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Grinding/hand filing thread...let's see upclose pics of your chains guys!!!!

Started by khntr85, March 17, 2017, 11:45:22 AM

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Al_Smith

 :D File or grind,the 64 thousand dollar question with more opinions than the oil wars . I file myself,always have .Some people can't and grind .Simple as that .Methods don't matter, results do .

BTW I do have Dremel and stones .Sure is faster than trying to file a rocked out chain . Wood yes,rocks and metal no .

Woodcutter_Mo

 Still haven't had time to get one of my chains on the grinder but this is my most recent free-hand filing on the 372xp.

-WoodMizer LT25
-592XP full wrap, 372XP, 550XP, 455 Rancher, RedMax GZ3500T
-Fixer-uppers/projects:
024AV, MS260, MS361, MS460, Shindaiwa 488, 394XPG

khntr85

Quote from: HolmenTree on May 04, 2017, 10:59:37 AM
Ok khntr85, here's a few pics. Not filing the cutters but filing the drive links  :D

The most neglected part of a sawchain is the drive links. After normal wear the hook in the leading part of the drive links wears down and the transfer of oil for lubrication and the clearing of wood chips in the bar groove is diminished greatly.

End result is rapid wear of bar and chain, extra heat, binding in the cut and lost cutting efficiency. Look at the last picture and see the comparison between the drive link I filed and the others from normal wear.

Oh and notice my hand filed angles on the cutters with just a touch off the depth gauges :)


  

 
You sir are a wealth of information!!!

Everything you posted looks great...how often do you check and re-dress the bottom drive links's???



Thanks a lot for posting....this is a informative thread, and you post great stuff!!!

khntr85

Quote from: Al_Smith on May 04, 2017, 04:46:02 PM
:D File or grind,the 64 thousand dollar question with more opinions than the oil wars . I file myself,always have .Some people can't and grind .Simple as that .Methods don't matter, results do .

BTW I do have Dremel and stones .Sure is faster than trying to file a rocked out chain . Wood yes,rocks and metal no .

Wrong thread sir, this isn't a debate in which is better....it has been LONG established a fella can get great results either way...

Guys this is a great place to post pics if you need help getting your chains cutting right...take advantage of these guys that are willing to help...some of these guys have been in the business 30-40 years!!!

If you get a chance get some pics of your chains next time you sharpen!!!

khntr85

Quote from: Woodcutter_Mo on May 05, 2017, 08:35:21 PM
Still haven't had time to get one of my chains on the grinder but this is my most recent free-hand filing on the 372xp.

Looks like that will be a good cutting chain!!

khntr85

Quote from: HolmenTree on May 04, 2017, 12:24:00 PM
Wouldn't be a complete comparison  without a pic of new drive links


 

Wow look at the cutter face and profile of the cutter....you can see that it isn't that steep....also notice that there isn't a big "C" shape, like alot of us strive to get.....



It is easy for us guys that grind/hand file our own chains to try and get more of a "hook"....we have to remember that the more hook or the "sharper" it is, the weaker the cutting edge becomes...there is a fine line of a sharp chain and a durable chain!!

As a guy told me one time, think of the cutter teeth as a wood chisel!!!

HolmenTree

Quote from: khntr85 on May 06, 2017, 08:32:56 AM
Quote from: HolmenTree on May 04, 2017, 10:59:37 AM
Ok khntr85, here's a few pics. Not filing the cutters but filing the drive links  :D

The most neglected part of a sawchain is the drive links. After normal wear the hook in the leading part of the drive links wears down and the transfer of oil for lubrication and the clearing of wood chips in the bar groove is diminished greatly.

End result is rapid wear of bar and chain, extra heat, binding in the cut and lost cutting efficiency. Look at the last picture and see the comparison between the drive link I filed and the others from normal wear.

Oh and notice my hand filed angles on the cutters with just a touch off the depth gauges :)


  

 
You sir are a wealth of information!!!

Everything you posted looks great...how often do you check and re-dress the bottom drive links's???



