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ID of Tree on House we are thinking of Purchasing - Twigs, Leaves, Walnuts?

Started by rjgoebel, March 02, 2017, 03:00:21 PM

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rjgoebel











OK some background on this one: This isn't my tree (yet), but it is a house for sale that we are thinking of buying.  We fix up old beat up houses but I've been recently learning a lot more about trees, etc.

This is a large tree.  I didn't get girth measurements but I'd estimate it's at least 38"+ diameter.  It has a lot of things growing around the base, that were cut off in the last couple years.  I'm going to attach some pictures.  There are undoubtedly black walnut shells around the base (please confirm this but I feel confident) as well as some leaves.  However, there are a reasonably significant amount of what appear to be the pointy pin/bur oak type leaves, too.  This tree is mostly out in the open, in the front yard of the house - the closest other trees (there are probably about 3) are between 8-14" diameters and I would guess about 40-50 feet away to the west, so it's possible there's just a mixture of leaves around due to whomever raked in the fall.

On the tree in question, there appear to be some trees growing 'out' of the main branch  - which I'm wondering if this does sometimes happen naturally - or if this might be a case of someone doing what is called 'grafting' on the tree.

I'm not sure if the size of the walnut shells are telling at all, but most of the shells were partials but would appear to be about the size of a golf ball if full sized. 

In my limited knowledge of twig ID, the twig picture attached is one I actually got from the main part of the tree, by jumping up and pulling it off.  It appears to me to have more of a reddish tint than the characteristic chocolate brown, and I also don't really see the little white hairs that I've read are usually around the buds. 

I don't think this is a veneer quality log, but it is huge, and if I have a place to put it and perhaps mill it and it is in fact walnut I would think it'd be worth something, that we can factor into the price that we choose to bid on the house.

The other thing I'm noticing is that there are a mixture of the leaves that are more broad leaf and skinny leafs, note that in some of the pictures those are more of the skinny leafs and they appears to almost have a tiny walnut growing right out of them?


These last two pictures were not taken by me - I took a screenshot of what was from the county assessor page.  These leaves look too broad to me, and I'm not definitively seeing any fruit on the tree.  There are a couple spots that look like they might be the green fruit husks but it's really hard for me to tell.  There's only so much fidelity in the picture.




rjgoebel

I'm going to post some more thoughts on this -

One of the things I probably should have ruled out was to look more closely around the trees to the west that I mentioned.  I'm just wondering if walnuts got raked around a bit during the fall.

However, I think I vaguely remember that the black walnut doesn't produce nuts every year - rather it alternates so that picture from the assessor page just might not capture them. 

I don't see the characteristic black walnut leaf pattern though clearly enough from the pics....

To me, the leaves so far look most like Ash, however based on the stuff I read about MADbucks, my understanding is that would require an opposite branch orientation which I see it alternating, so again my understanding is that we can rule out the ash even though the leaves look similar.

The leaves to me also look similar to a Cottonwood but I don't see a furrowed enough bark for it to be a cottonwood?

The leaves also have some similarities to aspen but I'm thinking we can rule that out just based on the bark..?

TKehl

Shell looks black walnut to me.  Twigs and leaves do not, but not sure what it is.  Guessing a squirrel, rake, or mower moved the shell to your tree.

One thing to think about is leaves break down at varying speeds.  Oaks seems to take forever and layer up in the woods.  Maples break down fast.  Walnuts are on the faster side and are pretty well broke down by this time of year around here.

What's the location?  Don't need to give away the address of the house, but knowing the state would be helpful.
In the long run, you make your own luck – good, bad, or indifferent. Loretta Lynn

rjgoebel

central IOWA

I agree on everything you've said.  The twig from the actual tree is throwing me for a loop though because I'm having a hard time figuring out what the leaves and twig might be....

Jeff

I find walnts in my yard and have no idea where there is a tree close, big enough to bare nuts. They get carried here somehow.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

curdog

Looks a little Mulberry like to me. Hard to tell from the pictures

nativewolf

Basswood I believe


Very distinctive leaf/flower arrangement.  Also they get big like that.  Premier wood for instruments and turning I think.   

Just my guess and I should know..not guess.  Just don't see much of it here.
Liking Walnut

Jeff

Um... basswood is not an instrument wood, or a desired turning wood. Wood carving, yes.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

rjgoebel

Wow that's awesome.  I also believe it is basswood.  Between the leaf pattern and shape, and the twigs matching both in color and shape in what I've seen - I'm pretty confident we got it.

So that raises the question... Where'd the black walnuts come from?  Do birds carry them?  Raking?  How do I find the local black walnut?

Thanks everyone I really like this forum!

Autocar

Bill

nativewolf

Quote from: Jeff on March 02, 2017, 06:25:54 PM
Um... basswood is not an instrument wood, or a desired turning wood. Wood carving, yes.

Carving wood, there you go.  Knew it was something interesting.  Duck decoys, right?
Liking Walnut

rjgoebel

Thanks everyone - I just looked at the twig pictures for hackberry.  I'm new to this - I feel pretty smug about the basswood ID.  Seems as though it's not super valuable but this is a very large tree.  It looks nice, I guess so I think if we were to bid on the house we would just leave the tree, although would have to cut back a large branch over hanging the front.

TKehl

Quote from: rjgoebel on March 02, 2017, 07:38:34 PM
How do I find the local black walnut?

Hard to explain, but once you ID a few they get real easy to ID.  This time of year, I'd look around at the tree tops from a distance.  Most Black Walnut trees look extra "sticky" (not like adhesive, like a stick) this time of year.  The terminal branches are thicker than most and they tend to have fewer branches than most.  Shape/branching is more random than most other trees.  Central leader may be somewhat crooked especially if residentially grown. 

Occasionally, I'll have one where the bark looks kind of like a weird Elm until I look up at the branches and say ah ha, Walnut.

Once you ID a few, you'll start to see them everywhere.
In the long run, you make your own luck – good, bad, or indifferent. Loretta Lynn

Ljohnsaw

Quote from: TKehl on March 03, 2017, 09:58:15 AM
Quote from: rjgoebel on March 02, 2017, 07:38:34 PM
How do I find the local black walnut?
Once you ID a few, you'll start to see them everywhere.

Hmmm, I wish that would work out here :D  It would be nice if they were growing wild up on my property.  We can't even seem to grow a straight oak out here. :-\  So I'm stuck with big pines - I guess that will have to do.
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

TKehl

Quote from: ljohnsaw on March 03, 2017, 10:16:01 AM
Quote from: TKehl on March 03, 2017, 09:58:15 AM
Quote from: rjgoebel on March 02, 2017, 07:38:34 PM
How do I find the local black walnut?
Once you ID a few, you'll start to see them everywhere.

Hmmm, I wish that would work out here :D  It would be nice if they were growing wild up on my property.  We can't even seem to grow a straight oak out here. :-\  So I'm stuck with big pines - I guess that will have to do.

Oh, it will still work.  You just have to ask Harvey the 6 foot tall white rabbit to stop blocking your view.   :D
In the long run, you make your own luck – good, bad, or indifferent. Loretta Lynn

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