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Wood-mizer transfer table slab kicker

Started by DGK, February 07, 2017, 11:42:49 PM

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DGK

Hello Everyone,

I have been trying to find video of the wood-mizer transfer table kicking off slabs to see how well the slabs go into a slab rack. Does anyone have a video or pics to share? Any that I have found, show the lumber transfer side of the table leaving the slab kick off side a mystery.
Doug
Yukon, Canada

LT40G38 modified to dual pumped hydraulic plus, HR120 Resaw, EG200 Edger, Bobcat S185,Bobcat S590, Logosol PH260M3, Sthil MS660's, MS460,MS362's MS260, Trailtech dump trailer, F350, F700 Tilt-Deck log/Lumber Hauler, JD440B Skidder, Naarva S23C Processor

4x4American

I remember seeing a decent vidja of one on youtube from the WM Europe one IIRC.  I will try to find it.  Should be a fun mission. 


For the time being, here is a big fancy Baker setup:


https://youtu.be/223aFkBccDs



Boy, back in my day..

DGK

Thanks 4 X 4,

If you find the WM one from Europe that would be awesome. I am trying to see how well organized the slabs are when kicked off into a rack as I strap my slab bundles pretty tight for firewood sales.
Doug
Yukon, Canada

LT40G38 modified to dual pumped hydraulic plus, HR120 Resaw, EG200 Edger, Bobcat S185,Bobcat S590, Logosol PH260M3, Sthil MS660's, MS460,MS362's MS260, Trailtech dump trailer, F350, F700 Tilt-Deck log/Lumber Hauler, JD440B Skidder, Naarva S23C Processor

4x4American

No problem, I didn't have a whole lot of luck finding one dumping into a rack.  I did find these two earlier and I copied them down cause I thought they were interesting although they're not exactly what you're looking for.



https://youtu.be/6wkngcgwBik


https://youtu.be/bvbK7nMGvas


At the Boonville show this past summer, WM had their 70 set up feeding a green chain, and where the boards fed into the green chain, they had a guy fabricate a set of arms and plumbed in an air cylinder.  The sawyer had a foot pedal and when he hit it the arms would pluck the slab and dump it into a slab rack.  It was a neat setup.  If he didn't want it in the slab rack it would keep going and feed into a conveyor and then conveyor would bring it up to another green chain that acted as accumulation in front of the edger.  Then edger had one of those edger tailer thibgs that would drop the edging strips and spit the board back the same green chain that was tailing the 70.  Then it'd come back around.  It was a well thought out setup, designed by Jeremy. 


My thoughts on your idea, is that the boards are probably going to figure out a way to make themselves a mess unless you figured out a slide that somehow balanced the slabs well.  As you know you don't always get perfect slabs and the ones that have a big hump on one side or the flimsy middle ones, they're gonna be the problem childs.

Boy, back in my day..

DGK

Thanks again 4 X 4 for the links. I had seen these videos before with the exception of the Baker video. As you can see, there doesn't seem to be much out there showing the slab being kicked off into a rack. I was thinking that a rack with chains that support the slabs may self-organize a little better than a flat bottomed rack. When milling small logs (which I do a lot of), There are 4 slabs to handle vs 1 cant and possibly a board. That being said, slab handling is my most labour intensive at the point with small logs, so I would like to figure out a system that reduces the manual labour associated with it. I have a board return that works great to drag them back to the out-feed table but I am still having to load/slide them into the rack. It is quick, but is so repetitive that I am getting tennis elbow.
Doug
Yukon, Canada

LT40G38 modified to dual pumped hydraulic plus, HR120 Resaw, EG200 Edger, Bobcat S185,Bobcat S590, Logosol PH260M3, Sthil MS660's, MS460,MS362's MS260, Trailtech dump trailer, F350, F700 Tilt-Deck log/Lumber Hauler, JD440B Skidder, Naarva S23C Processor

scully

I'm not sure if they offer a production model , But I built one for them for the Booneville show last summer . It seemed to do well kicking slabs into the rack . I can say that there are several things to consider when modifying a standard chain table .
I bleed orange  .

