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Author Topic: Standby generator  (Read 2058 times)

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Offline Ianab

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Re: Standby generator
« Reply #40 on: March 31, 2017, 01:01:27 am »
If converting from gasoline to LPG would the generator still be able to put out the same KW's?

As long as the conversion is done right it should put out comparable power. Regular car engine conversions make about the same HP on LPG.

Methane (natural gas) burns with less energy, so converting an engine to that might drop you 20% or so.
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Offline LeeB

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Re: Standby generator
« Reply #41 on: March 31, 2017, 02:10:42 am »
I really like the idea of converting to dual fuel capacity as I have both fuels readily available. Any thoughts on or experiance with this product?

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Offline Chuck White

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Re: Standby generator
« Reply #42 on: March 31, 2017, 07:39:33 am »
Chuck,

   Sorry to burst your bubble but most and I know my Guardian genset has a 10 second delay to avoid power flickering on and off. My clocks do go off in any outage.   

I don't know that from personal experience, I'm just saying what I've heard! 

Just sayin'!
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Offline 21incher

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Re: Standby generator
« Reply #43 on: March 31, 2017, 08:20:51 am »
A couple of weeks ago we had a windstorm that took out power for many and Costco got in a truck load of 9k generators that could run on both propane and gas with no conversion. I thought it was a great idea so you do not have to worry about stale gas from sitting. It looked like you just had to turn a valve to switch and could use whichever fuel that you could find in a emergency. Plus the propane option will not kill people that do not run them in a safe location. :)
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Offline Dave Shepard

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Re: Standby generator
« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2017, 08:28:54 am »
I hate the thought of relying on a gasoline engine in an emergency. I'd go with propane if I already had the tank. Our just be done with the grid and go solar.
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Offline Ox

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Re: Standby generator
« Reply #45 on: March 31, 2017, 08:35:33 am »
Many if not most of these gasoline engines don't have shutoff valves anymore.  This is the secret to keeping these engines running.  When putting them up for more than a few weeks, turn off the valve and run the carb dry.  They'll run again even with crappy old gas as long as that crappy old gas wasn't sitting in the carb.  Better yet, drain the whole system dry and just pull the engine over a few times every month or two.  And keep mice and critters out of it.  Lay bait blocks all around.
We certainly put up with a lot of crap just to have some tools and self sufficiency, don't we?
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Offline petefrom bearswamp

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Re: Standby generator
« Reply #46 on: March 31, 2017, 08:43:44 am »
Bit the bullet and bought the 22kw Generac guardian
I got a discount of 87 bucks for sending a check vs credit card plus will be getting a 3100 pound pressure washer as a bonus. comes with a whole house 200 amp auto switch box
propane vs natural gas, natural at full load, 310 cu ft per hr, propane 140, half load 216 natural, 93.2 propane, plus output is 22kw propane and only 19,500 natural.
I will be installing myself with help from my retired NYS elec and gas friend for the electrical and another retired friend who was in the propane business. I plan to purchase the tank, not sure of size yet he will advise me and he can get me a tank at a discount.
As I understand it the propane supply has to be properly sized or the gen wont function well, 10-12" water column, starts at full load, 350,000 btu per suppied spec.
I went with this for the convenience, dam the expense.
My wife is 9 yrs younger and I should depart this mortal coil well before her and she wont have to worry about power outages which we seem to have several of every year.
other items it is recommended that the unit be shut down every 24 hrs of continuous operation I assume to let it cool some
I think I read that the test interval can be set longer if desired as can the switch time from utility to generator.
Here the power will attempt to come back on a few to several times before going off completely.  WV I dont know if 10 seconds delay will be enough.
also propane vs natural Im sure natural is substantially cheaper, but not an option in bear swamp.
I am excited to get the install done.
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Offline Ox

