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Author Topic: Engineering for agriculture barn  (Read 973 times)

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Offline Cazzhrdwd

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Engineering for agriculture barn
« on: February 17, 2017, 08:03:50 pm »
In my miserable county I have to get a permit to build Ag structures, even horse run-in sheds. This causes a problem because when the inspector comes out to inspect, he doesn't see typical Home Depot lumber, he sees my sawmill cut lumber. So they want me to get it engineered.

Does anyone know of a cheap way to get this done?
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Offline Don P

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Re: Engineering for agriculture barn
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2017, 11:52:53 pm »
Confirm from outside the building department that you do not have an ag exemption. Trust but verify. They probably want it graded to determine its engineering strengths. That is a lumber grader. In my county, and others, the inspector allows an engineer to grade... not that engineers know anything about grading but they do have great insurance, which you will pay for.

Do they want a professional design? If so the engineer is one stop shopping. I don't know of a cheap way, or even affordable if you don't have favors to call in.

Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: Engineering for agriculture barn
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2017, 11:54:13 pm »
Inspectors are not engineers (and are not willing to take on that liability).  You could draw up some plans (like I did) and have an engineer inspect and stamp them.  Then the inspector has to allow you to do whatever the plans specify.  So, just specify on your plan that you will be utilizing rough cut native wood.  I happen to use Fire Tower Engineered Timber out of Rhode Island.  Ben has a engineering license for California.

I designed and drew my cabin with SketchUp/Layout.  I maintained the model, making changes and notes as directed.  Probably took 4 or 5 weeks of back and forth but I didn't have to shell out money for a Architect or Draftsman.
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Offline Cazzhrdwd

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Re: Engineering for agriculture barn
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2017, 03:26:53 pm »
Yeah, I will draw my own, just want them to give me sizing and slap their name on it.
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Offline S.Hyland

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Re: Engineering for agriculture barn
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2017, 08:16:17 pm »
In NY sometimes I have to get the sawmill to sign a form stating that the lumber is No. 2 or better. Sounds like that won't be helpful in your case though.
You have my deepest sympathy anyhow! That sounds like pure madness to deal with. I'll bet it's some law meant to deal with mega-corporate farms that ends up blanket applied to everyone.
“It may be that when we no longer know which way to go that we have come to our real journey. The mind that is not baffled is not employed. The impeded stream is the one that sings.”
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Offline Don P

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Re: Engineering for agriculture barn
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2017, 09:32:01 pm »
NY has a native lumber law... you can use it in a residence as well. The sawyer is accepting liability. I can pretty much guarantee my insurance would not cover me so think it through. On the flip side if an officially graded stick of lumber fails all they owe you is a new stick, even if someone died.

Cazz, read this;
http://mdfarmbureau.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/4/2014/01/CAE.pdf
Farm Bureau helps with these issues.
Our ag exemption is similar to this. I am now a registered land disturber, that is how my state handled the issues they talk about.

If you are granted a right it must be defended or it will quietly be lost.
I should get a T shirt with "Registered Disturber" on it.

Offline flyingparks

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Re: Engineering for agriculture barn
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2017, 03:37:42 pm »
I'm in agreement with everyone here. The best way is to draw up your own plans and have an engineer sign it. I would be fairly specific so the engineer won't have to do much but stamp. Here in Boulder County, CO loafing sheds don't require a permit or engineer. Same with 120 sq ft structures.

Offline Heartwood

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Re: Engineering for agriculture barn
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2017, 05:36:33 pm »
A word of caution here:
In most states, engineers, like architects, may legally only stamp documents prepared by another if they actively oversee the development of the document and retain control over the final product. They are assuming substantial responsibility for the project. That said, it's fairly common for some leeway, especially if the engineer knows the client, is reasonably confident in their ability and willing to accept the risk. But don't assume that it's standard practice or be surprised if engineers decline to do it.

Offline Don P

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Re: Engineering for agriculture barn
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2017, 09:15:26 pm »
Agreed, it is actually illegal for a registered design pro to "stamp" plans drawn by another. They can lose their license for "stamping". Phrasing your request with that in mind helps. That said, the first question is usually "what do you want to do?" I then pull out my plan and show him what I want to do.

I design conservatively, generally I spec the same thing the engineer does, sometimes the next size heavier. I can only recall one time when the engineer called out something heavier than my callout and he said he was being very conservative in that instance. That has worked in my favor. The building officials also know I run more conservative than the engineers, which translates to latitude.

To clarify another legal point, it rarely happens but the inspector trumps the engineer. He can say "try again". This recognizes that everyone makes mistakes and he is one more set of eyes.