DGK

Hi Scully,

Do you have any more info or comments about the slab kicker that you built?
Doug
Yukon, Canada

LT40G38 modified to dual pumped hydraulic plus, HR120 Resaw, EG200 Edger, Bobcat S185,Bobcat S590, Logosol PH260M3, Sthil MS660's, MS460,MS362's MS260, Trailtech dump trailer, F350, F700 Tilt-Deck log/Lumber Hauler, JD440B Skidder, Naarva S23C Processor

Luke_Eames

I have the same issues with the slabs.  A few thoughts maybe getting a conveyor specifically for the slabs.  Or build the kicker similar to what was at Bonneville.  Another thought, which I'm going to give a try when the second half of the building goes up, is a board unscrambler.  I'm planning on placing one by the edger tailer, when all the edges fall of, they'll go on a slanted deck, feeding the unscrambler.  The edges would be picked up and drop into a rack.  I'm not sure how well that would work though for rounded edges.

Scully, are you open to comment more on the kicker?!! :o   
Wood Mizer LT-70 Super Wide
Wood Mizer EG200
Cat IT18

scully

I'd be happy to provide any input I can . I'm really just a guy who hangs out at WM allot and I weld . I was told they have a welding job for me and that was it except for the part were they said we need this to do that etc. I did fab and build the assembly to a WM transfer chain table . Keep in mind that I did this to help the Hannibal guys demonstrate that An LT 70 with all the fixins I.E edger etc etc could be run bye 1 guy .  My advantage was I have a long term understanding of Wood-Mizer equipment . Considering the fact I am not an engineer or designer I think it came out well . If it won't raise any issues I will try and post some detailed pic's of my work but I will indeed ask first .
I bleed orange  .

4x4American

If I was as close to WM as you are and I had free time I would probably spend it there at WM too.  I would have a hard time not just working there.  Would love to see more detailed pics, that's cool you did that. 


Luke what do you have for a setup now, anything fun?
Boy, back in my day..

4x4American

Boy, back in my day..

scully

The project was fun . I think the coolest thing of it all is , I used all Wood-Mizer parts . I cut and changed the configuration of all kinds of pre fabed parts to adapt them to what I was building . This was huge because they use such perfect material to make their parts . Imagine finishing a working assembly and not drilling one hole for a single mount because the altered parts used had the hole in them . It was indeed a cool project . That being said it is not to hard to figure out , the biggest thing is conveyor speed off the mill . Also the length of that conveyor .  What I found interesting was the fine tuning aspects . They seemed easy to address but time was a factor . I think that at the end of the day a slab transfer off the mill could be a great add to a "portable" mill set up . I.E. an LT70 with the control pod at the back end .
I bleed orange  .

DGK

Hi Scully,

Ya got to stop teasing and start giving the details. :-)
Doug
Yukon, Canada

LT40G38 modified to dual pumped hydraulic plus, HR120 Resaw, EG200 Edger, Bobcat S185,Bobcat S590, Logosol PH260M3, Sthil MS660's, MS460,MS362's MS260, Trailtech dump trailer, F350, F700 Tilt-Deck log/Lumber Hauler, JD440B Skidder, Naarva S23C Processor

Luke_Eames

Quote from: DGK on February 09, 2017, 11:58:45 PM
Hi Scully,

Ya got to stop teasing and start giving the details. :-)

I second that!  ;D
And if you wouldn't mind... What size air cylinders did you use?  How many?? and what makes are they???  ;D  A lot of neat material handling equipment can be made with air cylinders.

4x4 - Right now I just have the LT40 and a single blade edger.  But I'm upgrading soon to the setup that Wood-Mizer had in Boonville.  I'm a one man operation and they sold me on their setup. I'm just looking for ways to save some $$$ by building things myself. 
Wood Mizer LT-70 Super Wide
Wood Mizer EG200
Cat IT18

YellowHammer

I would love to see the details also.  Some close up pictures and stuff. 
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

4x4American

Luke, the second I saw that setup I was sold on it too.  It might take me a few years but I'll be there someday :D .  I figure that with a setup like that I would want it all under cover.  So would have to build a big enough building first.  I have a video of it on my old phone, now that I upgraded from dial up speed internet to 30mbps internet I can upload 1 min videos to youtube in under an hour, its great.  So I'll try to put it on there
Boy, back in my day..

paul case

life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

4x4American

It is!  When I switched fron Frontier to Time Warner, I went from so called "high speed" 1mbps internet, to 30mbps "medium speed" internet, and added tv, for about the same price I was paying for just internet and landline telephone.  I can even watch youtube in HD, where before, I was usually in 240-360p or whatever it was
Boy, back in my day..

scully

I bleed orange  .