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Re: Standby generator
« Reply #47 on: March 31, 2017, 08:52:20 am »
 8)  The piece of mind will be worth it. 
Shut down for how long after 24 hrs?  Is it maybe to just be extra cautious and to check fluids, etc.?  I'd break it in on regular oil then change to synthetic and never give it another thought for a couple hundred hours!
It's a good feeling knowing that you're able to have the same style of life after a power outage.
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Offline Kbeitz

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Re: Standby generator
« Reply #48 on: March 31, 2017, 09:50:54 am »
We have PP+L here for our electric company. One of the workers told me
that if a tree or something shorts out the line the automatic circuit breakers
will try to reset 3 times. After the third time they wont come back on until
the short is removed.
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Offline tule peak timber

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Re: Standby generator
« Reply #49 on: March 31, 2017, 09:58:38 am »
Pete,

   I forgot to respond earlier but as to items to hook up, my 17KW unit came a power box with 3 - 220v amp breakers (I run my pump, oven and dryer off those which is all my 220 items), 3-15 amp 110v breakers and 3 - 20 amp 110v breakers which do both reefers, the dryer, computer, TVs, sewing room, kitchen, 3 of the bedrooms, etc. We have ours hooked to code and I have about 3/4 of the items in my house hooked up and left off the lower priority areas that are less used. Realistically I could have doubled up on several areas and run the whole house since we don't run everything at one time anyway with just me and my wife here most of the time. I am sure the larger units come with a larger switch box but we survive very comfortably with ours. Look at what you need and buy the size unit you need.
Can you share more info about your genset/transfer switch? Make , cost , engine particulars ?Your fuel tank size. Thanks Rob
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Offline WV Sawmiller

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Re: Standby generator
« Reply #50 on: March 31, 2017, 10:27:56 am »
Pete,

   Congratulations. You will not regret this purchase. I bought mine because I was working overseas and my wife was here alone or with the kids and every few years we'd have an ice storm take down the lines and she would be without power for up to a week sometimes. I was in some warm climate or on the road in a hotel with heat and light and running water. I'd think long and hard about changing that self start function as it only runs about 10-12 minutes and the fuel savings might be insignificant compared to the dependability of it cranking every time. The time delay does handle most of the power company restart attempts.

Rob,

   Attached below (If I can figure out this new to me function) is a couple of pages from my manual with the specs you asked for I hope. I have the 17KW genset. As mentioned elsewhere since I am on Natural gas I get a little less power than if I was using propane but it is irrelevant to me since it does what I need. Also with natural gas I have no tank. The switch box and all the cable needed to hook up came with the generator. It is sized for the unit.

   I ordered the genset and they shipped it and dropped it off here at my house. I had already had my plumber Tee into my existing gas line and run a line to the outside where I was going to put the generator. He installed a ball valve so everything was ready when we went to hook up (actually a year later as I waited to buy the genset after running the line as my wife took an LOA and joined me on a Norway assignment for a year). My buddy from the power company came over and hooked it up one afternoon.
Howard Green
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Offline Bill Saf

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Re: Standby generator
« Reply #51 on: April 01, 2017, 02:26:34 pm »
I thought I would put up some numbers for you so if your thinking of getting a hole house genset from generac you could use this to size your tank and know run time of the genset. 500 gal LP tank @ 80%= 400gal you need to run the genset on vapor. The Exercise cycle will use 0.4 gal  at 25% load 1.4 Gal per hr or 11 days 24Hrs per day, at 50% load 2.1Gal per hr or 7 days at 24hrs per day, at 75% 2.9 Gal per hr or 5 days per 24hrs per day, at 100% load 3.6 Gal per Hr or 3.5 days 24hrs per day.The numbers are based on a lp tank with 400 gals in it. the 22KW genset has 999.cc ohvi v twin air cooled engine.

