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Digital Readout

Started by Bendavid, December 05, 2004, 06:05:00 PM

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Bendavid

As I have been collecting parts and ideas for building a bandmill I  was wondering if anyone had considered this measuring device (for those who don't have setworks) a log scale with digital readout  Digi-Scale Model 20-4  ($239.)  shown at
http://www.digi-kit.com/digiscale.htm The unit can be cut to  length of the up and down range of you saw head and is resetable to zero after every cut and accurate to.010 inches. The service manual for the unit is on-line in
PDF at http://www.digi-kit.com/downloads/Digi-ScaleM10-20.PDF and gives all the details for installation and operation. The limitation for this unit is that it is not recommended for large machinery? and below freezing temperatures. I called the salesman at Accurate Technology regarding these
and he said that large electric motors could cause electrical interference and the liquid crystal display may be sluggish in freezing temperatures.
The actual display measures 4 1/2 inches wide by 3 1/4 high and the display numbers are 1/2 inch high and could be mounted at eye level or where ever convenient on the saw head.
Any comments?


Jeff

Well, having run a commercial mill for a lot of years with lots of micro switches, limit switches, solenoids and such and dealing with all sorts of electrical problems and break downs. The very most dependable thing on the mill is the mechanical measuring scale. I wouldn't want anything else for the primary scale. Sure a digital readout might be fine to have, but ultimately, cold and heat moisture and shock will make it fail while the mechanical scale just keeps on a keeping on. :)
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

raycon

I agree with Jeff . Whats been more useful for me is making sliding scales. One scale is fixed and reads the height off the log bunk. The other scale slides up and down relative to the fixed scale and has rectangles at 4/4,5/4,6/4. I zero out and drop down what ever I'm milling. Over the year I've made some other scales for odd dimensioned stuff. (Takes having to do math out of it)
I  Plot it out on  legal size paper and use contact cement to hold it to an aluminum scale with slotted mounting holes.
They get ruined in a week or two if I leave the mill uncovered the one I have on there nows been on for a month. Whats useful is I can mark on them with a pencil as welll.
Lot of stuff..

VA-Sawyer

I could make better use of that on my planer. I just might order the 6" one and try it. The idea wouldn't help much on my bandmill. I can already set it closer on size than it will hold during the cut.
VA-Sawyer

Jeff

Awhile back we had a young feller working at the mill who's family had a sawmill and he sawed for them. Their sawmill went bankrupt and was sold at auction.  Well, this successful young man was trying to tell the owner we should change to be as successful as they had been. One thing we should do is add digital setworks to the mill because they would be accurate to within one thousanth of an inch!!  It would only be 10,000 dollars. I tried to explain to him that anything more accurate then what a circular headsaw could physically cut was unnessesary, but I could never get him to see that.  

He went on to bigger and better things and no longer works at the mill. In fact, I dont think he is working doing the bigger and better things any longer either.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

VA-Sawyer

My dad used to have a saying for people like that...'Measure it with a micrometer, then cut it with an ax'.  It can also be fun to watch how carefully some customers lay out marks for bucking the logs. Then I come along with my saw and just drop the bar "somewhere in the neighborhood" .  :D

Danny_S

We had $1500 worth of digital measures on the new moulder that I operated and they lasted about 1 month from the vibration and dirt and dust just completely ruined them. We made measuring blocks out of teflon and just used them to fit the peices we were making. If the balluster didn't fit the block then it wouldn't fit the handrail....

P.S. Those were the exact scales now that I look at them....
Plasma cutting at Craig Manufacturing

VA-Sawyer

Maybe I will rethink my plan.  ::)

Danny_S

By the way, welcome to the Forum Bendavid, I didnt who posted this until now...  I see yer a local yokel.. enjoy the forum.. there's lots of info and fun in here...

 :)
Plasma cutting at Craig Manufacturing

Tom

I wasn't going to say anything since the answers above pretty much echo my feelings.  But, it's raining and I've nothing to do. :D

Digital may be good for some things but I find analog to be more useful in most situations.  Analog instruments can be read at a glance and accuracy is dependent on the operator.  Digital has to be read.  You can't look at a digital readout from the corner of your eye while doing something else.

