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Looking for opinions on swingblade mills

Started by plantman, March 10, 2017, 08:51:24 PM

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plantman

One of the tree services I work with recently gave me logs from a typical large white oak they were removing. The stalk wood was about 3.5' in diameter and a 12' log probably weighed about 7000 lbs. They were too big for me to lift with my skidsteer so I thought that I could use an Alaskan mill to cut them up but ideally I would like to have a swing blade mill that I could simply set up around them.
While I also got the branches which were about 12 - 18" in diameter they tended to be bent and therefore I imaging that the usable lumber I obtain from them will be limited. I foresee that large logs will ultimately yield me the most wood for my time and effort. They are also the logs that the small tree services have the most difficulty getting rid of. From a loggers perspective I feel like I'm sitting on a gold mine of free wood here. So I'm just trying to imagine which mill will do the job. I am imagining that 1/2 the time I might be going to where the log is and 1/2 the time I might be taking the logs back to my location.

longtime lurker

A Lucas will wobble and shake a bit: pretty much all portable mills will move around somewhat. If they're rigid enough to be solid they basicly arent portable.
They can wobble and shake real bad if overfed, same as all the swingmills do. Its an operator error thing and I think we all learn to take 2 x 5 inch passes rather then a single 10 inch cut in the horizontal plane. its part of the tradeoffs involved: they dont have the weight to carry the power to feed the number of teeth it takes to make a clean cut that deep. So you take a smaller bite at it which you can do. Twinsaws dont have that option which is one of the advantages swingmills have over them.

But regardless of movement they'll cut a board thats as accurate and straight as the operator makes them. Amazes me sometimes to watch mine working with a newb on it yet it still does okay. With me on there is no difference between the accuracy of the boards off it and the accuracy of the boards off my large and expensive circlular resaw : I'm a professional sawmiller and thats the result I should achieve. Albeit its a lot slower with the swingmill.

Mine pretty much lives bolted atop a permanant log deck on a concrete pad - its a rare thing for me to play portable sawmills. I've set up on concrete before with the support arms pegs out in the dirt, or on asphalt with the pegs driven in. Or dirt on slopes only a madman would play on. Or over a hole when the logs been that big that I had to dig it in to get the mill over it. Or atop 40 gallon drums on the side of a mountain in the jungle where we airlifted the mill in and the mill and lumber out: thats the beauty of the things, when the logs too big to drag home you can take the mill to the log.

The one thing I would say for sure is that theres no gold mines much left in this sawmilling caper.
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

ButchC

Again strictly a beginner here but as LL stated the light weight equates to some shake but if the log isnt moving around the swinger still cuts very accurate lumber by my standards. It takes very little handle time to figure out how hard you can push the envelope, the mill will complain loudly when pushed too hard. My JP is set up on concrete and just sitting on it. I have no troubles with it moving around,  it operates nicely on it.  I am debating if I would be better off sawing out in the pasture? I believe that I can string the logs out and move the mill from log to log with less effort than it takes to keep the mess shoveled off the slab?
Peterson JP swing mill
Morbark chipper
Shop built firewood processor
Case W11B
Many chainsaws, axes, hatchets,mauls,
Antique tractors and engines, machine shop,wife, dog,,,,,that's about it.

MbfVA

It's very interesting to see the comments about the swing blade nails like Peterson and Lucas, and now turbo saw. I had been looking  at bandsaw Mills.  I do wonder about one thing: with all the gizmos put on by Wood – miser and Norwood, et als, to make sure the log doesn't move on the band Saw Mills, log dogs and all that, what keeps the log that's being sawed by a swing blade mill from moving?
www.ordinary.com (really)

dgdrls

Gravity mostly,  after that log dogs or notched bunks help.   I started with notched bunks.

