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Elm

Started by Woodcutter_Mo, February 22, 2017, 09:49:02 AM

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Woodcutter_Mo

Last summer we lost well over 40 decent size oaks and a couple Elm and Ash trees in a random storm.

There's 1 prety fair size American Elm that I was flipping the idea of trying to saw out some large slabs for work benches ect. I've never tried sawing Elm but I've heared it likes to warp. Is there any tricks to sawing it to keep it from warping and cupping or is it a case where you just have to "wing it" and hope for the best?

If nothing else I'll just attempt to use it for firewood, but may have to use the sawmill as the splitter if it splits like the typical elm I've ran into :o  :D
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69bronco

I've had decent luck with elm, a lot depends on if it grew out in the open or in the woods. Yard tree I'd cut heavy and stack in the bottom of the pile, then resaw when dry.

Woodcutter_Mo

Quote from: 69bronco on February 22, 2017, 11:34:57 AM
I've had decent luck with elm, a lot depends on if it grew out in the open or in the woods. Yard tree I'd cut heavy and stack in the bottom of the pile, then resaw when dry.

Ok, this one is in  some fairly thick woods down near a creek bed.
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69bronco

Should be good, I think it's purdy wood!

bandmiller2

Elm is a very strong wood it resists impact. Remember the old wood pickup beds most were made of elm. Good for wagon beds and truck sideboards will take a licken. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Andries

Quote from: 69bronco on February 22, 2017, 11:34:57 AM
I've had decent luck with elm . .  .   .  I'd cut heavy and stack in the bottom of the pile, then resaw when dry.
I'd agree with bronco, not too worried about where it grew.
Cut heavy, air dry and re-saw.
It's pretty, tough and has a mind of it's own, but worth it. ;)
No, I'm not talking' about the gal I live with .
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paul case

I think it saws into some ok lumber and it is usually easy to saw. I have sawn a few for ties and pallet lumber.

I wouldnt bother with it for firewood.
My gpa used to say ''If I  just had one more rick of elm, I could maybe put out hell''.

PC
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
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Woodcutter_Mo

 Thanks for the replys. I'll go investigate the tree a little better this tomorrow. If I do saw it out, I was planning to use it for a work bench top to mount a vice on ect. Sounds like it would be good for that.

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Don P

I made my workbench top down in the barn out of black gum, it has pretty much the same habits but those woods make for a tough top. The rest went into dimensional firewood to help air condition the shop (I like Paul's old saying  ;D)

ozarkgem

Quote from: paul case on February 22, 2017, 10:21:20 PM
I think it saws into some ok lumber and it is usually easy to saw. I have sawn a few for ties and pallet lumber.

I wouldnt bother with it for firewood.
My gpa used to say ''If I  just had one more rick of elm, I could maybe put out hell''.

PC
I like burning Elm. The trick is to cut it just as the bark falls off a dead one. Burns hot.
Are you still cutting a lot of ties or did you get cut back?
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TKehl

We burn a lot of Elm in our furnace.  Not the greatest, but we are doing TSI on our timber and let the goats eat the leaves and sprouts.  Better as firewood than in the way in the woods.

Red Elm is the best Elm and does burn hot.  I've started leaving these though as the bark is worth something in the herbal markets.  I'm trying pollarding (coppice with a high stump out of goat/cattle reach) these to see if I can get decent bark production. 

American Elm (*iss Elm).  Holds sap about forever.  If cut and dried two years it's less bad.  Longer is better.  Creosote maker extraordinaire.  We have an outdoor furnace with short (accessible) chimney so we still burn it.  Works great in mild to kind of cold weather (wife can't overload the stove), but won't keep the house warm if it goes below 20°F outside.  Then we switch to our Oak/Locust/Hedge stash.

Standing/leaning dead Elm for many years are almost always worth cutting.  We seem to have a lot of them as the forest transitions.

I wont' burn any elm that won't fit through the stove door (12"x12") as it's not worth splitting.  Not a lot get that big anyway, and the ones that do I generally want to mill.
In the long run, you make your own luck – good, bad, or indifferent. Loretta Lynn

Woodcutter_Mo

 My dad burns some elm in his outdoor furnace. It don't burn very hot but it does seem to hold coals fairly well. That is a good saying Paul  :D, I'll have to remember that one.

And Don P- I bet that black gum worked good for a workbench top, we have quite a few black gum trees around here but I hardly ever mess with them. I do know they are extremely hard to split as well.
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paul case

Quote from: ozarkgem on February 23, 2017, 07:00:22 AM
Quote from: paul case on February 22, 2017, 10:21:20 PM
I think it saws into some ok lumber and it is usually easy to saw. I have sawn a few for ties and pallet lumber.

I wouldnt bother with it for firewood.
My gpa used to say ''If I  just had one more rick of elm, I could maybe put out hell''.

PC
I like burning Elm. The trick is to cut it just as the bark falls off a dead one. Burns hot.
Are you still cutting a lot of ties or did you get cut back?
Still able to cut and sell them and last I knew the price is the same. The buyer said that They are back to being real picky and want the heart in every tie. I never knew they werent picky.

