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Logging with a small dozer?

Started by gman98, April 04, 2017, 10:37:22 PM

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gman98

Hello guys, as some of you who follow some of my posts may know, I'm looking at getting into logging part time.  The only problem I have is I need a machine to yard my wood with.  I initially was looking for a skidder but am now starting to consider some other options.  I am finding quite a few small dozers (Deere 350's and 450's) for sale for a reasonable price.  I was wondering how many of you guys logs with dozers and what you think of using them over a skidder?  This is a machine I'll be using year round, including in our 3-4 feet of snow in the winter.

Thanks
Forest technician and part time equipment operator.  Looking to get set up with some logging equipment of my own.

mike_belben

Im logging my property with a wide-pad komatsu d31p-18 and no winch.. I hook chains to the blade and back out, itll do a pair of 30ft long 18" dbh oaks at a time, ive done 55ft whole tree with some struggle.  It is slow however i can cross a swamp and sink less than a person, nevermind a skidder.  I also use it to forward my limbs out for firewood, thats been handy.











I would absolutely consider a dozer for a small timer without a bunch of money in the bank.  If logging is slow and you must earn, a dozer can do other jobs.  No one ever said hey how much to build me a pond or stump this pasture to the guy with just a skidder.  Ive done my ponds, culverts, drainage trenching, road, slab sites and logging with one machine.

Where they do suffer is in big rocks and high stumps.. It torques the rails and pads pretty hard. Skidder could just walk over, and definitely pull wood out faster.  If youll take any stumping jobs consider the biggest dozer you can transport. a root rake is very helpful for land clearing and drainage.   I recommend case machines because they have power to both tracks in a turn.  Makes a difference.. Especially in slippery conditions when youve got to turn up a hill while heavy.  Remember a 6 way blade, while indeed awesome,  is not for brute force.. If youre gonna do a lot of hardwood stumping go with outside arms and a semi U blade with sharp corners for severing fiber and roots.
Praise The Lord

mad murdock

How much ground do you intend to log?  What kind of access do you have on the place? Long skids are a real drag(pun intended) and very slow!  Can be done with a smaller dozer, depending on a lot of variables, can be made to work. No  comparison to rubber tired either on a skidder or a newer 4wd diesel tractor.  Only place a cat outdoes  skidder is on real steep ground, or you are talking a Cat 527 tracked grapple skidder.
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

snowstorm

The trouble with a dozer around here is we have 3 rocks on top of 4. The whole state is a rock pile

BurkettvilleBob

   I've got a 450c JD with a winch and arch on it and it will move a good hitch of wood, but as has been mentioned, it's not very pleasant to drive over rocks. It's great in the winter when there is enough snow to cover the rocks and fill in the low spots, I think it would have trouble in 3-4 feet of snow, but a small skidder probably has to work pretty hard in those conditions too. One nice thing is the width and maneuverability, you can sneak through some pretty tight spots. One problem is even with an arch, the butt of the log isn't very high off the ground and any mud you encounter is going to be all over the logs.

   They're still not cheap to buy, I paid 11,500 for mine, I got a 7k bulldozer with with a 4k winch and arch. The pins and bushings are worn, front idlers are worn out, sprockets, rolls and pads are good, but someday I'm going to have to throw some money at it ( like anything). Long story short, it's good for me, I'm using it for myself, I can push dirt, make a mess of my door yard, haul wood, but I wouldn't want to use it to make a living. Unless your great uncle Eddy is going to give you one, or you find one for a song ( with a winch) I'd keep looking for a skidder.

Corley5

Forestry tires are expensive :(  Under carriage parts for steel tracked machines are REALLY expensive and there's much more involved than changing a tire.
Burnt Gunpowder is the Smell Of Freedom

lynde37avery

 

 



 


i use a 450c a lot. it really works well. steep ground, building roads. just a job with not much more than like 300 yards for a skid then it starts to take a while. i also have a small timberjack thats helpful in the longer skidding.
Detroit WHAT?

