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Kohler Engine is a Nightmare

Started by POSTON WIDEHEAD, April 01, 2017, 09:46:30 PM

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POSTON WIDEHEAD

Kohler EFI 29hp

Today was the 3rd time in less than a year we have installed a new Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) on my engine.
the first time was last April 18th, the second time was this past January 26th and now today.

I have a Kohler mechanic that makes house calls now.  8)

After the January 26th episode, the engine started running rough 5 days ago. I made my calls and set up a house call with my mechanic but kept on sawing.....spitting, sputtering, smoking and back firing.

The code light will not throw up a fault code for the TPS for some reason but did throw the code up for the crank shaft sensor needing to be reset. The engine would hardly run but after the reset, it was back to running at about 95%.

Thanks to Marty for helping me reset the crank shaft and reset the ECU. He took time out of his day to do this over the phone from Pennsylvania. Resetting can be done with out the software.

We installed the new TPS this afternoon...take 15 minutes...set the throttle, let the software set the TPS and ECU and I'm now back at 100% on my codes except for 1 thing.

For some reason the exhaust sounds like a baffle loose inside. Will order a new muffler Monday.
Kohler is making the TPS part good under their warranty

Hopefully things will be OK for a while....but who knows.....this engine has drove me crazy!

I tried to buy the software through the Kohler dealer but Kohler won't sell it to the general public or a Kohler engine owner.

There is a tractor place a few miles away that sells lawn equipment with these EFI engines. They had to order the software this week because the new engines on some of their equipment need updates before they can be sold.

I heard out west that the farmers have a law suit against John Deere because they are unable to work on their new tractors. You have to have software to set or reset parts on these new tractors.
Its a racket if ya ask me.....but I keep getting lucky with help from different people and I appreciate it.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

Brucer

Dare I use the word ... lemon?

When I bought my first mill in 2005, the Kohler EFI engine had only been available on WM mills for a year or so. I was pretty skeptical about hanging a computer on a portable mill, but I didn't have much choice (other than forking out $4000 extra for a diesel). Our local WM outlet wasn't selling the carburetor version of that engine because it had icing problems in the winter in our climate.

I was pleasantly surprised at how reliable the engine was -- starting on the first turn of the key even in -10° C (14° F) winter. I had no concerns when I upgraded to a new mill the following year with the same engine. That's been running just fine for a little over 2500 hours now.

The only issue I had with it was in January this year, when I fired it up for the first time in 3 months. I had to crank it repeatedly and it would fire and die, over and over. Eventually it would kick over, and run just fine. Next day, same thing. Then it occurred to me ... I'd filled the tank in the summer (and yes I put conditioner in it). Thing is, in these parts they sell a special cold weather gasoline blend in the winter season -- it has a lot more butane in the mix to help with those cold starts. As soon as I put a new tank of gas on the mill, it started up just fine.

So from my point of view, it's been a great engine.




As for software upgrades on machines, if you read the fine print on most farm equipment, you'll discover that you don't actually own the software that's required to operate the machine. You also aren't allowed to modify or reverse engineer the code. This does not bode well for the future.

I just read a case where someone bought a fancy new computerized home security system several years ago. The manufacturer was bought out by a competitor, and eventually the model was discontinued. Then the system stopped working. It seems it required a periodic update to the software and would stop working if it went too long without being updated. Since it was no longer supported, the system couldn't be updated and was useless. Sorry.

This may well become the trend in all forms of computerized hardware >:(.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Another thing to think about.....if anyone thinks NON-ethanol gas has no ethanol in it, think again.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

scleigh

You dont think the petroleum folks would lie to us do ya? :D

starmac

I can see your concerns, but think about all the time you have saved not having to adjust the carb. lol
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

fishpharmer

I see a diesel mill in your future. :-\
Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
Lucas 618 with 50" slabber
WoodmizerLT-40 Super Hydraulic
Deere 5065E mfwd w/553 loader

The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

Ianab

Of course there is always the open source option,

http://megasquirt.info/

Of course if there is an inherent defect with the TPS sensor, then a generic ECU isn't going to help.

But engine ECUs can be reverse engineered and generic ones built.  The same technology the big guys uses soon finds it's way into general use,
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

warren46

Better than diesel, go electric.  No software, no injectors.  Just push the button and go.
Warren E. Johnson
Timber Harvester 36HTE25, John Deere 300b backhoe/loader.

sprucebunny

I read somewhere that 8 or 9 States have passed "Right to Repair" laws in an attempt to slow down this silliness.
I don't know if it will make a difference but it might be a small step.

There have more computer/sensor related problems with things like my Ford 7.3 diesel than mechanical problems. Pretty stupid.
MS193, MS192 and an 026  Weeding and Thinning. Gilbert Champion sawmill

red

I was told you will need a laptop computer to tune some new chainsaws ?
Honor the Fallen Thank the Living

Den-Den

Needing a laptop to tune something is not necessarily a bad thing.  A vendor that refuses to sell the software or that charges unreasonable prices for the software should not get our business.
You may think that you can or may think you can't; either way, you are right.

