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Author Topic: Home made sawmill mods.  (Read 2624 times)

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Offline Clover

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Re: Home made sawmill mods.
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2017, 08:25:03 pm »
Yes it does have an internal check valve. Depending on the type or model the pressure it takes to overcome the check is different and or adjustable. They also have the benefit of not allowing a hydraulic motor to drop when opening a valve and the pressure and flow is to low.

Having a working knowledge doesn't mean I'm a hydraulic specialist LOL. I still get nervous I've got it right until that second it's actually in operation.
The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

Home made 30 hp sawmill all hydraulic, stihl 026, 170, pioneer 65, John Deere 955 with home made forks. And a whole slew of other tools

Offline Kbeitz

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Re: Home made sawmill mods.
« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2017, 09:11:41 pm »
Collector and builder of many things.
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Offline Clover

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Re: Home made sawmill mods.
« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2017, 10:00:00 pm »
Thanks kbeitz. I was thinking of a single valve pilot just on the lowering side of the motor. They are a lot cheaper  :-\
The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

Home made 30 hp sawmill all hydraulic, stihl 026, 170, pioneer 65, John Deere 955 with home made forks. And a whole slew of other tools

Offline Kbeitz

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Re: Home made sawmill mods.
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2017, 08:08:15 am »
Thanks kbeitz. I was thinking of a single valve pilot just on the lowering side of the motor. They are a lot cheaper  :-\

Could be hard on things if you forget to open it.
Collector and builder of many things.
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Offline Clover

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Re: Home made sawmill mods.
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2017, 09:09:50 am »
It opens automatically with the opening of the spool valve. You don't even know it's there it just holds the load in place until it hits a preset presure. The one I'm looking at, if I even need it, is preset at 75 psi to release.
The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

Home made 30 hp sawmill all hydraulic, stihl 026, 170, pioneer 65, John Deere 955 with home made forks. And a whole slew of other tools

Offline Clover

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Re: Home made sawmill mods.
« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2017, 10:53:39 pm »
Did some more research on the pilot valve and I'm not sure it would work in this situation. Basically what would happen is if a pilot valve opened at 75 psi but once the motor started to move the pressure would drop and the valve would close. It would chatter in a sense. Say I'm trying to slightly lower the head the pressure would not be high enough to hold the valve open so it would open and shut very quickly and chatter. I'm going to have to put some more thought into this for sure.
The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

Home made 30 hp sawmill all hydraulic, stihl 026, 170, pioneer 65, John Deere 955 with home made forks. And a whole slew of other tools

Offline Joe Hillmann

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Re: Home made sawmill mods.
« Reply #26 on: March 07, 2017, 10:25:57 am »
Did some more research on the pilot valve and I'm not sure it would work in this situation. Basically what would happen is if a pilot valve opened at 75 psi but once the motor started to move the pressure would drop and the valve would close. It would chatter in a sense. Say I'm trying to slightly lower the head the pressure would not be high enough to hold the valve open so it would open and shut very quickly and chatter. I'm going to have to put some more thought into this for sure.

What about skipping the hydraulic motor all together, keeping the chain and sprocket and bar across the top to keep everything tied together and just using a hydraulic ram on one side with the pilot valve in it?

Offline Rougespear

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Re: Home made sawmill mods.
« Reply #27 on: March 07, 2017, 10:32:29 am »
I saw a manufacturer do just that, use a hyd ram that simply pulled on the chain... but you already have the hyd motor.  My opinion: test and see how if works just how you have it.  If you find you have problematic creep, it would not be difficult to incorporate a 30:1 gearbox into the design in the future.
Custom built Cook's-style hydraulic bandmill.

Offline Clover

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Re: Home made sawmill mods.
« Reply #28 on: March 07, 2017, 12:47:46 pm »
There are many ways to get this head moving up and down. I thought about using a cylinder but it also presents different challenges to make it work well. The pilot valve would do the same thing with a cylinder. As it requires next to no pressure to lower a heavy weight we'd be back in the same situation with the pilot valve opening and closing. To be honest I don't see the drifting to be much of a problem. I've got another taper roller at the end of my log bed that I don't use. After running the hydraulics for 5-6 hours it will drift open about a half of an inch. That works out to 0.000462962962963 inches of movement in 20 seconds. I would think I would need to be more concerned with the actual log moving more than the head dropping. It is all trial and error thought until it's been done at least once LOL
The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

Home made 30 hp sawmill all hydraulic, stihl 026, 170, pioneer 65, John Deere 955 with home made forks. And a whole slew of other tools

Offline Clover

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Re: Home made sawmill mods.
« Reply #29 on: March 11, 2017, 09:16:29 pm »
Had a test run with the added hydraulics today. After bleeding the auto clutch hydraulic cylinder it worked nice and smooth. The head raise and lower speed is almost perfect just a tad on the slow side for me but ten times faster than the winch I had before. Any faster it probably wouldn't be practical for a home made mill though. As for head creep I marked the mill with the head suspended and I am getting a bit after a minute. Not enough to bother in a cut but if I set my height and got sidetracked for a few seconds before cutting it would effect it. But that's not the biggest problem. When the hydraulics are turned off and you open the spool valve it won't lower slowly it'll come crashing down. Ask me how I know  :o. So tomorrow I'm going to pick up my new double pilot valve. I'm more concerned about safety than anything else. Someone could be seriously hurt if that thing crashes because I forgot to lower it before powering down.
Did I mention how much a pain it is to run four lengths of 64' hydraulics hose to a head and suspended cable.
The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

Home made 30 hp sawmill all hydraulic, stihl 026, 170, pioneer 65, John Deere 955 with home made forks. And a whole slew of other tools

Offline DDW_OR

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Re: Home made sawmill mods.
« Reply #30 on: March 14, 2017, 04:07:45 pm »
Thanks for the pictures DDW. How is the flow control plumbed? I've got a flow control on my mill but it will slow the flow of oil in both directions. I was going to just remove it as it is always wide open and I just feather the control valve to get the best cutting speed. On the return I pull back all the way.

