The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:




TimberKing Sawmills




Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Forest Products Industry Insurance


Norwood Industries Inc.


Sawmill & Woodlot Magazine



Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades


Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

Woodshax Outdoor Vending Solutions

FARMA

Forestry Forum Tool Box

Author Topic: Gutters and roof issues  (Read 1061 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline tareece

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 63
  • Age: 53
  • Location: Advance NC
  • Gender: Male
  • See all.. learn all..Live large
Gutters and roof issues
« on: April 12, 2017, 08:48:58 pm »
While cleaning out my gutters I noticed several of my 3-4 yr old metal roof screws backing out or all but out...
   This was more than a little unnerving but after researching a bit, it's pretty normal.
     Now it's figuring out what to do about it..

  New screws and silicone sealant?
   Ideas?


Todd Reece
Lover of many things. Experienced in most... expert in few

Offline Larry

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5571
  • Age: 68
  • Location: NW Arkansas
  • Gender: Male
Re: Gutters and roof issues
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2017, 09:56:46 pm »
Exact same problem.  I called the roofer that put the metal on and he came out and just screwed them back down.  Its been a few years now and I have a few that have backed out again.  Not near as many as the first time. 

My metal was screwed to OSB which according to the manufacture is an approved method.  I believe other wise.

Hope somebody has a fix.  I think I know what the real fix is and its going to be expensive.

Larry

Nine out of ten trees recommend wood for your building project.

Offline newoodguy78

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 304
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Southwest New Hampshire
  • Gender: Male
Re: Gutters and roof issues
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2017, 11:34:25 pm »
Tareece
What kind of substrate do you have? I'm guessing osb or plywood.
They make what they call a nail replacement screw, they have a larger diameter shaft to the screw. They bite into more of the wood Unfortunately if the screws are only going into osb or plywood (unless it's 3/4) this backing out will be an ongoing problem. The only real fix is to take the roofing off run purlins of a minimum thickness of 1 inch and reapply the roofing.
 Or if there is access to the bottom side of the roof deck take the screws out and put blocks on the inside between the rafters and screw through the metal, sheathing and into the blocking. This requires two people that can work together very well because it tends to be very aggravating staying in sync. Unfortunately you have a problem that is not easy to fix for the long term.

Please do yourself a favor and don't use silicone on your roof it will only create further and bigger problems down the road. If you have to use a sealant in a tube use a polyurethane based type.

Offline Briankinley2004

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 146
  • Location: Louisiana
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
Re: Gutters and roof issues
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2017, 11:52:19 pm »
If it's into a substrate the screws didn't penetrate try a longer screw. You can also use np1 or 3m5200 in the hole and put screw back in. It will be there til cows come home once it sets up. Especially the 5200. Just make sure oil is not on surfaces

Offline Briankinley2004

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 146
  • Location: Louisiana
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
Re: Gutters and roof issues
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2017, 11:54:24 pm »
Also there should be a stitch screw at the lap in first pic. If they didn't use tacky tape at seam now is a good time to add it

Offline sprucebunny

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3707
  • Age: 63
  • Location: Northern NH
  • Gender: Female
Re: Gutters and roof issues
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2017, 06:05:47 am »
My steel roof is screwed to 1" spruce strapping and some of the screws have backed out so I don't think it's entirely the fault of the substrate (˝" osb or plywood )

There's quite a bit of movement of the metal when outdoor temperatures change. The popping and clicking noises tell me so !!

A bigger diameter screw sounds like a good solution.
MS193, MS192 and an 026  Weeding and Thinning. Gilbert Champion sawmill

Offline Kbeitz

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 5002
  • Age: 65
  • Location: Millville, Pa.
  • Gender: Male
  • Never enough time...
    • My Hobbies
Re: Gutters and roof issues
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2017, 06:34:10 am »
Put some only on the screws thread...

Loctite® PL® 510 Wood
Collector and builder of many things.
I have a
machine shop
Wood work shop
And a Weld shop
And now a saw mill
and a bunch of new forum friends.

Offline LeeB

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 7024
  • Age: 57
  • Location: Yellville Arkansas
  • Gender: Male
  • proud to be a TEXAN in Arkansas
Re: Gutters and roof issues
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2017, 06:46:02 am »
Check in the attic for water damage. Everywhere the screw is up is a place for water to get in. If there has been much water, the wood may be rotted and the screw may strip the hole. Went through this with the shop in my last house. I sure miss my shop.  :'(
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, Ford 851 tractor, JD 3032 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton and 2005 1 ton Dodge 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Offline Czech_Made

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 616
Re: Gutters and roof issues
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2017, 07:01:47 am »
Dang, better get up on the barn and check  >:(

Offline gspren

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 1509
  • Age: 65
  • Location: Airville, PA & Fenwick, DE
  • Gender: Male
Re: Gutters and roof issues
« Reply #9 on: April 13, 2017, 07:41:25 am »
If it's into a substrate the screws didn't penetrate try a longer screw. You can also use np1 or 3m5200 in the hole and put screw back in. It will be there til cows come home once it sets up. Especially the 5200. Just make sure oil is not on surfaces
  The 5200 is a "marine" adhesive/sealant approved for below the waterline, good stuff, get a one ounce tube and try it, that will do a bunch of screws, after a tube is opened you can't normally save it for months.
Stihl 041, 044 & 261, JD 2355 4X4 w/fel, JD 620, Yamaha Kodiak 400 & trailer, Kubota 400 RTV,  P&M OWB, 75 acres to play.

