iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Bar oil...

Started by Kbeitz, February 14, 2017, 12:44:42 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Kbeitz

I was reading up on different oils and I ran into this. I thought it was a good read.

Chain saw oil is often "the dregs", or what is left at the bottom of
storage tanks, trucks, tankers, and pipelines after everything else
has been taken off and typically receives no further  processing and
may contain impurities and suspended solids (also known as "grit"). 
Bar oil is intended for 100% loss lubricating systems, to lubricate
for a few seconds and then be thrown off as waste

This is the link...

http://www.southernsteamtrains.com/misc/steam-oil-hwade.htm
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

George Zarifis

Hm, that is interesting... Although I'm pretty sure it goes through some minimal processing, at lest to make it somewhat uniform..
Every man's proble can be solved with a chansaw and high explosives. And a gun. And maybe a screwdriver. A cordless drill wouldn't hurt either.

I think a truck full of tools will do...

Ben Cut-wright

"bar oil is dregs" is very hard to believe.  That author sells live steam lubricants, Steam Cylinder Oil,  (SCO).  Even so,  he states "because it (bar oil)  is probably the most often-mentioned substitute for SCO"  he asked an engineer who said, "a poorer replacement for SCO you could not find".  No surprise there.  MSDS might reveal multiple hazards from lubricants manufactured from these dregs that "typically receive no further processing".

George Zarifis

I think after this I might consider getting bio-degradeable oil next time... Too much of this stuff in my backyard can't be good.
Every man's proble can be solved with a chansaw and high explosives. And a gun. And maybe a screwdriver. A cordless drill wouldn't hurt either.

I think a truck full of tools will do...

Texas-Jim

Well I hate to contradict (ok not really) Bar oil is not the dregs of the oil industry. Not just stihl but other as well. Its refined in Louisiana, most oils are highly refined as well as having additives. Not to mention that stuff is more like grease than oil. Most of it is burned or used in paving.
What we do in life echoes through eternity.

Kbeitz

From another forum...

Yes, chainsaw bar oil has a "tackifier" added that makes it sticky. It's usually made from purge oil which comes from companies making motor oil. When they switch from making one product to another they will have oil in their system which they purge out which ends up being a mix of the old product and the new product and since nothing goes to waste it gets sold to people making bar oil or a few other applications. The guy making the bar oil will add a tackifier at the end of the process, which as others have said makes it stick to the chain and not as easy to sling off

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117789

Another...

Purists tend to argue that brand name oil is more expensive because it has fewer contaminants. Because bar and chain oils are often made from recycled oils with additives to make them thicker,

http://www.toolerant.com/whats-the-best-chainsaw-oil-summary-of-a-heated-debate/

And another...

Vegetable-based bar and chain oil is made from old french fry grease, but it's been reprocessed to address cozy's concerns. Apparently it contains an anti-bacterial to keep it from going bad and some other additives to make it adhere to the hardware. I'm not sure if the antibacterial treatment negates some of the environmental benefits you might expect with a "natural" lubricant. But it probably still beats spraying conventional oil around when you cut wood.

https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/chain-saw-bar-lube-veggie-oil.754/

Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

snowstorm

i couldnt say how others make bar oil . last fall i was invited to tour the irving oil refinery. when i was in the lab at the blending dept. i asked about bar oil. there base stock comes by rail car and if that dosent meet there specs to make motor oil or other oils its used to make bar oil.

HolmenTree

Due to mechanization in the logging industry for the past 30 or more years, that has reduced professional chainsaw use.
I can safely say petroleum based bar oil probably has been degraded somewhat for a less quality concensus weekend consumer market.

Back in the hay day when chainsaw logging was going strong in our region there was a bar oil every logger wanted. It was called Clingtex made by the Texaco oil company.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

snowstorm

my ctl harvester will use 1 gal of bar a day at least. mine runs 404 chain some use 3\4

HolmenTree

Quote from: snowstorm on February 15, 2017, 12:28:18 PM
my ctl harvester will use 1 gal of bar a day at least. mine runs 404 chain some use 3\4
I don't know the ratio but I believe there's alot more non chain harvesters out there.
One processor or buncher working day and night have replaced a great ammount of chainsaws.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Gary_C

Refineries do NOT make bar oil. They make base stocks that are sent out to blending plants who blend these base stocks into the finished goods that customers order. The specs for bar oil are normally set by each customer and only include the viscosity, color, and amount of tackifier in the blend.