 

 

the speed control looks like it was custom made for Timberking
 

  

I use and old wheelchair as a tool cart. I just put a large cardboard box in the seat and go.


 
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Offline DDW_OR

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Re: Home made sawmill mods.
« Reply #31 on: March 14, 2017, 04:20:01 pm »
There are many ways to get this head moving up and down.........

TK uses two chains, two gears on a shaft and a Hydraulic motor

FYI - this photo is for the carriage movement forward/back, but you get the idea
 

 
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Offline Clover

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Re: Home made sawmill mods.
« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2017, 06:16:27 pm »
DDW why do they have the carriage forward and reverse motor at the top of the head? 
The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

Home made 30 hp sawmill all hydraulic, stihl 026, 170, pioneer 65, John Deere 955 with home made forks. And a whole slew of other tools

Offline Clover

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Re: Home made sawmill mods.
« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2017, 06:29:24 pm »
I got a few more things done on the mill. It's been blowing and snd snowing like crazy the last few days so it's been a bit slow. I had to make up my switch plate for energizing my idle solenoid and my lube pump. I'm using a relay off of the switch so when the switch is on it powers my solenoid and when off the relay powers my pump. (87 and 87a on the relay). The switch will slide back on a spring loaded plate if I over do it with the declutching hydraulic cylinder. I thought about an electric clutch but couldn't find one with enough power. It does look like TK uses them. Anyone have information on them?





The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

Home made 30 hp sawmill all hydraulic, stihl 026, 170, pioneer 65, John Deere 955 with home made forks. And a whole slew of other tools

Offline Clover

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Re: Home made sawmill mods.
« Reply #34 on: March 17, 2017, 08:43:48 pm »
Sometimes I'm that moth that keeps flying into the porch light, ain't too smart. Well I was warned and didn't listen. Soooo.... Now I'm installing a right angle 30-1 gear box at the head of the mill. It was still dropping from internal leakage by about an 8th of an inch over a minute. The only way to hold that head with a hydraulic motor alone is to get one with an internal brake mechanism and I don't even want to ask how much. It's not a complete bust as it will be about 500 cheaper as I've already got a small displacement hyd motor and just a small modification to the mount. I can return the motor and pilot valve that I had bought and the gear box was less than a quarter of those. Hopefully tomorrow I'll be back cutting as logs are building up.
The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

Home made 30 hp sawmill all hydraulic, stihl 026, 170, pioneer 65, John Deere 955 with home made forks. And a whole slew of other tools

Offline Magicman

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Re: Home made sawmill mods.
« Reply #35 on: March 17, 2017, 09:00:49 pm »
I am hoping that your new gearbox has a worm gear.
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Offline Clover

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Re: Home made sawmill mods.
« Reply #36 on: March 17, 2017, 09:26:42 pm »
Definitely a worm gear MM. Once burned twice shy kinda thing. There is a reason sawmill companies do it that way  ::) so will I LOL. Just kinda like pullin the blade through a cut (no I didn't make that mistake)
The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

Home made 30 hp sawmill all hydraulic, stihl 026, 170, pioneer 65, John Deere 955 with home made forks. And a whole slew of other tools

Offline Rougespear

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Re: Home made sawmill mods.
« Reply #37 on: March 18, 2017, 12:10:52 pm »
Right on Clover... I'm happy to hear you're going this direction.  If it means anything: if I every redo my head lift, I will be changing from the ACME thread to a 30:1 gearbox... I think you made a wise decision.
Custom built Cook's-style hydraulic bandmill.

Offline york

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Re: Home made sawmill mods.
« Reply #38 on: March 18, 2017, 12:31:10 pm »
Yes,smart move-your lift chain,what # is it 40 or 50 ?? Will be interesting to see how you mount the HYD. motor to the Gear reducer...
Albert

Offline Clover

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Re: Home made sawmill mods.
« Reply #39 on: March 18, 2017, 07:33:44 pm »
York the lift and drive chains are 60. The drive from the hydraulic motor is 40. My head is super heavy. Lots of steel, the motor plate is 1/2" plate and lots of 3x3" tube for my wheel mounts.

I worked on the mill for about 6 hours today and got the new gearbox and hyd motor mounted. The first test lift was an excellent success. If I didn't already have the hydraulic motor I would have gotten one a little bigger (displacement) and did a different chain drive ratio but it does work properly now and doesn't drift down.








The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

Home made 30 hp sawmill all hydraulic, stihl 026, 170, pioneer 65, John Deere 955 with home made forks. And a whole slew of other tools