Here is a good example of why to use analog and why to think about the configuration.  A good instrument panel in a truck or airplane will have dials and needles.  The instruments are generally set up so that the show proper operation of the engine when all of the needles are straight up.  If you are concentrating on a rainy road or trying to land in a cross-wind, you don't have to take your eyes off of the important stuff to know that that your engine is not failing.  A glance will show that all the needles are pointed straight up and What else is there to know?

It would drive me crazy to concentrate on a line of blinking lights as I lowered the blade for the next cut on my bandmill.  You couldn't read the numbers unless you stopped.  You couldn't feather the controls and ease into an accurate position, you would have to bump the controls or have technology do it for you.

Have you ever seen pictures of the instrument panel on a C-130?   Lordy!  How would you ever drive that thing if everything was digital?   You would have to read each one, each time, all the time.  Heck, you would need 6 or 8 co-pilots.   It's safer if all you  have to do is look for a needle that isn't straight up.

Even the speedometer on my Kodiak sticks straight up at 50 MPH. and the tach at 2000 RPM's.  That goes a long way in telling you how the designers feel that the engine should work.

Yep, I like analog clocks too. You don't have to look at them. Just a glance will tell you it's dinner time.... as if I needed a watch for that. :D

I guess that digital readouts are good for some things.  Maybe on a CNC lathe or something like that.  It doesn't help to determine direction though.  We used to say Clock-wise and counter clock-wise.  Kids today have a hard time figuring out left-hand threads because they don't know what to do when you tell them 'turn it clock-wise".   I've said "turn it to the right" and still had to re-itterate and tell them "no!, your other right".  Somebody's not even teaching them left and right anymore.   :)


  
Have you noticed that most kids that grew up with digital watches don't associate with time like you do?  A fellow that grew up with an analog watch will say that it's 20 till 12.  A digital kid will say that it's eleven-forty.   Now, eleven-forty does tell you the time....kinda.  It's 40 minutes after the hour before dinner.  The analog watch tells me that we eat in 20 minutes.  :)

One should think long and hard before he installs digital gauges on an operating panel.  Digital may look fancy but they aren't always the best choice. :)


Minnesota_boy

Good answer, Tom.  I have two voltmeters.  If iI expect the voltage to be constant and I want superb accuracy in the reading, the digital is great.  If the voltage is varying and I want to know how much and which way, the analog beats digital every time.
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

Danny_S

We installed a waste oil burner from omniburn and it had 2 analog guages for fuel and air pressure. They didnt last 2 weeks. We replaced them with liquid filled guages, they didnt really fit the panel but they were reliable and more accurate. I like analog guages as well but the cheap ones payst me off!

(Maybe that could be another forum cuss word..?)

 Some companys cut costs with things like that and they must of had problems with them in testing I am sure. They probably figure they will make more money from selling replacement parts I guess.

They also used those plastic air lines that just push into that little friction collar, you know what I mean?..... The air compressor on the end of the motor runs all the time and it heats up like any compressor, and melted the line...  Now that must of happened on another machine....grr... we replaced those lines with copper.

There I am done venting........
Plasma cutting at Craig Manufacturing

Swede

When i got Amerika-Sågen there was a not moving scale and a needle following the saw head up and down, showing the position. I had to find the right measure with the level. >:(

Second   time  ;D ;D ;D I made a new setting for my sawmill I drilled holes every 5 mm. in an aluminium profile and graded every 50mm. Have a 1/8" nail to put into one of the  holes, slide a  piece of plastic on the profile downto the nail. Then grab the level and an electric circuit breaker touch the plastic and close a hydraulic valve when the sawhead going down. It´s more exact than a Monkeyblade and stay on the same position over night.

So 3:rd time I´ll place a 1/8" screw in every 25mm (1") and let the circuit breaker touch the nail. If I want to cut more than 1" I just hold in a button to bypass the electric circuit breaker. The saw would then pass the screw without stop. Sawing 7/8, 1 1/8, 1 1/2 or other special I can move the screws or put in an extra nail.

Think 3 times making a  new measuring system will be enough   8)

Have been thinking earlier about nice looking and expensive digital stuff but know they do not last for cold, rain and vibrations. Don´t put them on your sawmill!

