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Standby generator

Started by petefrom bearswamp, March 29, 2017, 09:18:51 AM

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WV Sawmiller

Pete,

   Congratulations. You will not regret this purchase. I bought mine because I was working overseas and my wife was here alone or with the kids and every few years we'd have an ice storm take down the lines and she would be without power for up to a week sometimes. I was in some warm climate or on the road in a hotel with heat and light and running water. I'd think long and hard about changing that self start function as it only runs about 10-12 minutes and the fuel savings might be insignificant compared to the dependability of it cranking every time. The time delay does handle most of the power company restart attempts.

Rob,

   Attached below (If I can figure out this new to me function) is a couple of pages from my manual with the specs you asked for I hope. I have the 17KW genset. As mentioned elsewhere since I am on Natural gas I get a little less power than if I was using propane but it is irrelevant to me since it does what I need. Also with natural gas I have no tank. The switch box and all the cable needed to hook up came with the generator. It is sized for the unit.

   I ordered the genset and they shipped it and dropped it off here at my house. I had already had my plumber Tee into my existing gas line and run a line to the outside where I was going to put the generator. He installed a ball valve so everything was ready when we went to hook up (actually a year later as I waited to buy the genset after running the line as my wife took an LOA and joined me on a Norway assignment for a year). My buddy from the power company came over and hooked it up one afternoon.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Bill Saf

I thought I would put up some numbers for you so if your thinking of getting a hole house genset from generac you could use this to size your tank and know run time of the genset. 500 gal LP tank @ 80%= 400gal you need to run the genset on vapor. The Exercise cycle will use 0.4 gal  at 25% load 1.4 Gal per hr or 11 days 24Hrs per day, at 50% load 2.1Gal per hr or 7 days at 24hrs per day, at 75% 2.9 Gal per hr or 5 days per 24hrs per day, at 100% load 3.6 Gal per Hr or 3.5 days 24hrs per day.The numbers are based on a lp tank with 400 gals in it. the 22KW genset has 999.cc ohvi v twin air cooled engine.

Just my .02 cents
Bill

petefrom bearswamp

Bill may I assume that full load will be called for only rarely?
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

Ianab

You might never need full capacity.

That's when the AC is on, and someone is cooking dinner in the oven and cooktops, and the fridge and freezer are both running, and the vacuum cleaner, and then you come in and turn on the coffee pot and draw another 1500W on top of that.

We have an electronic power meter than will display the whole house load. Just looked and it reads ~4.5 kw. But that will include 3 kw for the hot water heater. 1.5 is the more normal load of the various appliances that are running. Alternatively I can push it up to ~9kw if I go and start cooking, but that's only a short term thing. House has a 60A 240V main fuse, so ~14 Kw would be "full load"
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Bill Saf

the things that will pull the most power are some of the things you and I would not think would. Like the refridge, freezer, AC unit, any and all motors, coffee makers, toaster, electric heat, electric hot water tank, electric stove ( last three are genset killers if the genset is to small or border line ) just FYI a refridge runs at 50-75 watts but needs 750-800 watts to start. if I was to make a pot of coffee some toast and the refrideg and freezer kicks in the genset will see 4600 watts for a sec or two
then see 3100 watts. you need to size for the biggest draw for when things start +20% and round up to next full KW. I have a owb it pulls 40 watts if I had the pump go out and I had to turn the coils on the ele furnace the coils will pull 19.1 kw to heat the house and if I was making coffee, toast well you see where its going Id be over 22kw and the hwt not on yet

Just my.02 cents worth

Bill

Ox

I remember microwave ovens using more amps than I expected, along with the automatic defrost cycle that most fridges have today.
Deep well pumps will burn out and fail if the generator isn't big enough to swing through the startup amp draw.  This is where a heavy flywheel comes into play.  There will be no problems with your big 22k generator setup.  :)
K.I.S.S. - Keep It Simple Stupid
Use it up, wear it out, make it do or do without
1989 GMC 3500 4x4 diesel dump and plow truck, 1964 Oliver 1600 Industrial with Parsons loader and backhoe, 1986 Zetor 5211, Cat's Claw sharpener, single tooth setter, homemade Linn Lumber 1900 style mill, old tools

petefrom bearswamp

Generator came today my pal is coming tomorrow to start the electrical end.
on the propane end I am still trying to decide whether to lease tanks or buy.
If i buy tanks propane may be cheaper over the long run I am told.
One local supply co. will install 2-120 gal tanks for 200 bucks and initial fill at 139.9/gal, but market price after that along with 72 bucks per year lease fee.
Another local co will fill my tanks for 165.9 for the foreseeable future.
Best price I hav efound so far for 120 gal tanks is 495 bucks plus freight for asme tanks which do not need recertification.
Any thoughts and/or advice on this?
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

Texas Ranger

We have a 15kw that runs everything but the central air, windows units use less power.   250 gallon propane,, lasts about two days are bit more,, depending on what we run.  After Ike we filled three times in 6 days.  But it was worth it, and insurance paid for the fuel.
The Ranger, home of Texas Forestry

petefrom bearswamp

Got the hookup completed 2 weeks ago.
Had a micro burst and rainstorm come thru last Thursday while we were on our way home from a plant buying trip.
Generator was running when we got home.
Power was out 23 hrs and I had the propane company fill the tanks \.
Used 23 gallons, at 39 bucks and change.
Not too bad IMO.
I also lost 5 nice cherry and one large Hard maple.
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

samandothers

Pete
Sounds like a just in time installation!  Glad it performed well. We plan same for future house.

