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Author Topic: Shooting a fence line  (Read 803 times)

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Offline LeeB

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Shooting a fence line
« on: April 10, 2017, 08:28:09 am »
Got a question for you surveyors out there. I need to put in some fence around my property. It has already been surveyed some time back before I bought it and the pins are in place but the place id pretty densely vegetated and up and down. Hiring a surveyor to shoot the lines for me is going to be a costly enterprise. I'm thinking seriously of buying a used theodolite and doing it myself. Any suggestions on what to buy? Will a Leica T3000 do what I need? Any suggestions? I don't want something to keep forever, only to do what I neeed done and then I'll resell it but also don't want to have to cash in the retirement fund to buy one. I tried pacing it off with a compass and 2 of the lines worked out ok like that because there was enough old fence line and other markers that I could stay on line but the back side of the place is a whole other story.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, Ford 851 tractor, JD 3032 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton and 2005 1 ton Dodge 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Offline DelawhereJoe

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Re: Shooting a fence line
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2017, 10:52:45 am »
Talking about shooting a fence line would a rifle scope and a tripod work for you, just add a rifle to the bottom of it and take out some coyotes while your at it.
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Online Joe Hillmann

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Re: Shooting a fence line
« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2017, 10:53:50 am »
How far apart are the markers?

Offline LeeB

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Re: Shooting a fence line
« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2017, 11:00:38 am »
Quarter sections for the most part. One set is a half section.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, Ford 851 tractor, JD 3032 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton and 2005 1 ton Dodge 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Online pineywoods

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Re: Shooting a fence line
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2017, 11:08:43 am »
Lee, I have had pretty good results using a good hand-held gps if the lines are mostly n-s or e-w.Not as good as a new survey, but close enough in most cases.. I don't have the hills and hollers you do, but lots of impenetrable briar patches and thickets. Document the gps co-ordinates and transfer them to google earth, comes in handy...
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Offline LeeB

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Re: Shooting a fence line
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2017, 11:10:10 am »
Talking about shooting a fence line would a rifle scope and a tripod work for you, just add a rifle to the bottom of it and take out some coyotes while your at it.

I have thought of that but don't know how I would line it up.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, Ford 851 tractor, JD 3032 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton and 2005 1 ton Dodge 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Offline Raider Bill

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Re: Shooting a fence line
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2017, 11:13:12 am »
Lee, I have had pretty good results using a good hand-held gps if the lines are mostly n-s or e-w.Not as good as a new survey, but close enough in most cases.. I don't have the hills and hollers you do, but lots of impenetrable briar patches and thickets. Document the gps co-ordinates and transfer them to google earth, comes in handy...

This is what I did. Worked real well found some old pins although I didn't transfer anything to google.
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Offline LeeB

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Re: Shooting a fence line
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2017, 11:17:34 am »
Need to buy one and learn how to use it. The one I have is an old Garmin and I never have learned to use it. It's 15 y.o. at least.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, Ford 851 tractor, JD 3032 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton and 2005 1 ton Dodge 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Offline sandhills

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Re: Shooting a fence line
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2017, 11:29:50 am »
Lee, is the vegetation too thick to string a wire out over the hills?  I've went by that a lot of times but only had hills in my way, stand at the highest spot and eyeball it down the wire each direction, or put something tall on the hill to go from, then move to the next hill.  I wasn't going through trees or anything though, seems I always have one or the other  ::).

Offline TKehl

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Re: Shooting a fence line
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2017, 11:43:35 am »
Is the issue how much to clear on either side for your fence?  I like to clear 10' either side so I can brushhog sprouts as much as possible.  A little extra wouldn't hurt in case I'm off a bit.  Then run one wire and stretch it to see if any adjustments are needed.

I've also taken about 20' of PVC pipe painted orange or pink and strapped that to an old corner post (good line post or tree near good line post) to help get sighted over hills.  At least keeps me in the ballpark.  A ballon or two doesn't hurt either.

If too steep for a tractor, I've got nothing.  We have some good hills, but the only sections I can't take a tractor are short.
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Offline LeeB

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Re: Shooting a fence line
« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2017, 11:50:20 am »
I can get a 4 wheeler into some of it but is mostly too thick and in parts it's too steep. Lindy says I need to come off the cash and just call the surveyor out and get it done right and legal. Mamma speaks.....
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, Ford 851 tractor, JD 3032 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton and 2005 1 ton Dodge 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Offline Raider Bill

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Re: Shooting a fence line
« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2017, 02:28:09 pm »
Need to buy one and learn how to use it. The one I have is an old Garmin and I never have learned to use it. It's 15 y.o. at least.

Luckily, A friend had a nice one and knew how to use it!

