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Author Topic: Grinding/hand filing thread...let's see upclose pics of your chains guys!!!!  (Read 6738 times)

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Offline HolmenTree

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To add to my above post.
As the pic of my race chain I modified in 1988 shows. I built it for a PNW speed bucking competition involving making 3 cuts through a machine turned very fresh wet cottonwood log of 16 inches in diameter.
I tunnelled (thinned the underside of the top and side plate, removed some of the back of the cutter. Removed the safety  ramp alongside the depth gauge. Filed down the top of the drive links and tapered off the edges for more clearance and better chip flow. Filed the inside of the depth gauge ahead for a larger gullet to collect chips.

You'll notice no dog boning out the chassis and the cutters cutting edge is further ahead of the rear rivet then normally done for larger diameter drier wood. The log I cut was 16" spongy wet cottonwood so I left the depth gauges new and high at about .010 because when cutting the depth gauge would sink in about .015-.020 into the softwood. I was running a 7 tooth rim sprocket on my 064AV.  No AV though as I  replaced the rubber mounts with homemade solid aluminum ones.

Now you may ask why I didn't flatten the rivets and leave such a long cutter. Well I feel you need enough cutter and rivets to help clear the wood chips out of the log kerf. A cutter left wilth little structure will only jam up with chips especially big wet ones . Like a fan blade on a chipper wheel , blows the chips  out the spout for the knives to properly cut.

I sharpened this chain with Windsor triangle chisel bit files mounted in a 1970's Granberg bar mount filing jig especially designed to hold these triangle files.
The chain was held by the drive links between 2 thin stainless steel plates clamped in a thin jaw carpenters crosscut saw sharpening vise. The jig was mounted like on a bar and the thin vise jaws allowed clearance for the steep file angles. Plus the chain was held solidly. The slide bushings on that jig weren't sloppy at all . Good quality back in the 1970's.
Here's the pic of my last dozen of my favorite chisel bit files, no longer available for decades. Quality second to none, you can eye ball down the length of the file's tooth corners ....all perfectly straight.
 

 
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Offline Al_Smith

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Yes indeed square is a PNW thing .I have maybe 3 loops of factory square and several of self filed race chain which quit frankly would not work well on the hard as a rock stuff I usually cut .I use a multi bevel file on the rare occasion any of them need a touch up which is seldom simply  because I don't use them much .I'm not real fond of filing square although it does okay it just takes me forever .It's just a regional thing I guess.

Offline khntr85

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 (Image hidden from quote, click to view.)
To add to my above post.
As the pic of my race chain I modified in 1988 shows. I built it for a PNW speed bucking competition involving making 3 cuts through a machine turned very fresh wet cottonwood log of 16 inches in diameter.
I tunnelled (thinned the underside of the top and side plate, removed some of the back of the cutter. Removed the safety  ramp alongside the depth gauge. Filed down the top of the drive links and tapered off the edges for more clearance and better chip flow. Filed the inside of the depth gauge ahead for a larger gullet to collect chips.

You'll notice no dog boning out the chassis and the cutters cutting edge is further ahead of the rear rivet then normally done for larger diameter drier wood. The log I cut was 16" spongy wet cottonwood so I left the depth gauges new and high at about .010 because when cutting the depth gauge would sink in about .015-.020 into the softwood. I was running a 7 tooth rim sprocket on my 064AV.  No AV though as I  replaced the rubber mounts with homemade solid aluminum ones.

Now you may ask why I didn't flatten the rivets and leave such a long cutter. Well I feel you need enough cutter and rivets to help clear the wood chips out of the log kerf. A cutter left wilth little structure will only jam up with chips especially big wet ones . Like a fan blade on a chipper wheel , blows the chips  out the spout for the knives to properly cut.

I sharpened this chain with Windsor triangle chisel bit files mounted in a 1970's Granberg bar mount filing jig especially designed to hold these triangle files.
The chain was held by the drive links between 2 thin stainless steel plates clamped in a thin jaw carpenters crosscut saw sharpening vise. The jig was mounted like on a bar and the thin vise jaws allowed clearance for the steep file angles. Plus the chain was held solidly. The slide bushings on that jig weren't sloppy at all . Good quality back in the 1970's.
Here's the pic of my last dozen of my favorite chisel bit files, no longer available for decades. Quality second to none, you can eye ball down the length of the tooth corners ....all perfectly straight.
 

 (Image hidden from quote, click to view.)

Wow flat out GREAT stuff!!!

Love hearing these stories and seeing the pics...we have zero chainsaw races around my area, wish we did!!

Offline HolmenTree

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i sure wish I knew how to chisel file. the people that know how say that's the only way to go!!
Oh and I am looking forward to a detailed report on that ms261cm LOL!!!
khntr85, the MS261CM report will have to wait. Two days ago my dealer sales lady lied and said it will be in over might to seal the deal.
Just found out I won't see it from the Alberta distributer for at least 1 to 2 weeks. My lot clearing contract starts in 2 days. So tomorrow  I'm  going to have to buy one of her shiny new 550XPs at her cost price......

Will have a report on the MS261CM in a few weeks hopefully.... >:(
First thing this morning (Fri May 19) I bought a new 550XP and the sales lady Christine who ordered the MS261CM just switched invoices on the 2 saws as they are both the same price. So this afternoon as I was doing some running around and finally got on the road.
I was about 2 hours into the drive to my job, I decided to stop when I got within cell service and I called my office phone voice mail.
I have a message from the saleslady Christine. She says "Willard it's 11:35am, guess whats sitting on my desk".

I phoned her back immediately and apologized profusely. I told her if the 261 is not sold when I get back in 4 days I'll pay any price for that saw you want :D
She laughed then answered "I told you I could get that saw in for you in under 2 days!


Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Offline khntr85

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Hey that sure is great!!!

I really do look forward to your review/opinions on the saw....I by no means know you, but it's obvious to me you are the type of guy to give something an honest review, plus you are out there actually using the saw daily, now waxing it in the garage LOL!!!!

Offline khntr85

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Edit

Offline khntr85

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Yes indeed square is a PNW thing .I have maybe 3 loops of factory square and several of self filed race chain which quit frankly would not work well on the hard as a rock stuff I usually cut .I use a multi bevel file on the rare occasion any of them need a touch up which is seldom simply  because I don't use them much .I'm not real fond of filing square although it does okay it just takes me forever .It's just a regional thing I guess.

Hey al, I see you are in Ohio, have you heard of any kind of saw GTG in Indiana...I have never been to a saw race or any saw related event....

I only have 3-acres were I live, but I have thought about have some saw guys over....the thing is most guys around here just look at saws for work, only way to get them over would be offer free food or beer LMAO!!!

Offline Al_Smith

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I have no idea where a GTG in Indiana might be held .That kind of activity comes and goes depending on the interest and usually is early fall .

As far as actual racing events two I know of in the tri states are Chardon Ohio which is in  April and the Paul Bunyan show in I think Cambridge Ohio in the fall .Both of these are top level events with real good operators from all over the place .I've ran at both,didn't do so good but enjoyed it just the same .

Offline khntr85

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I have no idea where a GTG in Indiana might be held .That kind of activity comes and goes depending on the interest and usually is early fall .

As far as actual racing events two I know of in the tri states are Chardon Ohio which is in  April and the Paul Bunyan show in I think Cambridge Ohio in the fall .Both of these are top level events with real good operators from all over the place .I've ran at both,didn't do so good but enjoyed it just the same .

Good deal, I was just wondering if you ever heard of any Indiana events, thanks for mentioning the Ohio ones....

I would like to go to one of the "big" events, I would love to eat a glimpse of those guys chains!!!

Offline Woodcutter_Mo

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 Nipped a rock with the 24" 372xp chain today  :-X, I'll get a pic of it hand filed tomorrow. I'm using the Husq roller guide since I'll be removing so much metal from all the cutters.

 

 
-Sawmill- WoodMizer LT25, Kohler, all manual, old "drag" style WoodMizer sharpener
-Saws- Husqvarna 372XP X-Torque, 455 Rancher X-Torque, Stihl 024AV
-Wood haulers- Kioti DK45 w/FEL, '92 Dodge Cummins with bale/dump bed, '07 Honda Rancher 420

Offline thecfarm

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Takes me about 3-4 filings to get it back to where it was before the rock. I don't try to get it all at one time.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Offline Woodcutter_Mo

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 Here's my finished file job on my 372xp chain done with the roller guide, I went ahead and got all the rock chips out. When I hand file I generally like to cut them just a little deeper but this'll give me a good starting point for the next sharpening.





-Sawmill- WoodMizer LT25, Kohler, all manual, old "drag" style WoodMizer sharpener
-Saws- Husqvarna 372XP X-Torque, 455 Rancher X-Torque, Stihl 024AV
-Wood haulers- Kioti DK45 w/FEL, '92 Dodge Cummins with bale/dump bed, '07 Honda Rancher 420

Offline JRWoodchuck

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Holmen, What are the benefits of square filing vs round? I am falling primarily dead Doug Fir and Western Tamarack. Being in the PNW I would hate not be up to speed!
Home built bandsaw mill still trying find the owners manual!

Offline JRWoodchuck

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Just read back a page and realized you already covered the topic. Thanks!
Home built bandsaw mill still trying find the owners manual!

Offline HolmenTree

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Holmen, What are the benefits of square filing vs round? I am falling primarily dead Doug Fir and Western Tamarack. Being in the PNW I would hate not be up to speed!
Just read back a page and realized you already covered the topic. Thanks!
I can add a bit more benifits.
Ideally square chisel bit chain is highly recommended for felling green oversized softwood.
Dead Dug fir and tamarack (larch) I'd  recommend using a round file because you'll need it to touch up
your chain  frequently throughout the work day.

My experiences with square chisel bit is for competition race chain and chainsaw milling clean logs, mostly spruce.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Offline khntr85

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Ok guys I am going to post 2-pictures....first pic is A...second pic is B....

One of thes pics I hand filed, and one pic I used the grinder....see if you can tell which one is which...I will tell the answer after everyone had a chance to guess! 


Pic A


Pic B

Offline HolmenTree

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Filed cutter is B.
For a second I was wondering what you did to  pic A's depth gauge, hiding it behind the safety ramp. :D
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Offline John Mc

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Filed cutter is B.

That would be my guess as well.

Maybe it's just the angle at which the picture was taken (the two photos are slightly different), but A looks like it has a bit more beak than I like on my chains (not that that is necessarily an indicator of hand-filed vs ground). I do cut with a guy who intentionally puts more of a beak or hook on his chains, and that would likely be more up his alley.
If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail.   - Abraham Maslow

Offline Woodcutter_Mo

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Grinder A, hand file B is my guess as well. Just judging by the slight flatness towards the top of the hook on pic A, whereas the cutter in pic B has a bit more uniform roundness to the hook.
-Sawmill- WoodMizer LT25, Kohler, all manual, old "drag" style WoodMizer sharpener
-Saws- Husqvarna 372XP X-Torque, 455 Rancher X-Torque, Stihl 024AV
-Wood haulers- Kioti DK45 w/FEL, '92 Dodge Cummins with bale/dump bed, '07 Honda Rancher 420

Offline khntr85

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All you guys are right!!!

 The top is ground bottom is hand filed...the top pic is an optical illusion with the safteyty chain...