Which tank size did you go with?  How did you know the quantity of LP used?

thecfarm

Too bad you needed it,but I am glad it was there for you.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

WV Sawmiller

Pete,

   Glad it worked as planned and you also have a better feel for the operation costs when you do have to use it. That's actually a little higher than I'd have expected but way cheaper and more comfortable and more convenient than a hotel room.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

Dave Shepard

Quote from: Texas Ranger on April 11, 2017, 08:54:57 PM
We have a 15kw that runs everything but the central air, windows units use less power.   250 gallon propane,, lasts about two days are bit more,, depending on what we run.  After Ike we filled three times in 6 days.  But it was worth it, and insurance paid for the fuel.

I ghink there is something wrong with your numbers. Five gallons an hour for 15kw is too much. My 25kw diesel only burns 5 quarts an hour when loaded heavy. Even taking into account the difference in energy density, that is way off.
Wood-Mizer LT40HDD51-WR Wireless, Kubota L48, Honda Rincon 650, TJ208 G-S, and a 60"LogRite!

petefrom bearswamp

I have 2 120 gallon asme certified tanks.
Propane companies  only fill to 80 percent here so get 192 gallons.
I know the use because the tanks were refilled yesterday and took 23 gallons so should last 8 days with continual use.
I left all breakers on including my hot tub to test the use.
If a prolonged outage happens, I will shut off all but the essentials as I MAY  be able to do without my daily hot tub soak..
I didnt go with diesel because of the degrade over time of the fuel which may sit in the tank for many months or even years.
Unless of course you have a lot of outages.
Here only one or 2 a year usually of short duration.
Main reason for this install is to put my honey's mind to rest when I'm gone. I am 9 yrs older.

Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

sandsawmill14

Quote from: petefrom bearswamp on March 30, 2017, 09:19:48 AM
Wow great responses.
I'm sure I can get by with a smaller setup, but generac units in smaller capacities dont use that much less fuel.
Not sure of all requirements for my needs. but i want to operate my well pump, 2 freezers,  3 fridges, 3 garage door openers, my outdoor boiler with all the circulator pumps for my baseboard heat, lights in the house and shop, TV, microwave, a small electric water heater in my shop, and a small electric heat unit in the shop bathroom.
Havent tried running my mini split AC yet, but maybe will be offset by not using the furnace.
My little guy wont run my hot tub, so a bigger unit would be nice. as would the automatic change over.
Generac has a calculator for sizing, I will go to that next.

i havent red the whole thread yet but the way i size for standby is figure the average kw used for the year BUT check by the month for spikes in usage in the summer or winter should be the peak then size the genny at or maybe 5% above peak  and for my on personal use it would be  diesel engine period they will start period ;) if i were closer to town so i could have natural gas might change my mind but i doubt it :D i have serviced so 30+ year old gennys that start instantly when you flip the main to trick the ats but mind you they have less that 1000 hrs on them  ;) we get alot of bigger units out of hospitals when they upgrade that have 200-300 hrs on them some are nat gas but most are diesel mounted on a 500-1000 gal fuel tank depending on the size of unit  :) i was looking at a couple of cat units today one was a one was a 650 kw with a 3412 engine and the other was smaller with the 3406 but i didnt read gen tag to check the kw but i would guess it was 200-250 kw there was also a nice little elliot genset sitting there but i didnt look at it to even know what type of fuel it was it was likely a 20-25 kw judging by the size of the cabinet it was in :)

sorry about the rambling  but my point was (before i got sidetracked  ::) ) figure what size genset you need and put it in dont just go by whole house  :) it may not be big enough or it might be twice what you need and with gennys you want all you need but you dont want more than you need or the fuel will cost you more for nothing  from now on ;)
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

woodmaker

I went with a 12k diesel standby,but tied it to my furnace fuel oil tank. I have a 200 amp manual transfer switch that runs the whole house.My thought was that i almost never have gas around,but I could run a long time if i drained fuel from dozers,excavators,etc in an emergency.In the winter i treat my heating oil tank with Howes,just like the diesel equipment.
franklin q80,builtrite 40,husky 372,sachs dolmar 123, dozers,excavators,loaders,tri-axle dump trucks ,autocar tractor with dump,flatbed and detachable trailers, and 8  f350 diesels

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