How many acres? What's a survey cost?
Kubota L-4200, Ford 8N, S-10 4WD Beater truck, Chainsaw, Bush Hog, couple ATV's and 141 acres of trees I'm not sure what to do with but I sure do have fun and enjoy being in the woods!
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Offline Texas Ranger

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Re: Shooting a fence line
« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2017, 03:46:36 pm »
We have 80 acres south of Marshall that we have the same problem, sort of.  We have one new survey line and an old survey on neighbors land.  We are considering having a finished survey to sell the property.  The land is to tough for this old forester.
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Online Corley5

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Re: Shooting a fence line
« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2017, 04:33:56 pm »
  If the corners are established and registered and all a surveyor has to do is shoot in straight lines that shouldn't be too bad.  Establishing lost corners is expensive.  We've worked with a local surveyor on a couple occasions clearing the line for him so he could shoot it.  That saved $$$.
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Offline LeeB

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Re: Shooting a fence line
« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2017, 09:29:01 pm »
$4250 to blaze and flag fence lines and file a new plat. Less than I thought but still a big chunk.  It's 179 acres and oddball shaped.

TR, I've used these guys before and they are very good and professional. They are from Marshal. Want their contact info?
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, Ford 851 tractor, JD 3032 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton and 2005 1 ton Dodge 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Offline dgdrls

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Re: Shooting a fence line
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2017, 09:38:52 pm »
Listen to Mama, get the surveyor who did the work
and another local to give you a cost, ask for inter-visible points on line,

Have the lines "greened-up" yet?  if not go fast or wait until winter again

And yes a T-3000 would be helpful, however no on-board distance measurement system.

d



Offline Texas Ranger

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Re: Shooting a fence line
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2017, 10:32:06 pm »
LeeB have talked with the guy from Marshall, he is on here, some.   They reran the line on the west end to correct errors, just not sure we can afford to make that move.
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Offline chevytaHOE5674

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Re: Shooting a fence line
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2017, 10:41:52 pm »
I just had a 1/2 mile in an L shape staked and ribboned between 2 known corners and one that needed to be located. 75% was through dense woods, the other 25% was overgrown field; he put stakes every ~300 feet, steel pin on the located corner, new caps on the other "old" steel pins, made me a nice map, and registered at the county clerks office. The grand total was 300 bucks. He did 3/4 of a mile of the same situation 2 years back for 500 bucks.

Offline clearcut

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Re: Shooting a fence line
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2017, 11:21:09 pm »
There is a iOS app called Theodolite that might work. $6 should not impact the retirement fund too heavy. I shot a few lines witn it, and it worked well. It may meet your needs. There are a couple of similar free apps. I mounted my phone to a tripod.

There is a free Android app called Dioptra that claims to do the same.

Offline LeeB

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Re: Shooting a fence line
« Reply #19 on: April 11, 2017, 03:14:47 am »
Thanks clearcut. I'll have to check that out. I'll likely still go with the professional survey but the app will be interesting. How does it actually allow you to shoot a line?
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, Ford 851 tractor, JD 3032 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton and 2005 1 ton Dodge 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Offline Kbeitz

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Re: Shooting a fence line
« Reply #20 on: April 11, 2017, 07:19:29 am »
I use a laser  at night.
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Offline LeeB

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Re: Shooting a fence line
« Reply #21 on: April 11, 2017, 07:52:30 am »
But, but, but....... There's MONSTERS out at night.  :D Don't know that I want to try traipsing 2 1/2 mile through the woods at night trying to mark out a fence line. Would be a good idea for open and flat terrain though.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, Ford 851 tractor, JD 3032 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton and 2005 1 ton Dodge 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: Shooting a fence line
« Reply #22 on: April 11, 2017, 07:55:20 am »
   Monsters, smontsters... You've got the laser to protect yourself if old Sasquatch gets after you distract him like a big old housekitty. :D

(I will admit you probably have more dangerous snakes out there than in PA.)
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Offline LeeB

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Re: Shooting a fence line
« Reply #23 on: April 11, 2017, 08:19:57 am »
Obviously you sir have not watched the beef jerky commercials on tv.  :D
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, Ford 851 tractor, JD 3032 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton and 2005 1 ton Dodge 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Offline LeeB

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Re: Shooting a fence line
« Reply #24 on: April 11, 2017, 10:44:17 am »
There is a iOS app called Theodolite that might work. $6 should not impact the retirement fund too heavy. I shot a few lines witn it, and it worked well. It may meet your needs. There are a couple of similar free apps. I mounted my phone to a tripod.

There is a free Android app called Dioptra that claims to do the same.

