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Frick 00 Sawmill with 56" saw

Started by wayback40, February 04, 2017, 10:46:00 PM

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wayback40

I purchased a Frick 00 sawmill with a 56" saw back in November.  We set it up and ran it a couple times before putting it in the barn for the winter.  I ran it from a PTO pulley on a Ford 4000.  The pulley system runs a 7" belt that is 72' long (total length).  I ran ash logs through it from 10" to 23".  The smaller ones were no trouble.  I had to feed the 23" slower but it handled it.  I have read that 50 HP shouldn't be enough power.  I am wondering what others are running their saws with.  I am new to this and would like any information or opinions.



 


 
Wood-Mizer LT15

kb88

Looks like a nice mill. It all depends on how fast you want to feed it. Probably 150hp wouldn't be too much power. I run a 75hp electric on my 56" saw when i push it in hardwood i can trip the reset on it.

ozarkgem

Nice looking setup. I don't have a circle mill but 50 hp is probably a little short on power. There is a formula for the hp needs depending on blade size and no of teeth. Some one will post it I am sure. I think in the 100 hp range would give better results. If you post your location there may be a member close by that could lend you a hand. A video of the mill would be nice also. 
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

bandmiller2

Welcome Wayback, nice looking lashup you have there. Mills can be run underpowered but it hurts your production and is not good for the saw. A undersized engine keeps a sawyer honest meaning he must keep his saw bits sharp. Both of my mills had/have about 100 hp diesels even they are on their knees with a large oak log. If you feed slowly and keep your bits vicious sharp you can get by quite well but I would keep my eyes open for a larger tractor or stationary diesel. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Don P

What Frank said. I run a 46" blade with a TO35, it had 35 hp 60 years ago. I run every other tooth and keep it sharp. All the shanks and teeth are in the saw but every other one is ground narrow and back to where it is lower than the cutting teeth, I still keep them pretty sharp.

If you see chips exiting the cut where you are cutting things are going well. If you see dust spilling out alongside the body of the blade behind the cut you are running too slow, making dust, which is spilling out of the gullets rather than being carried out in them. The spilling dust is rubbing the body of the saw which makes heat which cups the blade and you're done.

bandmiller2

Wayback, treat your headsaw like a trophy wife, its the heart of the operation. Heat on the plate is your biggest enemy don't let boards or slabs rub agents it and be careful of chips around the guides. How you set the lead is very important, there are volumes on this forum on that subject. After a wile you will be able to judge cuts and log taper, I have a line laser but its not really necessary. First cut on a log be sure its stable and won't shift when the saw is in it. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

dgdrls

Welcome to the FF.
That's a dandy Frick.

Great reference to work and learn from
https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/misc/circsaw.pdf

Blade parts here if you need them
http://www.menomineesaw.com/

D

Don P

Hopefully not to beat the heat to death but with low HP it is easy to make heat... in the tractor and its drive parts too. It helped when someone said to remember heat is expansion. A very few degrees of heat around the eye swells the saw plate there and then that levers all the way out to the rim. If the heat is halfway out the blade bellies, flopping around loose between the still tight eye and rim. Heat the rim and it flutters with too much metal out there compared to the plate behind it. As soon as you shut down with a problem find the heat and figure out why. If my first stab doesn't fix it I change teeth and eliminate my sharpening or wear from the equation. I got better at diagnosing my problems when I thought about what happens when the hot spot swells and worked on that. The big thing is don't run hot. When running ash it is a good idea to have a poplar log in the stack every now and again to clean the blade.

Gearbox

You get big HP you will need more belt to handle the HP. . I have sawed with a A  John Deere to a 250 Cummins . Unless you are production sawing you will get along fine with the HP you have . Right now I run a 48 in saw with 3 71 Detroit and a twisted 8 in belt . I only can use only about 50 % of the HP without the belt going south . If you heat your saw it's not the HP it's the operator or saw set up .
A bunch of chainsaws a BT6870 processer , TC 5 International track skidder and not near enough time

Ron Wenrich

And a bright, sunny day will put heat on the saw. 

How much hp do you lose due to slippage?  I've seen everything from a 3-71 (113 hp) to a 6-71 (238 hp).  Usually they run other auxiliary equipment like hydraulics or an edger with those engines.  Rule-of-thumb is 5 hp for each inch of wood you're cutting.  So, a 10" cut would be the maximum to efficiently cut with a 50 hp motor.  Your 56" saw probably has a maximum reach of 20-21".

Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

sealark37

My OO Frick is paired with a 75 Hp International UD-14.  Even then, you have to back off a bit with the larger hardwoods.   Regards, Clark

wayback40

Thanks for the information so far.  I can't tell you how much I appreciate it.  I had not planned on purchasing a circular mill but when it kind of fell into place I couldn't turn it down.  I am not doing this commercially.  I have quite a bit of ash on my place and the neighbors would like me to take their ash also.  All I have to do is remove the trees.  If I run the saw with just half the teeth it sounds like it may be a benefit with the lower 50 HP.  Is that correct?  When you run with half the teeth I assume that you have to slow the feed speed down too?  That doesn't bother me since I am not doing this commercially and I am still learning.  Will the slower speed cause the blade to heat up faster?
Wood-Mizer LT15

Don P

Not as long as you are making chips instead of spilling dust. There is going to be a minimum power per tooth to be able to take a big enough bite to make chips,  but if you can make it work, it works. Mine shouldn't work.

Ron Wenrich

You can only pull so much wood per bite, which means you'll have to travel at half the speed.  Otherwise you'll hang the saw, which will be more damaging to the saw.  Hanging is when you are feeding your saw and it stops dead in place.  I've done it a couple of times, and it isn't fun getting it back to a running condition. 

Get a copy of Lunstrum's circle saw booklet that dgdrls has a link to.  It's a free PDF file and it will answer lots of questions you have on the proper hp and the like.  https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/misc/circsaw.pdf
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

longtime lurker

As the other guys have said, Circle saws like power. More the better.

But it's a hobby. If you can accept the limitations  it's been done by others before you. I guess the real question becomes "Would a bigger tractor be useful away from the mill?" (My dad has a 4000, handy little critter, but it's no rocket when there's work to be done)
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

bandmiller2

Wayback, my first circular mill was similar to yours dual axle portable. I built a pole building I could drive through. Any mill worth owning is worth a roof over its head. Keep your eyes pealed for a big old diesel tractor, ones with poor rubber can usually be had reasonable. Ask your local fire chief who in your area refurbishes fire apparatus they repower to meet emission standards and often have Detroit diesels with low miles in good running condition. Theirs nothing like being awash with power on a circular mill and being able to feed full speed. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

Dave_

As Gearbox already said, your weak link is the belt, not the engine.  Multiple Vee's will transfer way more power.

Dave_


longtime lurker

Even if he shifted to multiple vee's and a direct PTO hookup he's still going to be short on power. I had a bench (circular resaw) setup that way and it was struggling to run a 42" saw at capacity with the same Ford 4000 tractor on it. It'd do it but not at the kind of speed I needed. Albeit my timber is mostly a lot harder then what you blokes saw.

It ran okay with a 1066 International on it though, but thats 105 HP against 60 HP. Then I put a stationary on it with an electronic governor and it was a little champion... that electronic governor is the next best thing to three phase power in terms of load response and burnt way less fuel.
The quickest way to make a million dollars with a sawmill is to start with two million.

Dleavitt

I'm running a 48 inch saw with 40 teeth and powering it directly by the pto withe a 4520 John Deere diesel (56-58 hp) at 540 rpm's and it works really well . I'm not feeding crazy fast but a pretty good clip....not spilling sawdust or anything. Works great and plus that's using the hydraulic remotes also.

Bert

I use a 6-71 detroit which is 238 HP as Ron mentioned. I cant imagine sawing with less HP. You can hear the governor open her up in 20" hardwoods. Even with reduced feed speed. I never used anything but detroits though.
Saw you tomorrow!

bandmiller2

I always wanted to try running my 48" saw with my 50 hp john deere  70 diesel. Only 50 hp but a very torquey 50,  375 cu in  with two cylinders. But never was ambitious enough to disturb  my old 100 hp Dagenham diesel. Has anyone here tried a two cylinder JD diesel on their mill.?? Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

wayback40

I am laying out a building that I can pull the mill into and run it under cover but will be able to take it out also.  For those who run their mill with a dedicated engine do you have photos that you can post?  I would be interested in seeing how you are setting them up.  Also, what price range should I expect to spend if I went to a dedicated engine to power the mill?
Wood-Mizer LT15

Ron Wenrich

Are you planning to keep running a flat belt?
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

bandmiller2

Back 40, flat belts are a throwback to when that's all folks had. Flat belts are awkward in a building because you really should have a long flat belt as the weight aids traction. Possibly you could have both multiple "Vee" belts in the mill house and leave the flat pulley if you want to mill mobile. My prediction is when your mill is set up and level in the mill house it won't be moved. Stationary engines are easy to set up with "Vee" belts. Your mill is a right hand mill so you can run belts from the back (clutch) end of the mill up to your arbor. There are ways to use truck diesels and transmissions but its much handier to have a self contained power unit with its over center clutch and variable speed governor. Frank C.
A man armed with common sense is packing a big piece

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