Just my .02 cents
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Offline petefrom bearswamp

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Re: Standby generator
« Reply #52 on: April 01, 2017, 04:16:51 pm »
Bill may I assume that full load will be called for only rarely?
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Offline Ianab

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Re: Standby generator
« Reply #53 on: April 01, 2017, 05:13:30 pm »
You might never need full capacity.

That's when the AC is on, and someone is cooking dinner in the oven and cooktops, and the fridge and freezer are both running, and the vacuum cleaner, and then you come in and turn on the coffee pot and draw another 1500W on top of that.

We have an electronic power meter than will display the whole house load. Just looked and it reads ~4.5 kw. But that will include 3 kw for the hot water heater. 1.5 is the more normal load of the various appliances that are running. Alternatively I can push it up to ~9kw if I go and start cooking, but that's only a short term thing. House has a 60A 240V main fuse, so ~14 Kw would be "full load"
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Offline Bill Saf

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Re: Standby generator
« Reply #54 on: April 01, 2017, 06:08:08 pm »
the things that will pull the most power are some of the things you and I would not think would. Like the refridge, freezer, AC unit, any and all motors, coffee makers, toaster, electric heat, electric hot water tank, electric stove ( last three are genset killers if the genset is to small or border line ) just FYI a refridge runs at 50-75 watts but needs 750-800 watts to start. if I was to make a pot of coffee some toast and the refrideg and freezer kicks in the genset will see 4600 watts for a sec or two
then see 3100 watts. you need to size for the biggest draw for when things start +20% and round up to next full KW. I have a owb it pulls 40 watts if I had the pump go out and I had to turn the coils on the ele furnace the coils will pull 19.1 kw to heat the house and if I was making coffee, toast well you see where its going Id be over 22kw and the hwt not on yet

Just my.02 cents worth

Bill

Offline Ox

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Re: Standby generator
« Reply #55 on: April 02, 2017, 10:41:27 am »
I remember microwave ovens using more amps than I expected, along with the automatic defrost cycle that most fridges have today.
Deep well pumps will burn out and fail if the generator isn't big enough to swing through the startup amp draw.  This is where a heavy flywheel comes into play.  There will be no problems with your big 22k generator setup.  :)
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Offline petefrom bearswamp

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Re: Standby generator
« Reply #56 on: April 11, 2017, 07:34:44 pm »
Generator came today my pal is coming tomorrow to start the electrical end.
on the propane end I am still trying to decide whether to lease tanks or buy.
If i buy tanks propane may be cheaper over the long run I am told.
One local supply co. will install 2-120 gal tanks for 200 bucks and initial fill at 139.9/gal, but market price after that along with 72 bucks per year lease fee.
Another local co will fill my tanks for 165.9 for the foreseeable future.
Best price I hav efound so far for 120 gal tanks is 495 bucks plus freight for asme tanks which do not need recertification.
Any thoughts and/or advice on this?
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Kubota 900 RTV
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Offline Texas Ranger

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Re: Standby generator
« Reply #57 on: April 11, 2017, 08:54:57 pm »
We have a 15kw that runs everything but the central air, windows units use less power.   250 gallon propane,, lasts about two days are bit more,, depending on what we run.  After Ike we filled three times in 6 days.  But it was worth it, and insurance paid for the fuel.
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Offline petefrom bearswamp

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Re: Standby generator
« Reply #58 on: May 25, 2017, 08:09:30 am »
Got the hookup completed 2 weeks ago.
Had a micro burst and rainstorm come thru last Thursday while we were on our way home from a plant buying trip.
Generator was running when we got home.
Power was out 23 hrs and I had the propane company fill the tanks \.
Used 23 gallons, at 39 bucks and change.
Not too bad IMO.
I also lost 5 nice cherry and one large Hard maple.
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Offline samandothers

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Re: Standby generator
« Reply #59 on: May 25, 2017, 09:05:02 am »
Pete
Sounds like a just in time installation!  Glad it performed well. We plan same for future house.

Which tank size did you go with?  How did you know the quantity of LP used?