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Author Topic: Franklin 132 XL  (Read 2435 times)

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Offline XMartin

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Franklin 132 XL
« on: March 15, 2017, 09:19:46 pm »
I am a new member, I have been reading posts in this forum as a guest.
  I am shopping for a forwarder, for use in our 50 acre woodlot. We are planning a selective harvest in a year or so. There is a Franklin 132 XL at an equipment dealer, with a Detroit 453. The salesman told me it is "throwing oil", they suspect a bad cylinder or the turbo.  He offered a $5,000 discount for the engine problem.   I would appreciate any thoughts on which would be more likely.  I've read about piston and/or rod damage from ether abuse.   From reading posts in this forum, I gather the 453 is a simple tough economical workhorse, that is relatively easy to repair.The rest of the machine has been pressure washed, there aren't any obvious welding repairs.
Thank you.

Offline Neilo

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Re: Franklin 132 XL
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2017, 03:05:48 am »
A search here for wet stacking, might help. Lots of information on causes.

Try and run the machine to see general condition aside from the engine.

Offline XMartin

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Re: Franklin 132 XL
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2017, 07:07:28 am »
Thanks for the reply, Neilo.  Good advice. I have read some posts mentioning 'Wet Stacking'.  I will call the salesman again today to set up a demonstration, and see if I can contact the previous owner.  I have a hunch someone at the dealership may have given it a dose of ether, with bad results. 

Offline coxy

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Re: Franklin 132 XL
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2017, 08:51:43 pm »
i don't buy the ether thing my dad used it for years i use it and at least 8 other people that are close family use it in there skidders and log trucks with Detroits never had any trouble   you don't want my 518 you would never start it with out it even at 80 it needs it i would think the blower or a bad injector  :-\

Offline BargeMonkey

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Re: Franklin 132 XL
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2017, 10:52:14 pm »
i don't buy the ether thing my dad used it for years i use it and at least 8 other people that are close family use it in there skidders and log trucks with Detroits never had any trouble   you don't want my 518 you would never start it with out it even at 80 it needs it i would think the blower or a bad injector  :-\
You ever seen the ether "capsules" they used yrs ago ? It takes gobs of ether to hurt an engine, a little goes a long ways but I've used it for yrs and never smoked a piston or hurt something. Sometimes when it's that cold it's the only way to get a machine going because you've got 1-2 good cranks before your done. A 453 is pretty cheap to overhaul, you can buy a pulled one pretty reasonable also, less than 5k. If it's a running working engine that doesn't sound like a hand grenade your probably safe, how bad does it smoke ? Drip ? Alot of things to diagnose. I had to do an engine job on the 353 in my 230 shortly after buying it because the cam gear let go and smashed everything.
 Google "Hassinger Diesel in PA", or I can dig out the # for Swintons in Lake George NY, both of them do great Detroit work, you could dump yours on a pallet and get your rebuilt engine back, I know your out in the lake states but around here those are the only 2 I would use for getting a Detroit done.
 

Offline coxy

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Re: Franklin 132 XL
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2017, 04:26:47 am »
never seen them but my dad said they used them said they where 4x better than the ether today

Offline XMartin

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Re: Franklin 132 XL
« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2017, 06:58:52 am »
I'm headed out to look at the Franklin in an hour.  I talked to the previous owner, he mentioned that the 453 has a blower on it.   How do you check for seal leakage on the blower seals?  If I can access the engine oil drain plug, I'll pull that to check for coolant.

Offline Ox

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Re: Franklin 132 XL
« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2017, 10:56:14 am »
What are ether capsules?  How do you use them?
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Offline coxy

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Re: Franklin 132 XL
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2017, 11:30:08 am »
ox you cant get them anymore they where little round balls if i remember right my dad said they where about the size of a moth ball or a little bigger they/you would put them in the air cleaner and they would suck in the intake just like ether i maybe a little off in my explanation so please don't scold me its been over 30years since he explained it to me

Offline Ed_K

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Re: Franklin 132 XL
« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2017, 11:55:25 am »
 The blower box is right above the oil dip stick. It's bolted right to the side of the engine. Just look at the side's of the box and the breather tube. Before I had mine rebuilt there was a lot of oil coming out of the breather tube, plus out of all the gaskets  :D .
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Offline Gearbox

