Tree value

[ARandall]

A neighbor cut down a Walnut tree  He was going to sell it for profit but we caught him before he could. We called the police and they said we needed to get a survey to prove it was our tree. We did and it was our tree. I need to get an estament for the value of the tree to take to court. T log is 30" at the base, 24" at the tip, and 44' long. It has no limbs. The tree was about 40' from our house so its not the normal timber tree. We contacted several loggers and no one wants to help. One guy said he would come out for $750. I thought it was a bit much. Any advise?

[Jeff]

No one here can possibly attempt to value your tree. If they do they are fool hardy. First, it sounds to me like you think because this tree is walnut it is worth a fortune. Second, the tone of the message seems to indicate more to this then meets the eye.  If its a yard tree, its not worth much, if anything for log value. Calling loggers is the wrong thing to do. If this guy cut the tree thinking it was his, but was wrong, that is one thing, if he cut it knowing it was not his, then you have a whole other ball game.  You don't need us, we don't matter in this. Any estimate you would get here is not relevant. You need a hire a professional forester. Thats probably the only estimate you will get that will fly in court. A tree that size, if it was a yard tree, is worth more for its landscape value, not its lumber value.

Big dollars for the backyard walnut tree is urban legend.

[ScottAR]

I've had to deal with this before kinda sorta.   A lady fell asleep and crashed her truck into a poplar near the road.  Tore all the bark off from ground level to about 6ft high.  

I had an aborist come out and look at it.  He wrote an assesment ,I guess you'd call it, stating the tree was a goner and his estimation of value adding to the property and the cost to remove the tree and the stump.  The price of the timber value wasn't part of the equation.  HTH

I should add this tree was near a house (within 50ft.) and may be different than your situation.

[rebocardo]

Depending on the area, zoning rules, and everything else, a yard tree's worth is for what it adds to how nice the property looks and feels. Plus, the shade it provides to the house. Some trees can be worth $3k-$5k each, much more then the wood would be worth.

Which is why you never cut down the wrong tree on a job :-D

40 feet from the house, sounds like a property and line dispute since they said to get a survey and not out right thieving.

As firewood it would be worth about $150-$200, as lumber being about 1000 board feet maybe $500 or more. You really can not tell without an expert coming out and looking at the log.

There is a big difference between a punky metal filled tree and something of veener quality. Since they took the time to trailer it, it sounds like someone thought it was worth some money, so I would have a pro look at the log.

What did they use to move a 8000 pound log 40 feet from your house and you did not notice it? It takes some serious equipment to load a 40 foot log onto a trailer. The tree had to make quite the impact when that tree fell.
 
What will you do if the judge says, okay, you think the log is worth that much money, keep the log, case settled. Next case. You might be wishing you had someone give you a price on what the tree was worth as landscaping.

[Tillaway]

You need a certified Arborist to do an appraisal for landscape value.  As mentioned before, yard trees have little or no value as saw logs.

[etat]

I'm probably, no I AM the least experienced guy here when it comes to making lumber.  But I've been hanging around here for a while.  And I would like to add something.  Lots, or most  of them yard type trees have at one time or another had a nail, or a spike or a chain, or a fence or some other type of odd pieces of metal either nailed to or fastened to the tree.  Some of em even have pieces of concrete growed into the tree. As the trees grow  these pieces wind up in the tree. They can't see them until they either check with a metal detector, or saw into em.  These pieces can be real hard on a sawmill, making the tree not worth the trouble even though some will gamble on them and try cutting them anyways.  the few that do get sawed up are mostly for personal type lumber, and they will charge you if they ruin a blade or something on the mill. I've seen many pictures on this forum where they have cut into this stuff.  As said there's a lots and lots of urban rumors about how much a walnut may be worth, as lumber,but the truth is most always these rumors are false.  Take these guys advice, they are some of the best, and  I promise they are telling you the truth.

[Ron Wenrich]

You guys are out to lunch on this one.  You need an arborist to do this appraisal any justice.  

A yard tree has a whole lot more value as a landscape fixture than it does as a timber tree.  I've done a few of these and have been able to make them stick.

The forumula is:  value = basic value in $ per sq inch x species value in % x location value in % x condition value in %

First, you start with the base of the tree and figure out the square inches   Since the tree is over 12", you use the dbh.  From the figures given, lets just use 28".  The number of square inches is about 88 inches.