4x4American

Uh oh it's getting some surface rust, might better tell them to send it to me and I'll baby sit it make sure she don't get rusty lol
Boy, back in my day..

scully

Okay I managed to muddle through picture posting . Man I suck at that !  The air rams are 12" long 21/2 dia.
I bleed orange  .

DGK

Thanks for posting the pics Scully. As they say, "a picture is worth a thousand words". :-)
Doug
Yukon, Canada

LT40G38 modified to dual pumped hydraulic plus, HR120 Resaw, EG200 Edger, Bobcat S185,Bobcat S590, Logosol PH260M3, Sthil MS660's, MS460,MS362's MS260, Trailtech dump trailer, F350, F700 Tilt-Deck log/Lumber Hauler, JD440B Skidder, Naarva S23C Processor

scully

I bleed orange  .

scully

I thought I had posted a couple more sorry . Smart phone and me don't get along...
I bleed orange  .

DGK

Hi Scully, that is a good picture of your mod. If it is not too much to ask, would you mind describing the workflow of the "one man" LT70 using the green chain & kicker as done at the show?
Doug
Yukon, Canada

LT40G38 modified to dual pumped hydraulic plus, HR120 Resaw, EG200 Edger, Bobcat S185,Bobcat S590, Logosol PH260M3, Sthil MS660's, MS460,MS362's MS260, Trailtech dump trailer, F350, F700 Tilt-Deck log/Lumber Hauler, JD440B Skidder, Naarva S23C Processor

Luke_Eames

Thanks for the info and pictures Scully!!   8)

The whole set up worked like a big loop.  If I can get pictures of it up tonight I will.

The mill would drag the board/slab off the back onto a short conveyor.  I think the conveyor was only about 10' long??  It would feed the boards onto the green chain that Scully posted.  Slabs would be kicked off, lumber would move down the chain, then fall off onto another set of conveyors.  I think that green chain show is around 20' foot??  The conveyors would send the lumber to another green chain, which would bring the board back to where the operator of the mill would be standing.  So the board would do one big loop.  BUT wait... there's more!  The edger would be lined up next to the mill with a 20' tailer on the back end.  Any boards that would need edging would go through the edger, on the tailer, then back onto the fist green chain that Scully posted.  Finished boards can be pulled off the last green chain, next to the operator into a pile.  So instead of running all over moving boards and such, the boards would come right back to you.

I have it all pictured in my head  :D
Wood Mizer LT-70 Super Wide
Wood Mizer EG200
Cat IT18

Darrel

Quote from: Luke_Eames on February 13, 2017, 12:21:58 PM
I have it all pictured in my head  :D

Luke, could you please post those pictures? :D :D :D
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

Luke_Eames

Quote from: Darrel on February 13, 2017, 12:39:39 PM
Quote from: Luke_Eames on February 13, 2017, 12:21:58 PM
I have it all pictured in my head  :D

Luke, could you please post those pictures? :D :D :D

My head works like the TV with rabbit ears.... Just when you think everything is tuned in, it all goes fuzzy  ;D ;D

Hey Scully, did you use 1 air ram or 2??
Wood Mizer LT-70 Super Wide
Wood Mizer EG200
Cat IT18

scully

Luke's description is prety spot on . The modified green chain was 20 feet long {2 green chains hooked together}  The conveyor at the tail end of the mill was I think 8 feet long maybe 10 . We didn't have much choice . Position and speed on that conveyor were very important . I also think it needed to be a bit longer .  I'm sure any of you guys that want to make a set up like this will use any veriety   of things , The stuff we used worked real good but I wish I had a little more fab time on a couple things . Cross feeding lumber over a green chain is a little tricky . As you see in the picture I made deflectors in case a board dove , and they will some  times .  Off the tail chain I made skid pans .  I had nothing to do with speeds and drives , thats were I got off LOl .
I bleed orange  .