In the blending plants, they make batches of motor oil, hydraulic oil, turbine oil, etc. They always make more than enough to fill the containers that are ordered and when they are done filling the containers, all that's left in the mixer and lines is drained into totes for use in the lowest spec oil that is ordered. So when an order comes in for bar oil, these totes are blended along with base stocks to adjust the viscosity. Then a tackifier is added and perhaps a color and you have your bar oil.

Now there are other bar oil suppliers out there that are using filtered used oil to make and sell a low cost bar oil. I bought some of that cheap bar oil one time and found a layer of sludge in the bottom of the jugs so I know it was used oil. You get what you pay for.

Having said that, you do not need to buy the most expensive bar oil from the chain saw dealers as the chain saw manufacturers do not make bar oil. They order it from blending plants just like most everyone else.
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway.

Kbeitz

Here on our Christmas tree farm we have been using way oil
for our chainsaw bars for years with no problems. Way oil, also
known as slide oil, is a type of hydraulic oil with a tackifier. Way
lube is ideal for vertical surfaces and anywhere machine parts
move over the top of each other. It's commonly used as a lubricating
oil for slideways found in planers, drills, saws, grinders, milling
machines, and others.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Kbeitz

I'm playing around trying to find a cheap way to clean old oil.
I would love to buy a Raw Basic Centrifuge but that's around
$1000.00, So for right now I'm trying the syphoning felt trick.
Felt can wick up to around 8".

This is a good write up about wicking felt.

http://metricfelt.com/wicking.html



 
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

George Zarifis

That felt technique seems to be very interesting. I would love to know if it actually works and also how fast it is...
Every man's proble can be solved with a chansaw and high explosives. And a gun. And maybe a screwdriver. A cordless drill wouldn't hurt either.

I think a truck full of tools will do...

Al_Smith

FWIW there is DIY type oil filter that uses rolls of toilet paper stuffed inside a PVC pipe .It's supposed to be a good filter for things like reusing oil although it's rather slow process .

I've never seen much difference in bar oil myself .I just buy what ever is the cheapest .Don't take my word for it,do carry on just like it was the great mix oil debate  8) 8)

George Zarifis

I'm with you. I use stihl synthplus oil. Cheap and reliable (from what I've seen). smiley_balloon_01
Every man's proble can be solved with a chansaw and high explosives. And a gun. And maybe a screwdriver. A cordless drill wouldn't hurt either.

I think a truck full of tools will do...

Al_Smith

Just out of curiosity exactly what is the tacking agent used for chainsaw bar oil and machine way oil .I have no idea myself .

I have heard a mixture of gasoline and liquid soap makes napalm which is jellied gasoline .< that I don't think would be a good option for chainsaw lube . :o

Kbeitz

Quote from: Al_Smith on February 16, 2017, 06:00:00 AM
Just out of curiosity exactly what is the tacking agent used for chainsaw bar oil and machine way oil .I have no idea myself .

I have heard a mixture of gasoline and liquid soap makes napalm which is jellied gasoline .< that I don't think would be a good option for chainsaw lube . :o

Maybe tallow ???  That something I can't find on the web.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

btulloh

You're supposed to get your your tallow by rendering beef fat.  Sounds a bit like starting with bauxite when you need some aluminum to me.  I think I'll keep buying bar oil.

HM126

Gearbox

The company my SIL worked for saved all the flush oil from the truck pumps and hoses . This oil was saved in a 250 tote and the added tackifier for bar and chain . This was called slop oil it was filtered to 10 micron as it went through the pump .
A bunch of chainsaws a BT6870 processer , TC 5 International track skidder and not near enough time

chevytaHOE5674

Quote from: HolmenTree on February 15, 2017, 12:37:15 PM
don't know the ratio but I believe there's alot more non chain harvesters out there.
One processor or buncher working day and night have replaced a great ammount of chainsaws.

