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Author Topic: Cost to run a Nyle L53 or a L22 kiln  (Read 1267 times)

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Offline Tree Dan

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Cost to run a Nyle L53 or a L22 kiln
« on: February 15, 2017, 09:46:53 am »
How much extra $ was tagged on to your electric bill when you added a L53 or the L200.
I had dreams to have one of these kilns someday, but was told that my electric bill will sky rocket.
I understand that we may pay different KPH but at the end of the month how much extra did it cost?
Wood Mizer LT40HD, Kubota KX71, New Holland LS150, Case TR270
6400 John Deere/with loader,General 20" planer, Stihl 880, Stihl 361, Dolmar 460, Husqvarna 50  and a few shovels,
60" and 30" Log Rite cant hooks, 2 home built Tree Spades, Homemade log splitter

Offline WDH

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Re: Cost to run a Nyle L53 or a L22 kiln
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2017, 08:27:13 pm »
For me with the L53, about $80/month.
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5640SU, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Offline longtime lurker

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Re: Cost to run a Nyle L53 or a L22 kiln
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2017, 04:56:09 am »
Drying air dried hardwood from around 16% to 8%, running pretty much 24/7 with the only shut downs to unload & reload a fresh charge... approx 15 minutes per cycle time... The L53 added about $250 a month to the power bill. Power cost about $0.30 per kWh. Worked out at about $25 per cubic meter, most of which was the heater unit bringing the charge up to working temp.

Forget the power bill, its negligible compared with the increased value of the lumber. I got it as a short run kiln for stuff I didn't want tying up the other unit.. the only regret I have now is not going to an L300 and replacing the other unit.
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

Offline GeneWengert-WoodDoc

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Re: Cost to run a Nyle L53 or a L22 kiln
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2017, 07:19:04 pm »
I agree that the L300 is more versatile (can be used for many different species and thickness, can sterilize, etc.) and likely more durable too.  Of course the initial cost is high and electrical connections may be expensive.  So, it is not right for everyone.

For air dried hardwoods, the energy use is maybe 200-300 kWh per MBF.  It depends primarily on initial average moisture content and wood density...higher MCs and denser woods use more than the low MC and low density.  Multiply this times your electric rate. 

In many cases, there is the basic electric rate, say $.15 per kWh.  Then there may be a small meter charge, and a small reactive charge.  Plus sometimes there is a demand charge that can be equivalent to another $.15 per kWh.  This is terrible.

The demand is based on the maximum usage during a certain time period, like 30 minutes.  There are ways to lower the demand by using demand meters.  The highest demand charge in one month can be the demand that is used for the next 9 months even though the actual is less.  Some power companies can sell electricity cheaper to operations with constant demand, like a DH unit.  Most electric companies have engineers to help control electric costs for industrial operations, big or small.  University extension offices also can help; contact your county extension office to get the right contacts.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Offline Den Socling

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Re: Cost to run a Nyle L53 or a L22 kiln
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2017, 09:54:08 pm »
It's a darn shame about all of this air drying. One time I was in the yard of maybe the biggest and most successful conventionally drying oak companies in the US. They had end checks big enough to stick your fingers in. We, as you know, dry from green There is no over cut to trim off end checks.
 

 
12/4 White Oak and we didn't even use end sealer.

Offline longtime lurker

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Re: Cost to run a Nyle L53 or a L22 kiln
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2017, 10:09:33 pm »
Now you're just bragging Den.

And why not - you should be!!!
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

Offline Den Socling

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Re: Cost to run a Nyle L53 or a L22 kiln
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2017, 10:37:49 pm »
Thank you!

I would add that Garrett did a cost analysis a couple years ago. He added fuel and electricity. Fuel oil was $3.68 at the time. He added high and low kW cost. Price of drying was $0.06 to $0.12 per BF. Why dry any other way? I wish the initial investment wasn't so high because so many people want vac kilns. But I can't get any lower. I made the VK3.0 high volume, low profit and we have sold a lot of them.