Kbeitz

To control different speeds on something like that check into Zero-max
drives. They really work good and will work off any motor. Zero to 50%
RPM from any input.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

DGK

Does anyone know if the person in this video is a forum member. He has an interesting set-up with a green chain slab kicker.

https://youtu.be/cCb1egzJlcA
Doug
Yukon, Canada

LT40G38 modified to dual pumped hydraulic plus, HR120 Resaw, EG200 Edger, Bobcat S185,Bobcat S590, Logosol PH260M3, Sthil MS660's, MS460,MS362's MS260, Trailtech dump trailer, F350, F700 Tilt-Deck log/Lumber Hauler, JD440B Skidder, Naarva S23C Processor

4x4American

No sure but iirc that guy was selling the setup.  I think he was in michigan...or maybe it was ohio.  I can't remember.  It's an ok setup if you have a tailman...not sut it's really good for long stuff either
Boy, back in my day..

Kbeitz

For someone that wants to build one...
I worked in a factory that had a walking beam conveyor.
I found this on U-tube to show you what I'm taking about.
They really work good for moving product and it's not
hard to build. This is the best video I could come up with.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6Yb9etbXNg
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Magicman

DGK, he split the pith with every one of those 2X4's so his sawing technique is poor.  The 2X4's will crook.   :-\
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

4x4American

There ain't enough pith in the log to make it into every 2x4!!   ;D
Boy, back in my day..

Magicman

True, but it's not the pith that causes crook, it is the pith area.  Juvenile wood down one edge is a sure recipe for crook.   :-\

Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

4x4American

Yea I know, just being a smart aleck... :D . I agree that the boards will crook, but maybe he wanted that to happen, maybe he's making a wooden trampoline and needs some crown in the floor lol
Boy, back in my day..

paul case

A lot of the lumber I have seen from the big box store has the pith split between 2 boards. Many of the 2x6 must have come from logs that made 3. Not very stable lumber. I guess that is another reason I have my own mill.

On pallet lumber it doesnt make much difference to the buyer if you split the pith.

PC
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

Magicman

We are good. 

My response was directed more toward Guest and Lurking or new Members that are trying to learn about log setup, face opening, and sawing quality lumber.  The lumber yield from that log would have been the same, but the quality yield could have been greatly improved.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

DGK

It is interesting how a thread can change direction, often towards food but not always :-). Being the originator of the post, my interest in the video is to see more of the slab kickers on the conveyor. In my opinion and from what I can see, this guy has a nice set-up for loading the logs, conveying the slabs & boards off of the mill, dealing with the slabs once they hit the conveyor, edging the boards and having them returned back to the conveyor. If I were to post a video of myself working, I am sure there are those out there that could be critical of my operation. But then again, there would be those that appreciate the time spent to film and share the video. Everyone has different reasons for working the way that they do.
Doug
Yukon, Canada

LT40G38 modified to dual pumped hydraulic plus, HR120 Resaw, EG200 Edger, Bobcat S185,Bobcat S590, Logosol PH260M3, Sthil MS660's, MS460,MS362's MS260, Trailtech dump trailer, F350, F700 Tilt-Deck log/Lumber Hauler, JD440B Skidder, Naarva S23C Processor

paul case

I am eating lunch as reading this.

Today it is ham and hash brown casserole. a gift to me from my valentine.

PC
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

4x4American

I'm eating lunch too, ham and monsterella cheese in between two slices of bread glued together with spicy mooseturd.


A valentine gift to myself lol


DGK, he put the video up to sell the setup I do believe.  Anytime anyone puts something on the internet they'd better be ready for critiscim.  And I don't see it as necessarily being a bad thing, that's a way for people to learn.  What's wring with learning?  And if someone gets offended, who cares?  Nothing happens, they won't get sick or have to go to the hospital!  But they might step back and look at it from a different view, or they might not!
Boy, back in my day..

Magicman

I understand and my response was directed toward the video and the sawyer's sawing technique.  A person can have the most elaborate and efficient conveyer system in the world, but if his lumber suffers due to improperly sawing or edging, then all is for naught.

We are all here to learn and it is much easier to learn right rather than unlearn wrong.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

paul case

life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

Peter Drouin

DGK, Has given me food for thought on my set up, DGK do you know where a guy can get the two drums, 4 bearings, a belt? I'd get the steel cut and punch [iorn man] to the length I need.
Bring it all  home and start fabbing. :D :D :D :D
Want to make a custom returend set up with the edger, By reversing the edger I have, That will give me room for two more sizes of lumber I can stick while I cut.
Air pistons I'm  :P Maybe all electric, :P

Thanks for the ideas. DGK
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

4x4American

Ok, I found the video.  It wasn't very lengthy or good at all.  I feel like a goofball when I'm walking around shooting a video with a cell phone...but then they come out like this haha...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUUR4s3b_vo&feature=youtu.be


If one of you moderators knows how to make it so that it's not a link and it's more like embedded please do us all a favor!
Boy, back in my day..