The last one of these I did, I used a base value of $20/sq in.  Due to inflation and value changes, it could easily be $30.  So, the base value of the tree is $2640.

The next factor is the specie value.  As long as walnut grows in the area, it seems to be of a pretty high value.  So, I wouldn't knock off any value due to species.  

The next factor is condition.  Things to take into consideration is form, trunk condition, insects or disease, crown development, structure and life expectancy.  If the trees in good shape and is expected to live for longer than 30 years, there wouldn't be any reduction.  As the condition drops, so does the value.

Location can vastly reduce the tree's value.  Only a feature tree or a historic tree would get you the full value.  Your average residential tree will net 80-90%.  A screem or a windbreak tree would drop it to 60-70%.  A native, open woods tree would drop to 30-40%.  A dense forest tree would be 10-20%.

If its in the back yard and along the neighbor's fence, I'd probably go with a 65% figure.  We'd end up with a $1700 tree, and you get to keep the lumber.  Still think its worth nothing?  Other damages can be tacked on top of that, depending on circumstances.

Remember, this is just an example, and an experienced urban forester or arborist should be able to provide such an appraisal.  

[Stephen_Wiley]

I have provided numerous appraisals.

As Ron has already referred too.  There are standards set up and applied which are used in the appraisal.  The method that Ron illustrates above is one of them.

The formulas are written in a guide used widely throughout the U.S.. Local species guides are also contributory to value factor.  

Establishing 'ownership' is not based upon ignorance. For example: It is each persons responsibility to know traffic laws. Stating ignorance in court is never acceptable. Courts will also rule with punitive damages for trespass.

To the original poster:  $750 is a fair price for an appraisal. A qualified consulting arborist or forester should be able to help.

[Tom]

$750 to tell him that he has a walnut tree worth $200?   Man!  I'm in the wrong business.  Does that come with fries?

[MULE_MAN]

That's what I was thinking Tom

[Jeff]

You guys are out to lunch on this one.  You need an arborist to do this appraisal any justice.  
 
A yard tree has a whole lot more value as a landscape fixture than it does as a timber tree.

Thats what WE said! Landscape value is the value, not the lumber value. Getting a logger to appraise is certainly the wrong person in this case.  I have heard of cases for certain "key" landscape trees, that the value is what it would cost to PUT IT BACK.  What would it cost to put back a mature walnut tree?

And again, I say, depending on what a judge finds to be the whole story here, because certaily there are two sides to it, has a lot to do with the final outcome. Tree Value may only be part of a judgement.

[Dana]

Just a thought, Could he also include the cost of the survey  in court costs since he didn't need and or want one before the tree was cut?

[Ron Wenrich]

You're suing for damages.  Proving your case is part of the damages.  

If we use lumber or firewood values, then there would be no damages, since he still has the tree.  Its cut down, but he still has it.  It isn't like it was taken.

Assuming that the measurements are right, I come up with about 1100 bf in that tree.  20 cents a foot sound right to you guys?  

[OneWithWood]

If this was an attempt to steal the tree aren't treble damages available and isn't the value figured on a near perfect tree?  Or is that only when the actual tree is no longer available for inspection?

[Jeff]

20 cents a foot of a yard tree? And a magnetic maple to boot? depends on how many tree houses cloths lines yard sale signs basketball hoops and yard lights it used to support the last 75 years.

[Ianab]

Only person I can see making out of this is the lawyers and consultants  :

Maybe it's an American thing, but here taking someone to court is the Last resort.

If he sold the tree for money, you should get that cash. It probably cost more to have the tree removed than the log sold for. If you settle out of court you should be able to get the spot landscaped, some new trees planted at his expense and still be on speaking terms with your neighbour.

Even if the tree has a $2000 landscape value... the lawyers are gonna eat that up pretty quick. Sounds like it could end up being a $10,200 tree, $200 for the log, $10,000 for the lawyers?

Ian

[Buzz-sawyer]

Here in the states, if the matter is valued under $5000 we have a small claim court where we often represent ourselves, and judges allow a bit of legal lattitude for citizens to make thier claim.......If I could not get a PROFFESSIONAL forester to testify to the trees worth for less that $750 I would  sure make a case based on current law and bring documentation to back it up.....and  let the judge know the situation, truth and straight speech can work wonders..............
There is whole tv industry based on small claim JUDGE shows ;)

[Stephen_Wiley]

$750 to tell him that he has a walnut tree worth $200?   Man!  I'm in the wrong business.  Does that come with fries?