Thanks a lot for posting....this is a informative thread, and you post great stuff!!!
Thanks and your welcome khntr85 ,
I try to at least re dress the links hooks when the chain gets filed back half ways or more.
But as I'm a small business owner operator most times I don't have the time and the loop gets hung up on a nail on the wall. :D
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Al_Smith

Quote from: khntr85 on May 06, 2017, 08:35:46 AM
Quote from: Al_Smith on May 04, 2017, 04:46:02 PM
:D File or grind,the 64 thousand dollar question with more opinions than the oil wars . I file myself,always have .Some people can't and grind .Simple as that .Methods don't matter, results do .

BTW I do have Dremel and stones .Sure is faster than trying to file a rocked out chain . Wood yes,rocks and metal no .

Wrong thread sir, this isn't a debate in which is better....it has been LONG established a fella can get great results either way...

Guys this is a great place to post pics if you need help getting your chains cutting right...take advantage of these guys that are willing to help...some of these guys have been in the business 30-40 years!!!

If you get a chance get some pics of your chains next time you sharpen!!!
Excuse me .I thought the thread was about filing or grinding.Read my reply again I never implied one was better than the other .Fact did I not say in essence whatever works ? For me filing works ,simple as that .For your information I'm nearly 70 years old myself and have done this stuff for a good long while .

khntr85

Quote from: Al_Smith on May 06, 2017, 04:16:03 PM
Quote from: khntr85 on May 06, 2017, 08:35:46 AM
Quote from: Al_Smith on May 04, 2017, 04:46:02 PM
:D File or grind,the 64 thousand dollar question with more opinions than the oil wars . I file myself,always have .Some people can't and grind .Simple as that .Methods don't matter, results do .

BTW I do have Dremel and stones .Sure is faster than trying to file a rocked out chain . Wood yes,rocks and metal no .

Wrong thread sir, this isn't a debate in which is better....it has been LONG established a fella can get great results either way...

Guys this is a great place to post pics if you need help getting your chains cutting right...take advantage of these guys that are willing to help...some of these guys have been in the business 30-40 years!!!

If you get a chance get some pics of your chains next time you sharpen!!!
Excuse me .I thought the thread was about filing or grinding.Read my reply again I never implied one was better than the other .Fact did I not say in essence whatever works ? For me filing works ,simple as that .For your information I'm nearly 70 years old myself and have done this stuff for a good long while .

10-4, I look forward to all the tips and tricks you have learned over 70 years, thank you sir!!!


Al_Smith

 :D I didn't say I came out of the womb nearly 70 years ago running a chainsaw .Although my dad said I had a wrench in one hand and a set of micrometers in the other, my mother disagrees .

There isn't a trick to it on a work chain .Just file at whatever degree it supposed to be ,usually 30 .10 up on Oregon and Stihl,straight on Carlton .Use a guide some times which sets the hook so it isn't "beaked " .Use a second pass ,every so often with no guide and take the gullet clear down to the tie strap so it carries a bigger chip load before it rocks out of the cut .

Now a race chain is a horse of a different color .My method takes a long while with 4 different types of files and isn't what this thread is about .So that ends that discussion .

khntr85

Ok got some beat up chains yesterday....I did some of this guys chains last week, and he really liked the way they cut....you can see in the second picture I sharpened one cutter, then took a pic...I had to grind al bus chains a little deep as the gullets were all in horrendous shape....every chain this guys brings looks like this, he cuts fence rows with a farmer, so they just swap out chains LOL!!!

It's easy to see why so many people burn up saws....then they blame the mix, brand, anything but their own ignorance!!!


Kbeitz

Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

khntr85

Quote from: Kbeitz on May 11, 2017, 08:04:34 PM
Hummm.... That looks like some of my chains...

I will say it's shocking how long guys run dull chains...these are the guys that Burn threw wood, and when their saw burns up they blame the 50:1 mix, idiots!!