Hans2017

I just finished a project skidding the steeper ground with my dozer. Worked well but slow. The logs were kind of a mess as no arch or winch. If the skid distance isn't to far it should work great. I used the dozer or make and maintain the skid trails also cleared a few food plots for the landowner which was a big hit. The dozer may help you get some other wood lots with it's the ability to do other projects for the landowners.

BargeMonkey

 Most guys who handcut down here bunch to the skidder /forwarder with a dozer. It's great at times for short skids but I would go broke cutting average wood if I had to skid with one. Undercarriage life is 1/2 on a woods dozer in the rock, especially with an high arch. A dozer with sore feet is asking for trouble in the woods, I lost a track off my 450G to the inside and couldn't get it split, had to literally hook onto the cab and roll it halfway on its side to get the track off and on again. How long are your skids ? How much wood do you plan on cutting ? Trying to go fulltime with just a dozer is going to be painful. 😂

snowstorm

around here in the early 60's it was 420..440...1010... and 2010 deere dozers pulling 4ft wood on a trailer loaded by hand. then when the 350 came out they could be had with a roto boom loader. some mounted to the back of the 350 others on a trailer. that was pretty modern. that all changed in the late 60's when the 440 skidder started to show up. the 440 came out in 1965. those thing would fly through the woods and no more hand loading a trailer or scoot. lets pick on a 450c just because i have had one for 30 yrs. things you will break . it isnt if its when and in the woods when will come quicker. rear cross beam will wear the beam and where it goes thru the track frame. the front if its the early thin one. that either breaks if your lucky only the goofy steel bushings and bolts. the holes will wear then the bushings cant hold it in place. i have a fix for that. the 2 bolts that go into the side of the track frame same thing. the side frames will break. they all did it. clutch housing bolts that go thru the side frame. if your not lucky it also breaks the clutch housing 

lshobie

i had a dozer with a forestry winch on it - it would drag great and do good work around the property as well.  I sold it because it can't do what a skidder does, time is money and they don't work near as fast as a skidder.     If you intend to do some real work in there then buy a skidder and get the work done, then sell the skidder and get the dozer to play with - dozers are fun bet they doze...skidders skid.

Also, like was said earlier if you have any rock on your property - even soft ball size rock in gravel  it'll tear your kidneys apart...probably the main reason i got rid of it.  And look at the cost to run and maintain....both cost but dozers wear expensive parts every time they move - big money for an undercarriage.  Most times property owners can only afford dozers with 40 percent or less undercarriage....big money to repair.
John Deere 440 Skidder, C5 Treefarmer,  Metavic Forwarder, Massey 2500 Forklift, Hyundai HL730 Wheel Loader, Woodmizer LT40, Valley Edger,  Alaskan Mill, Huskys, Stihls, and echos.

snowstorm

every time the tracks squeak it costs $1

Rick Alger

I read a university study years ago (can't find it now) that concluded the least expensive way to move wood was a wheeled skidder. No grapples then. The next least expensive was a horse. Next was a farm tracter, and last was a crawler.

Maine logger88

I pulled about 4 or 5 cord with a dozer once and if I never pull another I'll be fine with that
79 TJ 225 81 JD 540B Husky and Jonsered saws

woodmaker

For years ,we pulled enough firewood for my father and myself with an allis -chalmers h -3 with a winch(no arch) but we didnt use it for much else,so every time you wanted to use it,you had to mess with the carb. It worked ok,but not great.About 10 years ago,my father and uncle sat two parts jd 350's side by side in my shop,took the best parts from each,and made one working one.It had a 4-1 bucket,which worked well for bucking up fire wood,and we backed out of the woods with the logs in the air to help keep it clean. It wasnt really practical ,but for a small volume,it worked ok. Last year,I went out to drag an 18" oak that had been toppled by wind.I lost a track in the rough stuff( ledge covered with forest litter) and it took me the better part of a day to get it back on,even with 305 year of experience in working on them. Thats when I went looking for a skidder.
franklin q80,builtrite 40,husky 372,sachs dolmar 123, dozers,excavators,loaders,tri-axle dump trucks ,autocar tractor with dump,flatbed and detachable trailers, and 8  f350 diesels

woodmaker

Sorry,typo.Sometimes it feels like i have 305 years of experience,but its only 35.
franklin q80,builtrite 40,husky 372,sachs dolmar 123, dozers,excavators,loaders,tri-axle dump trucks ,autocar tractor with dump,flatbed and detachable trailers, and 8  f350 diesels