Offline Den Socling

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Re: Cost to run a Nyle L53 or a L22 kiln
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2017, 11:17:30 pm »
If you are drying 4/4 or 6/4, any old way is fine. Some of you but not many can even do a good job with 8/4.

Offline Tree Dan

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Re: Cost to run a Nyle L53 or a L22 kiln
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2017, 10:54:46 am »
I think we are around the 15 cent pkh here.
Running the L53 between $80 and $150 is not all that bad
And im guessing the L22 could be around the $250 to $350 at 15 cents PKH.

Thanks guys
Wood Mizer LT40HD, Kubota KX71, New Holland LS150, Case TR270
6400 John Deere/with loader,General 20" planer, Stihl 880, Stihl 361, Dolmar 460, Husqvarna 50  and a few shovels,
60" and 30" Log Rite cant hooks, 2 home built Tree Spades, Homemade log splitter

Offline Den Socling

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Re: Cost to run a Nyle L53 or a L22 kiln
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2017, 11:37:30 pm »
I have never operated a DH kiln but I have designed and installed a bunch of DH controllers. Some went on obviously nice kilns and other kilns that looked like crap but still dried wood. I'm curious. Is there a difference in operating cost between winter and summer? Insulation make a big difference? What about high ambient humidity?

Offline longtime lurker

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Re: Cost to run a Nyle L53 or a L22 kiln
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2017, 12:33:36 am »
We're tropical and very humid. Tropical is relative I guess, but I can remember a light frost happening when I was a kid so.. winter is cold for me, somewhere in the mid 60's I guess. 8)

I'm a delicate topical flower, what can I say?

HArd to compare with elsewhere without some experience elsewhere on DH units. I skimped on the insulation given the climate, maybe too much so. The humidity probably helps kick the compressor in earlier, but I've got real good seals so leakage isn't an issue that way. I'd probably put a wood fired heat exchanger loop in for the preheat part of the cycle, given that I mostly load at around 16-20% MC with 50% larger then recommended charges ( to keep my drying rate low given my refractory species) it spends near as much time bringing the charge up to working temp as it does removing the bit of water I need out.  Degrade is a lot lower then I'm used to with the low temp conventionals.

I would probably benefit from having sprays fitted for reconditioning, but that's being picky. I just toss 2x 4 gal buckets of water on the floor and change my setpoints to make it sweat a little for a while before setting to final. I've had a bit of case hardening but the water trick seems to have got that under control.

They're a good small kiln, no doubt about it. Freight landing it here cost more then the kiln unit but it's paid its way. Grossed total setup cost in the first 24 days of operation: don't get much better then that. It was kind of a test bed for us, I think it's about the second unit nyle put into Australia, and the only complaints are from the other local mills that used to kiln my overflow. Had I known it would be this good I'd have gone with a 200 or 300 for sure.

It's still not a Vac Kiln though: I lost a $60k flooring order last week because there was no way to deliver on their schedule given the trees still have leaves on them and there's no way I could have logged, sawn, and dried in 12 weeks without huge degrade to the "no guarantee it'd make grade" level. That one hurt!
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

Offline Den Socling

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Re: Cost to run a Nyle L53 or a L22 kiln
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2017, 05:30:21 am »
Some of your wood in Australia is very hard to dry. I'm not sure how much a vac kiln can rush some Eucalyptus but certainly faster than air drying and a DH kiln. I've looked at a lot under a microscope and there us just no easy way for water to get out.

Offline longtime lurker

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Re: Cost to run a Nyle L53 or a L22 kiln
« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2017, 07:27:16 pm »
Yah well it wasnt serious dollars because it was anything easy: Turpentine Syncarpia glomulifera.

Hard, heavy, tight grained, collapse prone, very high shrinkage rates (13% tangental, 6.5% radial)... everything it takes to make life difficult. I kinda accidentally found a way to get it to dry collapse free but its a slow process and we're talking at least 6-9 months air drying to even think about getting a 4/4 board to EMC safely. On the bit we've run so far the major issue we're facing is grain tearout through the moulder and I suspect its related to shell hardening. The current batch I'm playing with pre surfacing to see if that makes a difference.