Darrel

When I worked at a high production mill in CA, all the kickers were air, in general, it's much faster than hydraulics.
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

DGK

Quote from: 4x4American on February 14, 2017, 09:06:48 PM
Ok, I found the video.  It wasn't very lengthy or good at all.  I feel like a goofball when I'm walking around shooting a video with a cell phone...but then they come out like this haha...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUUR4s3b_vo&feature=youtu.be


If one of you moderators knows how to make it so that it's not a link and it's more like embedded please do us all a favor!

Thanks for finding the video 4X4. I sure liked the way the edger edgings were being taken care of.
Doug
Yukon, Canada

LT40G38 modified to dual pumped hydraulic plus, HR120 Resaw, EG200 Edger, Bobcat S185,Bobcat S590, Logosol PH260M3, Sthil MS660's, MS460,MS362's MS260, Trailtech dump trailer, F350, F700 Tilt-Deck log/Lumber Hauler, JD440B Skidder, Naarva S23C Processor

Brucer

Air works well for things like kickers. There's always a good deal of inertia to overcome when you're moving a slab (and the kicker itself) starting from a dead stop. Because air is compressible, it will fill the cylinder until the pressure reaches a point where the slab starts to accelerate. Once the slab is moving the compressed air already in the cylinder can expand even faster than air is filling it. This causes the slab and kicker to accelerate, whereas a hydraulic cylinder would be moving at a fairly constant speed through the whole process.

Hydraulics (and electrics) are much better for precise control.

However ... with a little mechanical ingenuity you can design a hydraulic or electric kicker that starts moving slowly with maximum force, then accelerates with less force once the slab starts moving. In fact, with a gearmotor you could design such a system where the motor doesn't have to reverse. Just one complete turn accelerates the slab slowly at first, then the arms speed up until just before they reach their limit of motion. Then the whole process reverses itself (while the motor keeps turning at a constant speed) with the arms slowing down just as they come to rest.

Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Kbeitz

You should never use just air to move a cly. Put oil in the system
and then it's called pneumatic . The air pushes the oil so you
can control it.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Brucer

Nonsense! There are hundreds of applications where a straight air cylinder is the best option. If you can't think of any, consider buying the 3-volume series "Industrial Fluid Power" by Womack Publishing (Volume 2 has several chapters related exclusively to air).

Pneumatic means "filled with or containing air or a gas". It has nothing to do with oil.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

Kbeitz

Quote from: Brucer on February 16, 2017, 12:07:25 AM
Nonsense! There are hundreds of applications where a straight air cylinder is the best option. If you can't think of any, consider buying the 3-volume series "Industrial Fluid Power" by Womack Publishing (Volume 2 has several chapters related exclusively to air).

Pneumatic means "filled with or containing air or a gas". It has nothing to do with oil.

Thanks... Your right. I had to stop and look look that up.
For years that's what I believed that It was only called pneumatic.
Looking it up I see it's called pneumatic hydraulic.
I worked mostly in the textile trade and most everything we
used oil over air. Some very small cylinders was only air on things
like sewing machines. Just playing around I blew the ends right
off long cylinders by putting just air into them. I see another word
for air over oil is Pneumohydraulic .
I learn something new here everyday.

Thanks again.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

melezefarmer

Sorry to revive this thread but has anyone implemented this one man layout? The setup looks awesome and I'm looking into implementing it as soon as I expand the floor space of the sawmill shed. I'm just looking for real world experience with it.
cheers

PAmizerman

I'm working on doing a hybrid between the WM and baker setup. But It won't be till fall that I get it all together. I have all the pieces. Just short on time.
Woodmizer lt40 super remote 42hp Kubota diesel. Accuset II
Hydraulics everywhere
Woodmizer edger 26hp cat diesel
Traverse 6035 telehandler
Case 95xt skidloader
http://byrnemillwork.com/
WM bms250 sharpener
WM bmt250 setter
and a lot of back breaking work!!

melezefarmer

Yeah - I'm still acquiring some of the equipment necessary and will hopefully have a pretty close approximation of the woodmizer setup by the end of the year.

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