Skip

Yes u need software to tune some new chain saws allready have had it done to one of mine  >:( :P

Kbeitz

Absolutely something that I don't ever want to buy...
Missing the old days when we could fix anything.
I'm the type of guy that fixes all my stuff. I don't care
if it's under warranty of not. I don't want anyone fixing
anything I have. I will learn to do it. Even medical if I can.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

4x4American

I have an ethanol tester from Stihl and I had tested some non-ethanol fuel locally and the tester said that there wasn't any ethanol in it. 


Jeez with all the problems you've had by now you could have paid for a diesel upgrade when you bought the thing I'm sure. 
Boy, back in my day..

drobertson

Not a big fan of the new Kohler's either, the little one on our push mower, a simple little push mower, been through two repairs one new carb, quite certain not had 5 gallons of fuel through it, it died again yesterday, pos, if you ask me,
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Ox

Quote from: POSTONLT40HD on April 01, 2017, 11:27:32 PM
Another thing to think about.....if anyone thinks NON-ethanol gas has no ethanol in it, think again.
Does it mean that there is just little enough in it to lessen or eliminate the problems associated with having more of this devil's brew in the fuel?
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

Dave Shepard

Around here the high test does not have ethanol. If you get mid grade, it is blended with regular and you will get some ethanol. You can test for ethanol yourself by filling a small jar part way with water and making a mark at water level. Then you add the gas. If there is any ethanol,  the level of the water will rise. To know exactly how much is in the gas a graduated cylinder would be best.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

Ox

I've never tested our non ethanol high test.  It's advertised that way and all my small engine problems disappeared after we started using it exclusively so I simply assumed there was none in it.
I think I'll do a small experiment after I buy the next batch (if I remember - lots going on here all the time to distract me).
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

4x4American

What I always wonder, is if there is any lower grade ethanol still in the line before I pump it.  Most gas stations around here that sell high test ethanol free have 3 grades pumping through one line.  So if the guy in head of you pumped 87 ethanol full fuel, is there still some residing in the line that will mix in with your non-ethanol requirements.  What I've done before to remedy this is I'd empty 1 gal first into my pickup, and then fill my gas jugs, but I don't have a gas eating pickup anymore so now I just prime the line onto the ground or into the garbage can before I fill up my fuel can. 







(ok I'm just kidding about priming it onto the ground or into a garbage can. I just don't worry about it anymore, but I had thought about that lol)
Boy, back in my day..

Dave Shepard

I always pump a gallon into the Jeep first. The Stewart's in Hillsdale, where I'm parked at the moment, coincidentally, used to have three separate hoses until they upgraded.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

richhiway

Just a general suggestion. If you have recurring electrical or sensor failures double check and clean all your grounds. It is a good idea to include this in your maintenance schedule. Always use a "star washer" that will take a good bite. Also always keep a battery that is in good condition. If the alternator is constantly trying to charge a weak battery it will cause voltage spikes in the system. Be careful about jump starting for the same reason. This goes for all your vehicles and equipment,including late model diesels. Before you unhook the cables after a jump,turn on your headlamps so a voltage jump has somewhere to go.
Vehicle electronics are ultra reliable if you think of the amount of them out there running trouble free. A lot of problems are caused by bad connections and corrosion and are misdiagnosed. E.C.M. have been on cars since the 1970's.
Woodmizer LT 40
New Holland 35 hp tractor
Stihl Chainsaws
Ford 340 Backhoe

red

Honor the Fallen Thank the Living

ladylake


  Good post above, with the high amp electric pumps and maybe a bad ground a voltage spike could fry  some electrical components.  Steve
Timberking B20  18000  hours +  Case75xt grapple + forks+8" snow bucket + dirt bucket   770 Oliver   Lots(too many) of chainsaws, Like the Echo saws and the Stihl and Husky     W5  Case loader   1  trailers  Wright sharpener     Suffolk  setter Volvo MCT125c skid loader

POSTON WIDEHEAD

If the grounds were not right or the battery or the alternator weren't right, it would show up on the laptop via the software.
As of now and the same as before, its idling and sawing wide slabs like a brand new engine.
No fault codes are coming up and she's just as smooth as silk when working.
No bad grounds.
I'm hoping the TPS was just a bad part. Kohler is making it right and not charging for another TPS.

We'll see.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

Kbeitz

Quote from: 4x4American on April 02, 2017, 12:30:49 PM
What I always wonder, is if there is any lower grade ethanol still in the line before I pump it.  Most gas stations around here that sell high test ethanol free have 3 grades pumping through one line.  So if the guy in head of you pumped 87 ethanol full fuel, is there still some residing in the line that will mix in with your non-ethanol requirements.  What I've done before to remedy this is I'd empty 1 gal first into my pickup, and then fill my gas jugs, but I don't have a gas eating pickup anymore so now I just prime the line onto the ground or into the garbage can before I fill up my fuel can. 







(ok I'm just kidding about priming it onto the ground or into a garbage can. I just don't worry about it anymore, but I had thought about that lol)

According to the American Petroleum Institute the gas-pump hose typically retains about one third of a gallon of fuel.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

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