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Re: Franklin 132 XL
« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2017, 12:38:21 pm »
Ether pills they went in something that looked like a big oil cup with a sharpened tube sticking up . When you closed the lid it punctured the ball .
A bunch of chainsaws a BT6870 processer and not near enough time

Offline XMartin

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Re: Franklin 132 XL
« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2017, 09:08:08 pm »
I looked at the forwarder today.  The pins show some slop in the bucket and arms, nothing you wouldn't expect from a 1978 machine. One of the gear racks for the loader rotation looks a little peaked, the other looks like new. The center pivot didn't seem sloppy at all.
The engine started after a little cranking, then shut down, after that, it took quite a lot of cranking before it finally kept running. There was quite a knock from the front of the engine before it warmed up, which I didn't notice later.  The exhaust had water spraying out before the engine was warm.  It had 40 pounds oil pressure at idle, 60 at full throttle. The engine did not miss at idle or full throttle. I stood in the smoke to get a smell,to see if I could smell coolant, but didn't smell any.  It had a full pipe of white smoke the whole time it was running, cold, warm, idle, or full throttle.  The engine oil was BLACK!  The oil wasn't milky.  There was smoke, (not a lot), coming out of the dipstick hole while the engine was running. blowby?)
I am pretty sure I will buy it, and start with draining the fuel tank and changing the fuel filters.

Offline Ox

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Re: Franklin 132 XL
« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2017, 10:32:47 am »
Thanks for the explanation, coxy and gearbox.  Usually I've at least heard of most things but not ether pills.  An internet search didn't give me anything either.  Were they fairly common once upon a time or was it only for certain machines, or?
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Offline Ed_K

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Re: Franklin 132 XL
« Reply #13 on: March 19, 2017, 10:52:07 am »
My 4-53 smoked white same as what you described, and when I had it rebuilt 2 piston rod's were bent. The mechanic said they got bent from getting water down the exhaust pipe. When you said water was blowing out when you started it, that brought back memories of mine keeping the bugs away 😁.

Offline tacks Y

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Re: Franklin 132 XL
« Reply #14 on: March 19, 2017, 11:48:06 am »
XMartin, Did you see the pictures of the one for sale on here? Just another idea.

Offline Gearbox

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Re: Franklin 132 XL
« Reply #15 on: March 19, 2017, 04:57:11 pm »
Ox I think they were full of surgical grade either .
A bunch of chainsaws a BT6870 processer and not near enough time

Offline XMartin

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Re: Franklin 132 XL
« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2017, 07:11:01 am »
Thanks again for the replies!

Ed K,      The rods may be bent,  I don't know.  It seemed to run smooth once it started, it did have a knock when it first started, but I didn't notice it after that.

tacks Y,   No, I did not see the one for sale here on the forum.  Is there a "For Sale" section here?

Offline tacks Y

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Re: Franklin 132 XL
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2017, 07:32:56 am »
Yes there is a FOR Sale section, also a wanted area. You could save me a trip to Mi.

Offline thecfarm

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Re: Franklin 132 XL
« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2017, 07:40:07 am »
One way to find the For Sale section, and all the other sections too,
Should be above the banner that changes on the left,starts with Foresty Forum, Forum,Recent Unread Topics.    Click on to Foresty Forum and that will bring you to all the threads. Scroll down to find the For Sale section.
I am on a desk top,so any new threads or post comes up for me.
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Offline XMartin

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Re: Franklin 132 XL
« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2017, 05:05:44 pm »
Again guys, thanks for the replies.
I found the forwarder in the for sale section, seems like a nice machine.  Only thing is, it is 380 miles away.  Hauling that far would be a bear.