It's differently regionally but in the upper midwest where the ctl processor has really taken hold a vast majority of those are bar and chain machines (all running b/c oil). Bunchers aren't nearly as common as they once were and ctl machines with a disc saw are few and far between.

We buy B/C oil in bulk from our saw shop and just today bought 20 gallons, which is 2-3 weeks worth if we work full time.

Kbeitz

I did a lot of searching to see if I could find out what was added to
oil as a tackifier.  This was the best info I could find.

A tackifier is a solution of a copolymer of ethylene and propylene with the property that when mixed with an oil, it makes it sticky or able to cling.

http://www.eastman.com/Markets/Tackifier_Center/Tackifier_Families/Pages/Tackifier_Families.aspx

And this one.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-tackifier.htm


Tackifiers are usually resins (e.g. rosins and their derivates, terpenes and modified terpenes, aliphatic, cycloaliphatic and aromatic resins (C5 aliphatic resins, C9 aromatic resins, and C5/C9 aliphatic/aromatic resins), hydrogenated hydrocarbon resins, and their mixtures, terpene-phenol resins (TPR, used often with ethylene-vinyl acetate adhesives))
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

thutch85

i know of guys who use their used motor oil for bar oil, maybe thats what was going on.

Woodcutter_Mo

 I just use what ever bar oil brand I find cheap. If I see it on sale for a good price I usually pick up a few gallons. Don't matter to me what brand as long as it is bar and chain oil. :)
-WoodMizer LT25
-592XP full wrap, 372XP, 550XP, 455 Rancher, RedMax GZ3500T
-Fixer-uppers/projects:
024AV, MS260, MS361, MS460, Shindaiwa 488, 394XPG

DelawhereJoe

I've found that tractor supply bar & chain oil pumps better/more from my 362 c-m then does the orange jug stihl bar oil. It will keep the chain wet on a 84 drive link chain better then the stihl orange bottle.
WD-40, DUCT TAPE, 024, 026, 362c-m, 041, homelite xl, JD 2510

Al_Smith

It's been said used crankcase oil works about as well as regular chain oil .Fine and dandy.I'm a tight wad but I'm not that tight I can't buy bar and chain oil .

TSC oil seems to work as well as any of them and it's a lot cheaper than others .I've got a buddy,tree trimmer .Buys Stihl oil by the pallet load .It's his money what else can I say .

thecfarm

TSC bar and chain oil,catch it on sale and buy it. I use to have about 20 gallons of it. Might have 30 now.  :)  I've been using it for years,with 2 saws. I go through alot of it. Use it winter and summer.
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

Woodcutter_Mo

 Locally there is a store that had bar oil for $4/gal on sale. I missed the sale or I would have stocked up. I don't remember what the brand was, "Country Tuff" or something along that line. Anyway, that's about as cheap as I ever see it around here. I used to buy bulk bar oil at a farm store which I think was just what was left in their bulk ATF and hydraulic tanks. Was $2.50/gal if I brought my own jug, it worked prety good mixed with summer blend bar/chain oil.
-WoodMizer LT25
-592XP full wrap, 372XP, 550XP, 455 Rancher, RedMax GZ3500T
-Fixer-uppers/projects:
024AV, MS260, MS361, MS460, Shindaiwa 488, 394XPG

ButchC

Quote from: Kbeitz on February 15, 2017, 02:59:13 PM
Here on our Christmas tree farm we have been using way oil


Cheers like thinker ;D. I Also use it but usually blended with other cheap oil. While it cant be argued that "bar oil", at least the spendy type is thicker and slippery lots of years of experience has taught me that most people who think they have a bar oil problem actually have a problem with running dull chains. 4' bars for the loggers might well be a different story but cutting firewood with 24 or shorter a person should confine his worries to keeping the chains sharp, and then any ole oil will suffice,, at least that's my experience.
Peterson JP swing mill
Morbark chipper
Shop built firewood processor
Case W11B
Many chainsaws, axes, hatchets,mauls,
Antique tractors and engines, machine shop,wife, dog,,,,,that's about it.

Thank You Sponsors!