Woodcutter_Mo

 This is just a touch up on one of my old previously hand filed 024 chains done on the grinder
-WoodMizer LT25
-592XP full wrap, 372XP, 550XP, 455 Rancher, RedMax GZ3500T
-Fixer-uppers/projects:
024AV, MS260, MS361, MS460, Shindaiwa 488, 394XPG

HolmenTree

I found this old chain I filed up in 1988 for a competition I entered on Vancouver Island in B.C.
Cutting 16" round wet cottonwood with my stock appearing Stihl 064AV.  Competiting against guys like Ron Hartill, Brian Herlihy, Ed Braun, Carl Bischoff.
Chain has been banging around the shop for the last 29 years, cutting edge is dinged up but still shows my angles with the "beak" on the working corner. No stoning, no Lo pro chassis  or dog boning.   Very fast for 3 cuts in the wet cottonwood.
7 time world lumberjack champion Ron Hartill took first with his 100cc 655 Poulan Pro


  

  

 


 
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

OH logger

i sure wish I knew how to chisel file. the people that know how say that's the only way to go!!
john

khntr85

Quote from: Woodcutter_Mo on May 16, 2017, 02:41:16 PM
This is just a touch up on one of my old previously hand filed 024 chains done on the grinder

Looks good man....what grinder are you using agian!!!

khntr85

Quote from: HolmenTree on May 16, 2017, 04:16:22 PM
I found this old chain I filed up in 1988 for a competition I entered on Vancouver Island in B.C.
Cutting 16" round wet cottonwood with my stock appearing Stihl 064AV.  Competiting against guys like Ron Hartill, Brian Herlihy, Ed Braun, Carl Bischoff.
Chain has been banging around the shop for the last 29 years, cutting edge is dinged up but still shows my angles with the "beak" on the working corner. No stoning, no Lo pro chassis  or dog boning.   Very fast for 3 cuts in the wet cottonwood.
7 time world lumberjack champion Ron Hartill took first with his 100cc 655 Poulan Pro


  

  

 


 

Wow you sir are a wealth of info....how sweet a 30-year old chain!!!

This is great info, I love it!!!!

khntr85

Quote from: OH logger on May 16, 2017, 08:16:13 PM
i sure wish I knew how to chisel file. the people that know how say that's the only way to go!!
Oh and I am looking forward to a detailed report on that ms261cm LOL!!!

Woodcutter_Mo

Quote from: khntr85 on May 18, 2017, 03:39:00 PM
Quote from: Woodcutter_Mo on May 16, 2017, 02:41:16 PM
This is just a touch up on one of my old previously hand filed 024 chains done on the grinder

Looks good man....what grinder are you using agian!!!

Thanks. That was done on the old Foley grinder. Chain is cutting real good.
-WoodMizer LT25
-592XP full wrap, 372XP, 550XP, 455 Rancher, RedMax GZ3500T
-Fixer-uppers/projects:
024AV, MS260, MS361, MS460, Shindaiwa 488, 394XPG

HolmenTree

Quote from: khntr85 on May 18, 2017, 03:47:36 PM
Quote from: OH logger on May 16, 2017, 08:16:13 PM
i sure wish I knew how to chisel file. the people that know how say that's the only way to go!!
Oh and I am looking forward to a detailed report on that ms261cm LOL!!!
khntr85, the MS261CM report will have to wait. Two days ago my dealer sales lady lied and said it will be in over might to seal the deal.
Just found out I won't see it from the Alberta distributer for at least 1 to 2 weeks. My lot clearing contract starts in 2 days. So tomorrow  I'm  going to have to buy one of her shiny new 550XPs at her cost price......

Will have a report on the MS261CM in a few weeks hopefully.... >:(
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

khntr85

Quote from: HolmenTree on May 18, 2017, 08:35:51 PM
Quote from: khntr85 on May 18, 2017, 03:47:36 PM
Quote from: OH logger on May 16, 2017, 08:16:13 PM
i sure wish I knew how to chisel file. the people that know how say that's the only way to go!!
Oh and I am looking forward to a detailed report on that ms261cm LOL!!!
khntr85, the MS261CM report will have to wait. Two days ago my dealer sales lady lied and said it will be in over might to seal the deal.
Just found out I won't see it from the Alberta distributer for at least 1 to 2 weeks. My lot clearing contract starts in 2 days. So tomorrow  I'm  going to have to buy one of her shiny new 550XPs at her cost price......