Offline Ed_K

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Re: Franklin 132 XL
« Reply #20 on: March 20, 2017, 06:02:54 pm »
 XMartin don't worry to much. I ran mine for 11 years that way, it ran smooth once it started, just used a lot of ether to start it. 🤔 I just didn't know any better back then.😊

Offline XMartin

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Re: Franklin 132 XL
« Reply #21 on: March 21, 2017, 06:49:21 am »
Ed_K,
  Tanks for the input!   I plan to buy it, change the fuel filters, and check for water in the fuel tank.
I've done  a lot of reading on this forum the last couple weeks, and one thing people agree on is that the Detroit is tough!  If clean fuel doesn't help, I will pull the covers off to see if there is a difference where the pistons end up on the down stroke, maybe I can tell if a rod is bent or not. I will also talk to my cousin's boys, who's dad had a Detroit in an Oliver tractor.  He bought it cheap because there was an issue with the engine.  They had guaranteed the block and head, he found a bent rod, and repaired it.  He ran it for 30 years after that, straight induction no blower, no turbo, it screamed ! I remember the awe when I saw 4 exhaust valves per cylinder, and the intake ports on the bottom of the sleeves!

Offline RHP Logging

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Re: Franklin 132 XL
« Reply #22 on: March 21, 2017, 08:00:38 am »
I had/have a Cummins in mine. The first engine was blowing oil out of the breather so bad to finish the winter I built a contraption out of tackle box that caught the oil(3-4 quarts an hour). After every hour I would shut the engine off, open a valve on my tackle box, and let the oil drain back into the pan. It turned out I had a broken ring on three out of four pistons. From the time I had the engine it always had a little exhaust blowing out of the breather. Then eventually an oil drip, then a full on oil stream. The broken rings had so much blowby that they built compression in the crankcase and pushed oil out wherever it could. The cylinders looked good but we're played out at the top. Everything else other then the broken rings looked fine.
Buckin in the woods

Offline XMartin

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Re: Franklin 132 XL
« Reply #23 on: March 23, 2017, 09:32:18 pm »
Today is my wife's birthday! 
My Franklin 132 forwarder was delivered today.  Happy birthday Mary!
We unloaded it into a plowed field, rough going. The dang thing smoked so bad it would have killed mosquitoes for miles if it was warm enough for them.  Watching the trucker operate the loader, I was thinking, "Wow, that is going to be something else to learn how to operate like the guys I have seen operate loaders before.  But before I start to play with that, I need to pull some covers off and investigate the whole machine. 
The forecast here is rain for the better part of a week,so I will wait for drier weather before getting started and taking pictures to share. 

Offline BargeMonkey

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Re: Franklin 132 XL
« Reply #24 on: March 23, 2017, 10:20:57 pm »
Congratulations. 👍 the smoking part doesn't scare me, but I would determine the cause before it gets terminal and your dealing with something sticking out the side of the block. The Detroits are relatively cheap to work on, filters are easy. When you do start going thru it I would inspect the fittings and line going to your fuel filter bases, I had a piece of gunk in a 90 on mine and had fuel issues that stumped me for a while. You may just need blower seals, did you try and knock open the doors and check and see just how bad the rings looked ? You can have that engine out and laying on the floor in 4-5hrs, kits aren't bad to do and most places can check the head.

Offline XMartin

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Re: Franklin 132 XL
« Reply #25 on: March 24, 2017, 07:08:16 am »
Thanks Barge Monkey.
 It is raining today, and the forecast is for rain the next few days.  I am looking forward to getting started.  I will call the previous owner again, he said I could call with questions.  What oil he used, which fuel to use, what that other button on the dash is for....  The machine really needs some TLC.