I agree with you completely on the above quoted figures on the following basis.

The original poster has not given us all the facts about the tree, which may have avoided some confusion on this thread.

He states: "..... the tree had no limbs".  If this is true the tree would have what we refer to as 'negative value' as a landscape tree. Thus the only value remaining would be either salvage lumber or cordwood. This must be where Tom is offering the $200.

Thus a qualified arborist or forester with the above facts would not perform the $750 worth of appraisal normal for a landscape tree.

$750 would be for the field work necessary - measuring, collection and analysis of samples, calculations, report writing and possible court appearance on a tree with landscape value, thus to replace the loss. This can often take 21 man hours to completion.

The base value of tree this size on the west coast would be apx. $36,000 after adjusting that from condition, species and location the appraised value would be $15,234.00. Note: these figures exemplify a tree with a 65% condition and species rating along with a 100% location.

So if the tree was truly a valuable landscape tree the cost of appraisal would be weighed as such:

$750 for a $15,234.00 valued tree.

[rebocardo]

The thing to consider is many urban judges in the USA hear 20,000+ cases a year. A cut down yard tree compared to a say a rape or murder case does not carry much weight or interest, no matter how big the log.

> Only person I can see making out of this is the
> lawyers and consultants  

As someone that spent thousands on a land lawyer to kick ALL (four) of my infringing neighbors off my property after one finally pushed the last straw (paved over my property so he could park his car on my property without getting it muddy) I can say

"You got that right".

To quote my lawyer who ended up with $5000+ of my money

"Good fences make good neighbors".

You now have good free advice free at my expen$e :-D

[rebocardo]

Though I have to say I did get some satisfaction out of the sheriff posting big orange notices on everyone's door for seven days in a row. Probably was not worth $5k though  :D

[Stephen_Wiley]

Oh I dunno..........sometimes judges find humor in reporting their decrees.

Excerpt from:  http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:4XL1vi_nSdwJ:www.rmlaw.com/newsletters/ill_winter_1998_issue.pdf+Judge+awards+%24+for+unlawful+removal+of+tree&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

WOODMAN SPARE THAT TREEFACTS:Castello did hire Hayes to go onto his land and to fill in his ravine. And Hayes went ontothe property of good neighbor Wilson, and he did wantonly remove her trees, and hershrubbery and her fence. And then he did the same for neighbors Birchler and Lang.And the neighbors were sorely annoyed, and did cry out in a loud voice, "Oh what is thestate of this land when one's own shrubbery is not safe."But there did dwell in that land called King, a wise judge and a wise jury composed of 12good persons and true. And the jury did speak with one voice: damages are $17,000,$17,000, and $13,250. And the wise Judge saw that and said: "Good, now I am going totriple that up to $141,750." And the jury went on to say: "$2000 a piece in damages formaking the neighbors upset." The judge did not triple that.And the despoilers of the shrubbery did seek redress in a higher court located in a greattall structure of glass and steel in the center of the business district in the city of Seattle inthe land of King. But those judges were unmoved.And so the shrubbery despoilers took their plea to the most high temple of justice locatedfar to the south in the town of Olympia in the land called Thurston. And five of the mosthigh justices did tell the despoilers to come closer for it does sound as if you present aninteresting issue. But after hearing from the despoilers' advocate the nine high justices didspeak, for once, with a single voice and they did say to the despoilers: "you lose."HOLDINGS:(1) RCW 64.12.030 creates a punitive damages remedy, trebling damages forinjury to, or removal of, trees, or shrubs, when a person trespasses on the land of another.This treble damage remedy is only available when the trespass is "willful."(2) The purpose of the statute: to punish trespassers, to prevent careless or inten-tional removal of trees and vegetation from property, and to roughly compensate land-owners for their losses(3) The measure of damages in a case involving injury to or destruction ofresidential/ornamental trees or shrubs is the restoration or replacement cost for thevegetation.(4) The timber trespass statute sounds in tort. Trespass is an intentional tort.3
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[leweee]

I'm waiting to see this one on reruns of "Judge Judy" or" Judge Joe Brown" Kinda "reality TV" and" American blind justice" all in one place  :D :D :D :