Will have a report on the MS261CM in a few weeks hopefully.... >:(
Hey sorry to hear that!!!

  Oh well atleast you are getting a good saw at a good price...do you like the 550 a lot!!!!

Al_Smith

On that square filed,it is faster but those who live in north  Ohio remember it's nearly all hard woods.It will dull faster .

In my case most I cut are standing dead,fact of late most are dead ash trees which are really hard .As it is usually it's round filed chisel and it takes a trip around with the file about every tank of fuel .It takes about 5 minutes with a file on a 20" loop .Were it chisel just a touch up for me would be half an hour .

Couple years ago at one of our GTG's a guy who went by "Bush Weasel" attended .He was a feller from Idaho .He had a stand mounted Silvery grinder he ran from a static invertor from his pick up truck .They don't file square,they grind .It didn't take him very long with that grinder .

khntr85

Quote from: Al_Smith on May 19, 2017, 06:59:45 AM
On that square filed,it is faster but those who live in north  Ohio remember it's nearly all hard woods.It will dull faster .

In my case most I cut are standing dead,fact of late most are dead ash trees which are really hard .As it is usually it's round filed chisel and it takes a trip around with the file about every tank of fuel .It takes about 5 minutes with a file on a 20" loop .Were it chisel just a touch up for me would be half an hour .

Couple years ago at one of our GTG's a guy who went by "Bush Weasel" attended .He was a feller from Idaho .He had a stand mounted Silvery grinder he ran from a static invertor from his pick up truck .They don't file square,they grind .It didn't take him very long with that grinder .

Wow that is pretty wild about the grinder, saves them a lot of time I bet!!!

  I will try square filing eventually, I just don't have the time to mess with it right now....like you stated AL, since here in Indiana I am in the hardwood like you are in Ohio....

   I have heard some argue that the square chisel holds up about like the round filed/ground chisel....it just seems hard to believe the square would hold up in hickory, locust, and Osage....
 
  What is our preferred file to use when you file the square chains????

HolmenTree

Quote from: khntr85 on May 19, 2017, 08:56:50 AM
Quote from: Al_Smith on May 19, 2017, 06:59:45 AM
On that square filed,it is faster but those who live in north  Ohio remember it's nearly all hard woods.It will dull faster .

In my case most I cut are standing dead,fact of late most are dead ash trees which are really hard .As it is usually it's round filed chisel and it takes a trip around with the file about every tank of fuel .It takes about 5 minutes with a file on a 20" loop .Were it chisel just a touch up for me would be half an hour .

Couple years ago at one of our GTG's a guy who went by "Bush Weasel" attended .He was a feller from Idaho .He had a stand mounted Silvery grinder he ran from a static invertor from his pick up truck .They don't file square,they grind .It didn't take him very long with that grinder .

Wow that is pretty wild about the grinder, saves them a lot of time I bet!!!

  I will try square filing eventually, I just don't have the time to mess with it right now....like you stated AL, since here in Indiana I am in the hardwood like you are in Ohio....

   I have heard some argue that the square chisel holds up about like the round filed/ground chisel....it just seems hard to believe the square would hold up in hickory, locust, and Osage....
 
  What is our preferred file to use when you file the square chains????
Chisel bit chain has no roots in the hardwood industry. Development basically revolved around the huge old growth softwood industry of the PNW.
When the cutter design was introduced in the 1950s a file was about all you had to sharpen them with.
Grinders got popular in the mid 1960s as alot of timber fallers would touch them up with the file  3-4 times per day then have the camp saw filer grind the proper profile back.

In my opinion hand filed square chisel bit is as durable or better then the round filed chain. But a chisel bit is not if ground with a grinder.
Reason is a grinding wheel is curved and the chisel surface is not perfectly flat. A file is flat, but practice and experience with a smooth straight stroke with the hand is paramount. If your grinder wheel was 20 inch in diameter then a flat chisel bit would be more flat.
Same as a carpenters chisel needs to be sharpened on a flat stone .


Making a living with a saw since age 16.

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