Offline XMartin

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Re: Franklin 132 XL
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2017, 05:54:01 pm »
     Well, the rain let off today, I was able to explore my Franklin forwarder.
   The engine serial number is,  4D-33365.  The previous owner, "Larry" told me that at some point he switched the engine from a 353 to this 453. I found a link that said this is a 1978 year engine. It has a blower, but no turbo on it.  I need help figuring out what engine I  have here, is it a "Silver"?
  As Larry suggested, I drained the fuel tank, and pulled the fuel filters. The fuel looked a little milky, but if there was water in the tank it was all in suspension in the fuel, no visible water came out first.  The petcock on the filter housing did allow a few drops of water to drain out before the fuel.  I thought the fuel collected from the filters smelled like gasoline, can't figure that one out. Larry told me the engine was fine when he traded it, he thinks the smoke is from water in the fuel, I'll start with fresh stuff. I will pick up some fuel and filters Monday.
   I also discovered the master cylinder for the brakes is trash, the line runs down to the bottom of the transmission, I'm guessing whatever is down there isn't quite up to snuff either. Not my number one priority yet, but I think brakes would be nice to have. Apparently Larry didn't, the last paint job hasn't worn off the brake pedal.         Later.
   All the hoses are missing most of the rubber outside layer. $$$        Later.
   I need to find a manual for this thing.  The rear of the transmission has a swinging lever that looks like it may be a filler cap, except there is a substantial spring that holds it closed.
  The wiring looks like a rat nest, again, I can wait to sort that out.
  The muffler has some cracks in it, but looks like it can be welded.
   The Franklin has a top mounted loader, with braces running down to the front frame. On the back the top is bolted to the rest of the frame at about seat height, those hinges are all welded solid, not too concerned about that, not sure why I didn't notice that before I bought it but, it is what it is.
   Right now, I need to get the engine right.
   
       

Offline Corley5

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Re: Franklin 132 XL
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2017, 09:15:38 pm »
Did he move the radiator ahead to fit the 4-53 ???  My 132 has the 3-53 and there's not much room between the fan and the radiator :)

 

 

 

  
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Offline bushmechanic

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Re: Franklin 132 XL
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2017, 07:07:31 am »
If the serial number starts with a 4 then it's a four cylinder, a 3 is a 3 cylinder and so on. The model number will give you more on how it's configured. If that machine is smoking white heavy smoke and runs ok I would suspect an injector has failed. This would also give you the knock when it first started and went away. You can do an injector cut-out test but that may not tell you which cylinder has the issue, the only sure way is pull off the exhaust manifold and it will be the wet hole. Good luck with your "new" machine 8)

Offline tacks Y

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Re: Franklin 132 XL
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2017, 08:58:09 am »
You can also start by feel, find the exhaust port that does not get as hot.

Offline XMartin

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Re: Franklin 132 XL
« Reply #30 on: March 26, 2017, 09:04:37 am »
Corley5,
He must have moved the radiator,  yesterday I noticed mounting holes in the frame where the front engine mounts must have been for the 353.

bushmechanic,
 I was looking at the option plate yesterday, the serial # is,  4D 33365  5043 7001.  Its raining again so I promised to go to a movie, I haven't been to one for about 20 years, not looking forward to it.  Once I get the new filters and fuel I'll fire it up and do the injector cut-out test.

tacks y,
I'm going to go over some posts again to review how to do the cut out test.  Someone mentioned using an IR thermometer to check for a cold cylinder.

Once again folks, thanks for the responses!

Offline XMartin

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Re: Franklin 132 XL
« Reply #31 on: July 16, 2017, 12:09:33 pm »
I picked up my newly rebuilt engine.  Harold, at Leid Diesel told me that water had gotten into two cylinders and next time it was started it bent two rods, they gave me one with the sleeve. The rod bent enough to break out the bottom of the sleeve. Before I re-install the engine, I need to  finish replacing the bearings in the transmission and 

  replace a brace between the frame rails at the mounting area for the blade, both sides are cracked, one side completely.

Offline nativewolf

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Re: Franklin 132 XL
« Reply #32 on: July 16, 2017, 01:05:56 pm »
glad you are making progress with it.  Too bad about the fluid & the rods.

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Re: Franklin 132 XL
« Reply #33 on: July 16, 2017, 02:10:04 pm »
That's a common problem when water gets down the exhaust pipe, goes right to the top of the pistons with the valves open. Soon as you crank the engine... bang bent rods. Should always cover you exhaust if it's being left for a while anyway. If its done right you will get some time out of the new engine. Good luck!

Offline coxy

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Re: Franklin 132 XL
« Reply #34 on: July 16, 2017, 02:33:06 pm »
yep been there done that had my skidder for about 4 years nothing ever got in there then one night of heavy rain and must have been parked just right the next day she was done  :(