I bet that elm will make a nice hard workbench top for you. You got nothing to loose by trying it .
PC
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

Brad_bb

What slab you cut doesn't warp some?  You just saw it thick enough to account for the thickness you want plus the warp.  Then you leave it to dry for a year or more then plane it flat.  I say a year cause that is all I wait for a cant or a timber to stabilize for a timberframe.  I either plane and use the timber totally green , or weight a year and plane it square.  It's done the majority of it's moving in a year.  For furniture though, It can still shrink after that.  Furniture has to be drier.
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Woodcutter_Mo

 I had a tree ID. fail  :-\. Today I waded through the brush and got a better look at the tree. At a better look, I believe this is a hackberry. The log looks to be around 20-24" and close to 20' long.
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TKehl

Oooohhhh...  To spalt or not to spalt.  That is the question. 

Even if you cut the main trunk now, I see a mostly exposed root ball begging for spalted figure!
In the long run, you make your own luck – good, bad, or indifferent. Loretta Lynn

Brad_bb

Yes, that is Hackberry.  You can still slab it, or mill a beam out of it, or use it for flooring.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

paul case

I like hack better than elm anyway. I made the cants for my flatbed out of hack and they are tough and have gotten light. It may twist cup and warp some so if you are gona dry it cut it a little bigger so you can saw it to the size you want when it dries and moves some.

I have sawn a lot of hackberry and it saws real nice. White wood.

PC
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

Woodcutter_Mo

Quote from: TKehl on February 23, 2017, 09:52:29 PM
Oooohhhh...  To spalt or not to spalt.  That is the question. 

Even if you cut the main trunk now, I see a mostly exposed root ball begging for spalted figure!

I have thought about trying to spalt some lumber, any tips on doing that? I've read a little about it in the past but couldn't make much sense of it.

Quote from: Brad_bb on February 23, 2017, 10:54:12 PM
Yes, that is Hackberry.  You can still slab it, or mill a beam out of it, or use it for flooring.

I didn't think about flooring, I will eventually be re-flooring most of my house and that log would probably be a good start if it's good.

Quote from: paul case on February 23, 2017, 11:00:33 PM
I like hack better than elm anyway. I made the cants for my flatbed out of hack and they are tough and have gotten light. It may twist cup and warp some so if you are gona dry it cut it a little bigger so you can saw it to the size you want when it dries and moves some.

I have sawn a lot of hackberry and it saws real nice. White wood.

PC

I've never cut hackberry lumber but I've read it resembles Ash and has some similar characteristics to Elm as well.
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TKehl

Quote from: Woodcutter_Mo on February 24, 2017, 10:41:11 AM
Quote from: TKehl on February 23, 2017, 09:52:29 PM
Oooohhhh...  To spalt or not to spalt.  That is the question. 

Even if you cut the main trunk now, I see a mostly exposed root ball begging for spalted figure!

I have thought about trying to spalt some lumber, any tips on doing that? I've read a little about it in the past but couldn't make much sense of it.

How to spalt is one of those rare cases where there are lots of opinions and most of them are RIGHT.  Spalting is caused by fungus and is basically the start of rotting.  Think moist, but not soaked.  Cut a slice off periodically to check progress.  If it goes too far than all you have is punk.  The trick is finding

The simplest is to cut the logs off and leave them set on the ground a while.  Not sure it really has to be cut, but it really only works if it's dead and cutting the log does the trick there.  I have some spalted Hackberry I'm going to cut into turning blanks.  Dad was clearing a spot two summers ago, and chunked the trunks into short logs, then piled them off the ground for firewood.  We were splitting them this winter when I saw the spalting.  The wood dried too quick to get very deep spalting, but this was a happy accident more than anything.  I've done the same with Cherry and Elm.  Hackberry is great due to the contrast of white wood and dark spalt lines.

There are people having success dead stacking boards as well, but I haven't tried that yet.
In the long run, you make your own luck – good, bad, or indifferent. Loretta Lynn

Woodcutter_Mo

 Thanks for the info, I might give "spalting" a shot, atleast on part of the log. This hackberry has been blown down since July of last year (July 6, 2016 to be exact) so I might go ahead and cut it off the root ball and see how it looks and decide from there. I'll post up what I find out and let ya'll know what I decide to do with it  :).
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petefrom bearswamp

I have a friend that calls me when one of his Elm dies.
I have no problems sawing and drying it so far but sometimes it is fairly dry on th estump.
As far as firewood the old poem says "Elmwood burns like churchyard mold, een the very flames seem cold.
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trapper

Elm firewood works good for me.  I dont cut the tree down until the bark has fallen off for a year.  Until the bark is off they are worth more to me for to find morels.  Many times the small top branches are dry enough to burn as soon as the tree is cut. Closer to the base of the tree it needs to be split and dry a year.  With the bark on it never wants to dry.
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Magicman

I have a big old Elm log to saw tomorrow.  Looked to be about 24".   :-\
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pidaster

I sawed my first elm a few days ago. Looks nice.
Should have changed my blade before sawing it.

Woodcutter_Mo

Quote from: Magicman on February 26, 2017, 03:54:49 PM
I have a big old Elm log to saw tomorrow.  Looked to be about 24".   :-\
Quote from: pidaster on February 26, 2017, 04:18:14 PM
I sawed my first elm a few days ago. Looks nice.
Should have changed my blade before sawing it.

You guys can feel free to post a couple pics of the sawed elm boards of you'd like. Even though this didn't end being an elm tree that I had, I'll probably run into an elm in the future since there are quite a few out in my woods and I still would like to make an elm work bench :)
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Magicman

The Elm did not get sawed today, but it is first in line for tomorrow. 
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

moodnacreek

In spite of all elm,s problems it is one of our most beautiful hardwoods. It is my favorite. Elm will sand like glass, it,s almost iridescent. Without a kiln it is hard to dry for indoor use.


































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