Stoneyacrefarm

I have pulled hundreds of cords of wood with a tractor and winch.
Have owned a skidder for almost a month now.
You will never see me pulling firewood with a tractor again.
There is absolutely no comparison.
I also own an excavator with a thumb and a blade.
In my opinion it is one of the most versatile pieces of equipment you could own.
Having both pieces allow me to do a lot more than I ever could before.
Work hard. Be rewarded.

Ed_K

 Steel on the ground cost $$$$$$$, and they eat chainsaws for some reason  ;D .
Ed K

BargeMonkey

 I see guys running 700H-J's down south cutting wood on long skids and I shake my head, I don't know how they are making any money. My father talks about yrs ago buying 2x complete 450 undercarriage's for 10k  bucks, they have actually come down a little but but good luck. My Timbco is starting to get sore feet, Daw track in Germantown told me 23-25k. I've been looking for another one for ME in the woods, my 450G gets stolen all the time for the brush jobs, you've got to be so careful when buying used. I shy away from anything that's been in the woods it's whole life. We are having horrible issues with one of our J series right now, I'm slowly losing faith in deere products.
A mini excavator with a thumb and blade is probably the handiest machine we have. We looked at a new 160 kobelco blade runner before we bought this new 160 deere, I was impressed how well that machine would push with a 6way and still be able to put it on a tag trailer, all your manufactures beefed up excavator classes and my dad still thinks that 160 we have goes on a tag trailer, 😂

mike_belben

Quote from: BargeMonkey on April 14, 2017, 08:09:31 PM
I see guys running 700H-J's down south cutting wood on long skids and I shake my head, I don't know how they are making any money.


Its all clay down here and it rains thru winter, skidder cant operate alot of the time at all.  Summer is all ticks and snakes, plus half the loggers are farmers first so come spring theyre in the fields.  Dozer pays when youre the only one hauling sawlogs in.






Youll notice theyre a little short on timber
Praise The Lord

LeeB

Quote from: mike_belben on April 14, 2017, 11:56:33 PM
Quote from: BargeMonkey on April 14, 2017, 08:09:31 PM
I see guys running 700H-J's down south cutting wood on long skids and I shake my head, I don't know how they are making any money.


Its all clay down here and it rains thru winter, skidder cant operate alot of the time at all.  Summer is all ticks and snakes, plus half the loggers are farmers first so come spring theyre in the fields.  Dozer pays when youre the only one hauling sawlogs in.






Youll notice theyre a little short on timber


You might want to fill in your bio so we know where down here is.  ;)
'98 LT40HDD/Lombardini, Case 580L, Cat D4C, JD 3032 tractor, JD 5410 tractor, Husky 346, 372 and 562XP's. Stihl MS180 and MS361, 1998 and 2006 3/4 Ton 5.9 Cummins 4x4's, 1989 Dodge D100 w/ 318, and a 1966 Chevy C60 w/ dump bed.

longtime lurker

I've played a lot with small dozers, and owned a few. They have their place: you can go places no skidder could ever get to, and drag out logs a small skidder would baulk at on the way home. So long as you weren't in a hurry.

I'd never own another one. Skidders are faster, and time is money. Don't think I'd ever buy another cable skidder for the same reason - too slow. I still got dozers.. just not babies.

If you really need a dozer get a real one not a toy. There is no substitute for tonnage and horsepower when it comes to dozers. In this game 6's are handy and 7's are handier, 8's are big enough to be comfortable.
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

Hans2017

The type of wood also makes a big difference. If the type of cutting is high volume of wood but low price a dozer won't make economic sense. So far my best system seems to be my dozer to get the trees to the open and then a farm tractor and winch to get to the landing. This makes for double handling
And is only feasible for high value timber. The last spot we cut 46 trees brought 29,000 on the landing. Also there are no rocks here to speak of.

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