic,84972.msg1299673.html#msg1299673

[teakwood]

double DanG, these are good operators!! A big teakcompany here has 3 or 4 of them, they are super fast and versatile on the landing!! loading and unloading and sorting, but absolutely useless in the woods, see in the video at 4.30 how they slip, unless you have graveled leveled roads everywhere

The 3 wheelers need a set of chains to run in the woods.  Twenty five years ago they were very common in the woods here.  Most were being used with a felling head.  The Bells and Morbarks were both very popular here.  Chained up, the Bell could walk across wet ground and cut trees that a skidder couldn't follow and pull.  I had one fellow that worked by himself with a Morbark.  He had a felling head and a grapple for the machine.  He could skid and load with the grapple.  Working by himself (including driving) he would consistently produce over 100 cords per week.  I wish we still had the 3 wheelers.  They were excellent machines for plantation thinning.  The downside.....It could get a little warm in there with an engine right behind you and the frame serving as the hydraulic tank.

Wudman   

thanks for clearing that up, i didn't know they could be used in the woods, probably has to be fairly leveled ground??
I had a semi and lowboy for some years and did lots of transports for that big teakcompany, and we absolutely hated it when we had to move the tri wheelers, they where a pita to load and unload, very dangerous because of the crazy third wheel that you can't control.

[Puffergas]

I would never part with my skid steer BUT they can get crazy in the woods. 

[lopet]

teakwood, check out some Bell cutter youTube videos. You'll be amazed how much wood a good operator can lay down. Some unit were available with tracks  for the swamp loggers. Food controlled drive wheels and a bunch of hand controlled valves on each side . Some guys are really good at it, but you almost need a dangle head to keep it from tipping over. ;D

[teakwood]

Food controlled drive wheels  ??? ???. i had to read that twice until i figured :D :D

[teakwood]

Impressive slope!! I would't want to go sideways with my skidder on that slope

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXZdvH9DWrQ

[thecfarm]

 I saw a shear one on the land next to mine. That was 20 years ago. Than saw the same type on a school trip for the grand son. Have not seen one for years.

[BargeMonkey]

 My cousin bought one out of Milton Cat, he couldn't try it, test it, even sit in the cab, they loaded it on the trailer. 😂 the last guy who came up to "test" it out drove it thru the fence and did alot of damage, the story I got was it was loaded for fire sale price, he didnt like it and sold it a few months later for 2x his money. Schafers down by Hancock still has 1 ? And they have a 5 point harness in the cab because it's routinely rolled back over by the skidder working on steep ground, they actually look like fun. See more of them down PA and south. I don't know the story on the parts for them ? I would imagine the .404 ones are miserable for bending bars. That picture was off a FB loggers group about 2 months ago, I guess most guys load them on a trailer with a skidder on either side to keep them from sliding off ??? Either way the ride wasn't pleasant 😂

 

[mike_belben]

Reckon they need a tailwheel lockout for loading