Does this app require cell reception to work? May not do me any good if it does.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, Ford 851 tractor, JD 3032 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton and 2005 1 ton Dodge 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Offline Larry

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Re: Shooting a fence line
« Reply #25 on: April 11, 2017, 11:01:11 am »
Putting a fence on the property line in Arkansas?  That's an interesting new concept.  Some Yankee musta thought up that idea. :D :D
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Offline LeeB

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Re: Shooting a fence line
« Reply #26 on: April 11, 2017, 11:08:01 am »
Guess yo're right Larry. What was I thinking? Just string it out and hope it's on my side or the real owner doesn't catch on. Not the way I operate.
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, Ford 851 tractor, JD 3032 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton and 2005 1 ton Dodge 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

Offline Larry

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Re: Shooting a fence line
« Reply #27 on: April 11, 2017, 12:02:05 pm »
Just a teasing.  The fences on my property were all built by previous owners and none are on the property line.  One wanders off a 100 yards on the neighbors ground.  An California investment bank bought that property and wanted me to move the fence.  Since I don't need or want a fence I gave them the fence....they still weren't happy. :D

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Offline Raider Bill

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Re: Shooting a fence line
« Reply #28 on: April 11, 2017, 12:02:45 pm »
Guess yo're right Larry. What was I thinking? Just string it out and hope it's on my side or the real owner doesn't catch on. Not the way I operate.

That's what the past owner of a part of my land did. Seems her motto was if in doubt put the fence on the other guys land. In some areas she was 50+ feet over.
We bought our land at about the same time. She started fencing from day 1. One Sunday morning several of the local Menfolk came up to talk to the gol DanGed Yankee Florida Boy that was stringing fence on their land. They were NOT happy people. All were armed and not shy about me seeing that. Told me if I didn't stop I could get burned out and if I was lucky they'd maybe let me get out of the house first.
We got it worked out once they saw how nice of a guy I am. ;D
Kubota L-4200, Ford 8N, S-10 4WD Beater truck, Chainsaw, Bush Hog, couple ATV's and 141 acres of trees I'm not sure what to do with but I sure do have fun and enjoy being in the woods!
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Offline petefrom bearswamp

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Re: Shooting a fence line
« Reply #29 on: April 11, 2017, 07:58:30 pm »
A method used here in NY by the nysdec was as follows.
Bear in mind this was when i was young and now the litigious society may require more accurate results.
It was used to establish state land boundaries.
We worked in chains.
Say you have a line 10 chains long (660 feet)
Both corners have been set by a surveyor.
We used a staff compass and used the bearing given on the survey map.
Working on the compass bearing we set temporary posts every measured chain until 10 chains was reached.
This was usually fairly close to the corner.
We measured the distance to the corner at say 40 feet with no regard to the usually negligible angle..
this means that every chain or 1/10th of the distance is 40 divided by 10 so at every temporary post we measured the appropriate distance and set a more permanent marker.
The first one 4' then 8' then 12' and so on.
then the line was blazed and painted.
Pretty darned close.
Many miles of State land was delineated in this way.
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Offline clearcut

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Re: Shooting a fence line
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2017, 08:57:59 pm »
The Theodolite app uses the phone's camera to view in the distance, and the screen as a display. You line up crosshairs up and down and left and right on the objective. The phone's GPS gives the bearing.

It's easier with 2 people, one to sight and the other to hold a sighting rod. I used a piece of PVC with electrical tape wrapped around.

The website for the app is:

     http://hrtapps.com/theodolite/

Regarding a cell connection, from the developer:

Quote
Does Theodolite work without access to the internet?
Most of Theodolite's features will work without access to the internet, except for online maps, e-mail export, and location services for wifi-only devices (wifi-only devices are iPads and iPods lacking GPS hardware and 3G/4G cellular hardware). iPhones and iPads with GPS hardware can get location data without an internet connection, however it will take longer for the on-board GPS hardware to function in a standalone mode without help from internet databases to speed refinement.

When using a GPS-enabled iOS device without an internet connection, allow extra time (tens of seconds, or a minute) for the device to acquire an initial position fix. Once the initial position is locked in, subsequent position updates will behave normally.

Offline dgdrls

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Re: Shooting a fence line
« Reply #31 on: April 11, 2017, 09:13:22 pm »
The Theodolite app uses the phone's camera to view in the distance, and the screen as a display. You line up crosshairs up and down and left and right on the objective. The phone's GPS gives the bearing.

It's easier with 2 people, one to sight and the other to hold a sighting rod. I used a piece of PVC with electrical tape wrapped around.

The website for the app is:

     http://hrtapps.com/theodolite/

Regarding a cell connection, from the developer:

Quote
Does Theodolite work without access to the internet?
Most of Theodolite's features will work without access to the internet, except for online maps, e-mail export, and location services for wifi-only devices (wifi-only devices are iPads and iPods lacking GPS hardware and 3G/4G cellular hardware). iPhones and iPads with GPS hardware can get location data without an internet connection, however it will take longer for the on-board GPS hardware to function in a standalone mode without help from internet databases to speed refinement.

When using a GPS-enabled iOS device without an internet connection, allow extra time (tens of seconds, or a minute) for the device to acquire an initial position fix. Once the initial position is locked in, subsequent position updates will behave normally.


I'd be interested to see how well that App performs by locating the new set points with survey grade instrumentation and making the comps.

D