We're cutting an odd coloured (for turp) stand of it with pretty exceptional figure. I can get enough of the stuff for the next couple years I'd like to figure a way through it, though probably not enough to make it worth outlaying big dollars for that alone. (usual story for a small mill)

 

  

 

Pretty isn't it? And you can jump on it in stiletto heels and not mark it at all, which is the perfect floor spec.

Meh, behind this missed job will be another but it'd be nice to put a floor in this stuff out into a highly visible place. Dont need a lot of jobs like that a year to keep a roof over our heads and thats exactly where I'm trying to go business wise - the  guy with the stuff no-one else has got for the people with more money then sense. :D
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

Offline Den Socling

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Re: Cost to run a Nyle L53 or a L22 kiln
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2017, 08:16:15 pm »
Yes, that is sure pretty. Your remark about stiletto heels reminds me of Bloodwood. I have little pieces about 1/4" (62mm) square and 3" long laying around the shop. I used to hand them to visitors and ask them to break one. They would look at the little sliver of wood like I was nuts and then they would try to snap it. I don't know how many times I did this but I had only one guy who was successful. I would tell people to stick them in their pocket and then walk into bars and win free beers.  :D

Offline Charles

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Re: Cost to run a Nyle L53 or a L22 kiln
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2017, 09:48:26 pm »
I have the Woodmizer KD 150 computerized version of the Nyle L53 that Nyle makes for Woodmizer. It's the same dehumidifier just a different name in Canada. I also got the computer controlled vent system. (nice)
I air dry before kiln drying so the cost is kept down. If you are going to dry from green naturally your cost will be high. I have a digital kilowatt meter hooked to the kiln so I can get an accurate reading for costing. My kiln is small 600bd/ft.I just dried a bout 350 bd/ft of 5/4 walnut that averaged 35% MC and cost me around $90 for two about two weeks figuring my cost per kilowatt is .25 cents  But just heard it is going up again.

Offline woodweasel

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Re: Cost to run a Nyle L53 or a L22 kiln
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2017, 12:18:52 pm »
I'm waiting on my KD150 to be shipped , hopefully this week. I'm curious what my cost will be here in Texas, once I'm up and running. Gonna insulate under slab before I pour it. Then insulate the metal building really well . Will see what happens. Gonna be bugging you pro kiln guys out there :P :P

Offline Charles

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Re: Cost to run a Nyle L53 or a L22 kiln
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2017, 09:23:32 pm »
my advice on insulation is you can't insulate to much. If I ever build another it will be r-30 and spray foamed to seal it up. It absolutely amazing where heat can escape

Offline Tree Dan

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Re: Cost to run a Nyle L53 or a L22 kiln
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2017, 07:33:57 pm »
We are also due for another hike in hydro here.

I look at it this way....The cost of doing business has gone up
so the customer will be the one paying for it, or a good portion of it.
Its not just the kiln, its the planer, the dust collector, the lights...
We still need the tools to do the job and we still need kilns to dry the lumber.
I think its not just how much or how fast that kiln with dry wood, its also how energy efficient is it.
Wood Mizer LT40HD, Kubota KX71, New Holland LS150, Case TR270
6400 John Deere/with loader,General 20" planer, Stihl 880, Stihl 361, Dolmar 460, Husqvarna 50  and a few shovels,
60" and 30" Log Rite cant hooks, 2 home built Tree Spades, Homemade log splitter

Offline Joey Grimes

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Re: Cost to run a Nyle L53 or a L22 kiln
« Reply #18 on: March 02, 2017, 10:01:16 pm »
Our l53 averages 100-175 power bill per month that's with 1000 watt halogen lights for supplant heat for stearlizing.
94 woodmizer lt40 HD kabota 5200 ford 4000 94 international 4700 flatbed and lots of woodworking tools.