D



  

 

mad murdock

LtL, the Turbosawmill M6 that I have is definitely the "Swiss army knife" of portable mills. I put a Husky 395XP on it with a dual port muffler and it seems to pull real good even through a deeper cut. I posted a few pics of my latest milling foray in "cooking with gas" now!  I will be getting some more pics and hopefully a vid or 2 in over the next little while. Band mills have their place as you and others have stated, but for me, I like the portability and ease of the swing blade with the slabber option I have with my mill setup.
Turbosawmill M6 (now M8) Warrior Ultra liteweight, Granberg Alaskan III, lots of saws-gas powered and human powered :D

MbfVA

Sure looks like home built will rule for swing blade mill log dogs.  $800 on the Turbosaw site seems almost like a wave-off, to encourage self made, especially given all the detail they offer in the photos.  Even the $204 USD price from Peterson seems high; I bet the function, if not the device, will not be that hard to match.

Thinking of the portability comment: sandbags or lead shot bags could provide more weight to the bunks (bearers, per Peterson) in a way that retains portability.  Break a load of any size into reasonable parts....

Thanks for the help thus far, and for allowing me to tag along on this thread.
www.ordinary.com (really)

Ianab

You certainly can fabricate your own.

One thing to consider, the commercial ones use a hard aluminium. If you accidentally graze them, you don't de-tip your blade. Because the mill has no "deck" as such, it's possible to have your bearers high enough for the blade to hit them. Skim a wooden bunk? No problem. Skim an alloy dog? No big deal. Hit steel? You are swapping out a blade.

If you are setting up semi stationary on a firm surface, you can always rig up a "stop" that keeps the blade 1/4" off the dogs.  But if you are mobile, the sawdust tends to build up, and you reset the bunks for different length or taper of log. By the end of the day you are sawing on a bed of sawdust and the bunks are a few inches higher. Yeah I know, I could shovel the sawdust away... but that's hard work  :D
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

MbfVA

I'm buying a Kobalt battery powered blower just to keep near the mill (the new 80v batteries are stupendous)!  Hey I really appreciate the advice you're giving me.  Talked to Left coast for a hour today about the Peterson.  Dither dither!
www.ordinary.com (really)

NZJake

Hi there,

Jake here. I'm in Europe on holiday with the wife right now. If you message me your phone number I'd love to have a chat.

Just attended the Ligna Expo in Germany with the diesel Auto. Sawed up 20 ton of Poplar alone and at the stand. Sawing was the easy part. Filling the container on the final day with slabs and sawdust not so fun on your own lol...

Here is a link to some footage. https://youtu.be/sn-bUAjielI

Just did some figures:
Sawing alone...
28 seconds a board
27mm x 150mm x 5.5m
.022 cube per board
45 boards per cube
21 min per cube/422bf
2.85 cube per hour
1202bf per hour
Wife says I woke up one morning half asleep uttering thin kerf and high production, I think I need a hobby other than milling?

Savannahdan

I have the Luca 10-30 mill and love it.  That being said you might want to find out what mills folks have in your area or in a distance you'd be willing to travel.  Most folks are more than willing to demonstrate and maybe let you run their mill.  It would help to have an idea of what you want to do with the mill and what you might grow into.  I started out with a Granberg Alaskan chainsaw mill (still have it), went to a bandsaw mill and sold it due to a health reason that seemed to solve itself, and now have the Lucas mill.  I see another bandsaw mill in my future.  I like running all of them.  I also see me getting the slabbing system, planer attachment and sanding attachment for the Lucas mill.  I have 2 logrite peavys and 1 Chinese-made cant hook.  For my current work the Lucas is handy in that I can roll them into the mill or set the mill around them.  As you can tell from my rambling there is the factor of getting hooked.
Husqvarna 3120XP, Makita DCS7901 Chainsaw, 30" & 56" Granberg Chain Saw Mill, Logosol M8 Farmers Mill

MbfVA

Again, Mr Peterson, a nice video of a nice looking mill going back n forth for 10 minutes, but no commentary, captions, explanations, nothing.  Production figures in the post, great but as the the site owner Jeff has so succinctly posted, somewhat meaningless since actual results are dependent on so many factors.  Yes, impressive machinery, but a very very very very very very repetitious video.  And the "drill winch", when will TS offer a permanent motor drive?  It makes the mill look like it's some sort of prototype or experiment.

Norwood videos are slick n polished and their site leaves questions that should not go unanswered, but they do narrate the videos helpfully and informatively though of course with a strong marketing undertone (nothing wrong with that as long as the information content is high).