Offline pineywoods

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 4785
  • Age: 81
  • Location: Marion, Louisiana
  • Gender: Male
  • Engineering analysis-just sittin thinkin about it
Re: Gutters and roof issues
« Reply #10 on: April 13, 2017, 09:59:08 am »
You can bet water is leaking around those backed out screws, rotting the wood around the screws. I have metal roofing on all my buildings. I didn't put the screw on the flat part, used 2 inch long screws on the ridge tops. Never had any problems with screws backing out. Another difference, do NOT predrill the holes for the screws, use the self tapping screws..Roofing suppliers all recommend putting the screws through the flat surface, say the rubber washers will stop leaking...Your photo says it all...
1995 Wood Mizer LT 40, Liquid cooled kawasaki,homebuilt hydraulics. Homebuilt solar dry kiln.  Woodmaster 718 planner, Kubota M4700 with homemade forks and winch, stihl  028, 029, Ms390
100k bd ft club

Offline scsmith42

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 4324
  • Age: 57
  • Location: New Hill, NC
  • Gender: Male
  • He who dies with the most toys... WINS!!!
Re: Gutters and roof issues
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2017, 10:16:06 am »
Todd, I had some loose screws on a barn that we roofed about 9 years ago, but nothing as loose as yours.

My foreman and I simply spent about 30 minutes on the roof snugging up every screw. I don't expect it to repeat.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Offline moodnacreek

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 98
  • Location: orange county n.y.
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
Re: Gutters and roof issues
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2017, 12:55:34 pm »
The first thing you do concerning rib metal roofing is don't read the instructions. Next; do not buy long sheets and third; screw thru the highs . Most of what you see is wrong. Way up northoalong the boarder you will see some done right.  In very windy areas there may be reason to screw the lows at the edge.  Long sheets will jack the screws out. Screwing thru the lows means the seal has to be absolutely perfect and if they leak a tiny bit it will rust around the screw  hole . Screwed thru the highs does not have to seal.

Offline snowstorm

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 3377
  • Location: maine
  • Gender: Male
Re: Gutters and roof issues
« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2017, 02:38:45 pm »
And the company that makes the steel roofing says only screw on the flat. Been there and done that. Mine didn't leak for 5 yes. Then replaced screws with longer ones. Then with a larger Dia. Still leaks a little

Offline Farmerjw

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 289
  • Age: 54
  • Location: NorthWestern, Indiana
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm so far behind I think I am in first place.
Re: Gutters and roof issues
« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2017, 02:43:40 pm »
When we put our steel roof on the house they told me to screw roofs on the high ribs and walls on the flats.  Those screws would really upset me. 
Premier Bovine Scatologist

Offline jwilly3879

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 734
  • Age: 70
  • Location: Adirondacks
  • Gender: Male
Re: Gutters and roof issues
« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2017, 04:58:37 pm »
I have worked on many metal roofs typically when the screws seem to back out it is due to condensation in the attic space. In the winter the condensation freezes on the screws that penetrate the sheathing forming little icicles. When it warms up the ice melts and the water is absorbed by the sheathing and will rot around the screw.

The roof on one side of a lakefront camp had the entire side loosen up to the point it would flap in the wind. On that one we removed the metal and moved it down 1 1/2" and re attached it using shorter screws (originally 2" screws through 5/8 ply). We also added ventilation to the attic. 10years have passed and the screws are still solid.

 

Offline Briankinley2004

  • Full Member x2
  • ***
  • Posts: 146
  • Location: Louisiana
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
Re: Gutters and roof issues
« Reply #16 on: April 14, 2017, 11:45:30 pm »
We normally stack all the sheets on the same run on ground. Then we pre drill all the sheets with a bit slightly larger than the screw diameter. This lets expansions occur without messing with screws and also assures screws are straight in appearance on the roof. Also helps with the screws not leaning trying to cut through the metal. None of this will help the o p though at least not on this roof

Offline jwilly3879

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 734
  • Age: 70
  • Location: Adirondacks
  • Gender: Male
Re: Gutters and roof issues
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2017, 08:06:35 am »
I predrill also, using double ended bits that I get at the auto body repair shop.

All the screws line up nicely when seen from the ground and they start much easier.

Offline newoodguy78

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 304
  • Age: 39
  • Location: Southwest New Hampshire
  • Gender: Male
Re: Gutters and roof issues
« Reply #18 on: April 15, 2017, 10:08:35 pm »
X3 on the pre drilling not only does it look better it makes starting the screws way easier