Swede.

Had a mobile band sawmill, All hydraulics  for logs 30\"x19´, remote control. (sold it 2009-04-13)
Monkey Blades.Sold them too)
Jonsered 535/15\". Just cut firewood now.

DR_Buck

OK....How about you guys with "Setworks" weighing in on this subject.   ::)    I have the WM manual scale on my LT40 and have been thinking about Setworks.   It's "digital", so what are the issues or problems I might experience?   ???
Been there, done that.   Never got caught [/b]
Retired and not doing much anymore and still not getting caught

Tom

That's an instance where digital fits........ as long as the vibration problem is addressed.  Vibration is death on electronics.  When your "read-out" breaks you are dead in the water and back to your manual backup.

Digital is efficiant for setworks because you aren't reading it on the fly.  It is something that you set at the beginning of the job and shouldn't have to mess with again.  It also allows you to depend on its accuracy.  The ability of a computer to detect variance is a lot more critical than your eye and hand on an analog read-out.   (Although your eye and hand are sufficient for the job)   :)

Minnesota_boy

I think you'll find that the digital readout won't work very well when it gets below zero out.  Of course, you might not work too well then either.  I find that at -20F the bearings and gearboxes get so stiff on my Woodmizer that I start tripping circuit breakers when I move the head up or down and forward or back.  At that temp, I can't stay warm if I have to wait forthe circuit breaker to reset, so I don't work when it gets more that 15 below zero. ::)
I eat a high-fiber diet.  Lots of sawdust!

Tom

15 degrees below Zero!

It got down into the lower 50's yesterday and we quit. :D


Swede

Had to read my old Atlas Copco book again, there is degrees and degrees........ ::)

Took a look for some weeks ago, most digital stuff don´t like -5 to10 "Swedish" degrees (Celsius) wich means +15 to 20 Farenheit. Let´s listen to Tom now and forget all about digital displays.  I like the big yellow "moon",  where Zero is 12 o´clock,  ;) on his blue sawmill but think there is easyer ways to make a good working setwork.

Swede.
Had a mobile band sawmill, All hydraulics  for logs 30\"x19´, remote control. (sold it 2009-04-13)
Monkey Blades.Sold them too)
Jonsered 535/15\". Just cut firewood now.

slowzuki

I'm one of those guys who has to think about left and right! 8)  When I was a little gaffer I always wore a watch on my left hand, so whenever someone said left or right I always knew it as watch hand way or the other.

Well I wore watches for 15 years or so then I started working on cars.  What do you know, with a watch on you can get your arm into places it won't come out of >:(  Now I don't wear a watch so I have to think about what hand I write with ;D

I can tighten or loosen a bolt from any side or angle upsidedown or standing on my head without thinking about it and without getting it wrong period but left or right I'm hopeless!

Percy

I was in Walmart on Saterday, doin some Christmas shoppin. I went down the isle that had coffe makers. Musta been 200 different models. The place was packed and alot of us were just in awe of the selection. I seen an expensive unit that said boldly on its box, "DIGITAL COFFEE MAKER". I says to my self, too loudly "I wonder what digital coffee tastes like??" One guy says "Idunno, but it must be expensive." Nuther guy says "I had some once, it tasted kinda binary." ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Seriously,  we can diss digital all we want, it is still the way of the future. Analog style readouts (dial and needle)are favorable but accuracy, troubleshooting, record keeping are digitals strong points as compared to a totally analog system(Im not talking readouts here but actual operating systems). I hated my ACCUSET for about 30 hours when I first got it. I had to adapt/change/accept which was hard for me,Im 50, but  with around 1300 hours of Accuset, I can say......WOW I love this stuff.
GOLDEN RULE : The guy with the gold, makes the rules.

beerguy

Have you ever seen pictures of the instrument panel on a C-130?   Lordy!  How would you ever drive that thing if everything was digital?

Tom,
I worked on the 747-400 for 10 years, and I can answer that question. They have a CRT showing a picture....of an analog guage! ;D

Tom

That's funny! :D     Made my day. :)


We're a strange species.  We constantly design ourselves right back into last week. ;D

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