Woodmizer, a bit like TS, kinda like: here it is, isn't it impressive, been here forever so we undoubtedly do it best, got the resale thing down (and they do appear to), and I have my order pad in hand.  Their web site needs attention.

Peterson & Lucas, better in some ways.

I'm not from Missouri or NZ, but please, show me...more.  You're asking for a lot of money from us, sawmill & accessory makers!  Rant mode off.

PS--how about a well edited video showing a pro sales/tech person orienting a prospective or new sawmill owner either being shown a machine at a sales site or one being picked up, with questions and answers as the mill operates?  Is that a seed of an idea for one or more of these companies?  I'd love to see it!

What we really need is for the PBS Motorweek folks to review sawmills!  What a great job they do!  Host John can sneak in more inoffensively presented but still informative facts during his reviews than anyone I have ever seen.  He zaps things for the careful listener but avoids offending the companies that provide the cars, masterfully.  It's been a while since we shopped for a new car/truck (too much spending on other toys) so he may have retired.  Hope not.
www.ordinary.com (really)

Savannahdan

Take a look at the Woodland Mills and Cook's company videos.  They cover the technical and feature aspects of their mills and then they demonstrate the mill by cutting a log.
Husqvarna 3120XP, Makita DCS7901 Chainsaw, 30" & 56" Granberg Chain Saw Mill, Logosol M8 Farmers Mill

dgdrls

You'll only get so much from a video
Test drives are the only way you'll know for certain.
Get out and make some visits to folks who have
the style mill your interested in,

If you're not in a rush, go to the 2017 Paul Bunyan show in Ohio
it's the Sawmill Shootout this year you should see plenty of mills
and have staff right there to help.

D

NZJake

Hi again,

One thing I've learned in business you can't please everyone. I've accepted that. If you are truly interested in learning about our sawmills check out our YouTube channel that holds almost 100 videos (some with commentary). You can also check our website out and even download our phone app. There is a lot of information available to you if it's needed.

Mill comes standard with handcranks. We do have the electric option but just seems extremely expensive and over engineered compared to a simple rechargeable drill. It's accurate and practical. For that reason I will always recommend them to owner's.

See us at the shootout!! I'll be operating the mill by myself there too.
http://youtu.be/euJWyJbx_A4
http://youtu.be/Y-42xqg5ab4


Thanks.
Wife says I woke up one morning half asleep uttering thin kerf and high production, I think I need a hobby other than milling?

Ianab

Videos and "specs" are all very well. But you really want to see and even better, use the mills.

All the main swingblade mills work much like the videos show. You set up the mill / log and move the sawhead up and down the rails. Adjust the carriage position each time.  If it's not working like the video shows, then you stop and work out why. Something mechanical and usually quite basic will be wrong, you fix it, and carry on.

Now there are pluses and minuses with the various designs. Some are lighter and more portable, some have power feeds and adjustments (good for production, not so good for cost and portability).

So go and see some mills running, even if it's just at a show. See how the ergonomics work. How will it fit in with your planned operation? Engines, blades, bearings are all pretty much known items.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

longtime lurker

[quote author=NZJake link=topic=95085.msg1486884#msg1486884 date=149587878

Just did some figures:
Sawing alone...
28 seconds a board
27mm x 150mm x 5.5m
.022 cube per board
45 boards per cube
21 min per cube/422bf
2.85 cube per hour
1202bf per hour
[/quote]

x a sawmillers day of 10 hours = 12020 BF / 28.5 m3
5 days in a week  = 60,100 BF / 142.5 m3
working 50 weeks a year = 3,005,000 BF / 7125 m3

which I think we all agree is pretty danG good for a lightweight portable sawmill and one guy working alone.

No offense meant to Jake in this because pretty much every manufacturers production numbers are the same bovine fecal matter "got no grounding in the real world" extrapolations of quick cutting bursts in good logs.

Go look at mills, talk to owners etc etc etc.

The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

MbfVA

I did see the Cooks & Woodland Mills videos.  Agreed, best presentations out there (with Woodland the winner by far; love the ATV trailer story), but those mills don't fit our perceived needs at this time; we're focusing on Band mills for now.

I don't expect to buy based only on a video, but to me the more you know about a product before seeing it (esp considering how far we have to travel for most demos), the better.  Knowledge enables a better demo and more information from it.  You go in knowing what to look for and what to ask about, at least to start with.

Woodland borders on one stop shopping since they are really doing everything but putting the customer's hands on the mill, almost as good as virtual reality.  It's the kind of setup and operations demo video that to me truly & clearly tells the buyer what to expect.  I like that over a video that just sells, the case with so many.

Jake, no offense intended by me either.  I take my job as a muckraking & questioning curmudgeon seriously.  Here's hoping you enjoy the rest of your trip.  Have any TS mills near us in VA (zip codes 22963 for the farm, 23102 home), might take a look?  I do have the money on hand to buy the right mill.  We just ordered a tree saw from Dougherty Forestry Mfg so we'll have raw material soon.


www.ordinary.com (really)

NZJake

Hi Long time Lurker,

I am totally with you on production rates. How many times I was asked how much can this machine cut in a day? I kind of look at them and ask back how long is a piece of string. Big logs big boards = high production. Small logs, small boards = low production.

Typically narrow 1" boards take the most time. This show at least allowed me to look back at the stack and say to the customer, well I cut that over the last few days running the machine 10-20 minutes every hour. That kind of helped.
Wife says I woke up one morning half asleep uttering thin kerf and high production, I think I need a hobby other than milling?

JustinW_NZ

 :D - so agree   ;D

Quote from: longtime lurker on May 28, 2017, 04:24:06 PM
[quote author=NZJake link=topic=95085.msg1486884#msg1486884 date=149587878

Just did some figures:
Sawing alone...
28 seconds a board
27mm x 150mm x 5.5m
.022 cube per board
45 boards per cube
21 min per cube/422bf
2.85 cube per hour
1202bf per hour

x a sawmillers day of 10 hours = 12020 BF / 28.5 m3
5 days in a week  = 60,100 BF / 142.5 m3
working 50 weeks a year = 3,005,000 BF / 7125 m3

which I think we all agree is pretty danG good for a lightweight portable sawmill and one guy working alone.

No offense meant to Jake in this because pretty much every manufacturers production numbers are the same bovine fecal matter "got no grounding in the real world" extrapolations of quick cutting bursts in good logs.

Go look at mills, talk to owners etc etc etc.
[/quote]
Gear I run;
Woodmizer LT40 Super, Treefarmer C4D, 10ton wheel loader.

MbfVA

Wishing the swing blades and/or the more economical band mills did 24" boards (boards, not logs) without using a slabber since that is usual countertop depth in USA.  Several do 23", falling just short.

We are considering wood countertops, and I am no joiner.

Our old farmhouse has some very wide wainscoting approaching 3 ft, from ca.1787, back when trees that big were on the property.
www.ordinary.com (really)

TKehl

EZ Boardwalk 40 will do a 36" wide cut. 
In the long run, you make your own luck – good, bad, or indifferent. Loretta Lynn

Magicman

Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

MbfVA

Little knowledge of boardwalk but commenting on LT15 wide, its $10K price is outside of economical for me, but obviously that's only my OPINION 🤑💲.

My main point was that the more sharply priced units like Woodland just missed countertop width by 1".   Could be a mm vs inches thing for Woodland, and I suppose it depends on where they perceive their main market is.  I sure like the information they supply--about the best I have seen, docs and videos.  Some mfrs as I have commented are downright cryptic or even secretive.
www.ordinary.com (really)

MbfVA

Well, Plantman, I just voted for your views.  I bought a Peterson WPF from an OH seller along with accessories, just arrived back with it today.  I posted about it under another thread I started, about D&L mills, so I won't duplicate here.  I'll start a new thread when I get it set up and going since there seems to be interest & questions about swing blade mills on this list.

Ditto on your above comments, based on what I have seen & learned.

The Peterson folks have a rep for good workmanship and materials, and for good support for their owner community, borne out by my experience--again, so far.  Ezra Newick just sent me a nice emailed response and some information including an owners manual download within a couple of hours of my email telling him of my purchase.

I'll try to upload a few photos to my "gallery" but there may be a learning curve based on prior comments on it.
www.ordinary.com (really)

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