The Forestry Forum is sponsored in part by:




TimberKing Sawmills




Toll Free 1-800-582-0470

LogRite Tools



Forest Products Industry Insurance


Norwood Industries Inc.


Sawmill & Woodlot Magazine



Your source for Portable Sawmills, Edgers, Resaws, Sharpeners, Setters, Bandsaw Blades and Sawmill Parts

EZ Boardwalk Sawmills. More Saw For Less Money!

STIHLDealers.com sponsored by Northeast STIHL


Woodland Sawmills

Peterson Swingmills

 KASCO SharpTech WoodMaxx Blades


Turbosawmill

Sawmill Exchange

BRUTE FORCE Authorized Dealer

Woodshax Outdoor Vending Solutions

FARMA

Forestry Forum Tool Box

Author Topic: 8/4 Walnut  (Read 2450 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Cazzhrdwd

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 283
  • Location: Maryland
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
8/4 Walnut
« on: February 04, 2017, 09:47:32 pm »
I'm getting some very nice large Walnut logs in, I'm thinking about doing it all in 8/4. Do you guys think I should air dry or dead green in the ol L200? I know what a pain it is getting final moisture out but I'm concerned about honeycomb and just hurting the load in general. I have a guy that would buy it tomorrow if I had it so as usual I need tonget going on this. I've done lots of 4/4 which is probably a cake walk compared to 8/4.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
96 Woodmizer LT40Super  Woodmizer 5 head moulder

Offline Den Socling

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 4220
  • Age: 67
  • Location: Jersey Shore, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Male
  • just wondering
    • PC Specialties
Re: 8/4 Walnut
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2017, 09:52:03 pm »
I would say that figure has a lot to do with how you dry it. If it is straight, plain grain it is fairly easy. If it has beautiful figure wood at crotches, you have to be really careful.

Offline Cazzhrdwd

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 283
  • Location: Maryland
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
Re: 8/4 Walnut
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2017, 10:16:21 pm »
I dont think it will have much figure Den, it's all woods grown tall and straight.
96 Woodmizer LT40Super  Woodmizer 5 head moulder

Offline YellowHammer

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2278
  • Age: 52
  • Location: New Market, Alabama
  • Gender: Male
  • There's a lot more to it.
    • Hobby Hardwood Alabama
Re: 8/4 Walnut
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2017, 10:29:24 pm »
I have been kiln drying 8/4 with good success. It has a high moisture removal rate.  However, I have been air drying to about 35% or less and taking it slow in the kiln. 
Hobby Hardwood Alabama.com
LT40 Diesel Hydraulic, Stihl 028, MS440, MS660, 2 Kilns

Offline GeneWengert-WoodDoc

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2008
  • Location: Bishop, GA
  • Gender: Male
  • Author of "Sawing Hardwood Lumber"
    • Book on Sawing hardwood Lumber
Re: 8/4 Walnut
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2017, 10:37:51 pm »
Air drying under an open shed is #1.  Then air followed by kiln.  Then kiln drying green.  The issue with going green is the long time involved.  Because you have L200, you can safely (quality perspective) kiln dry a full load from green. 

The most important procedure is to end coat with a double coating and also use the end coating on all large knots.   Use Anchorseal or equivalent.  This will prevent almost all honeycomb.  The biggest issue with walnut is end checks that turn into honeycomb and travel down the lumber, often 12".
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Offline robmelby

  • member
  • *
  • Posts: 28
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Jefferson,Md
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
Re: 8/4 Walnut
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2017, 08:19:14 am »
 What part of Maryland are you from?

Offline Den Socling

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 4220
  • Age: 67
  • Location: Jersey Shore, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Male
  • just wondering
    • PC Specialties
Re: 8/4 Walnut
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2017, 11:22:13 am »
Here is one of the walnut slabs I currently have in a kiln. The slabs are 12/4 up to 14/4 and the ends were heavily waxed. We mark the checks before loading to make sure there is no dispute about where they came from.
 

 

Offline Cazzhrdwd

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 283
  • Location: Maryland
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
Re: 8/4 Walnut
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2017, 05:30:52 pm »
I have been kiln drying 8/4 with good success. It has a high moisture removal rate.  However, I have been air drying to about 35% or less and taking it slow in the kiln.
How long are you air drying to get that and are you air drying in an open shed?
96 Woodmizer LT40Super  Woodmizer 5 head moulder

Offline Cazzhrdwd

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 283
  • Location: Maryland
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
Re: 8/4 Walnut
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2017, 05:37:45 pm »
Air drying under an open shed is #1.  Then air followed by kiln.  Then kiln drying green.  The issue with going green is the long time involved.  Because you have L200, you can safely (quality perspective) kiln dry a full load from green. 

The most important procedure is to end coat with a double coating and also use the end coating on all large knots.   Use Anchorseal or equivalent.  This will prevent almost all honeycomb.  The biggest issue with walnut is end checks that turn into honeycomb and travel down the lumber, often 12".

thanks Gene, I'm going to air dry fro two months and see where it's at.
96 Woodmizer LT40Super  Woodmizer 5 head moulder

Offline Cazzhrdwd

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 283
  • Location: Maryland
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
Re: 8/4 Walnut
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2017, 05:38:25 pm »
What part of Maryland are you from?
I'm in Westminster, not too far from you.
96 Woodmizer LT40Super  Woodmizer 5 head moulder

Offline YellowHammer

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2278
  • Age: 52
  • Location: New Market, Alabama
  • Gender: Male
  • There's a lot more to it.
    • Hobby Hardwood Alabama
Re: 8/4 Walnut
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2017, 10:58:25 pm »
I have been kiln drying 8/4 with good success. It has a high moisture removal rate.  However, I have been air drying to about 35% or less and taking it slow in the kiln.
How long are you air drying to get that and are you air drying in an open shed?

Several months in the summer, longer in the winter.  I have an open roof on a concrete slab. 
Hobby Hardwood Alabama.com
LT40 Diesel Hydraulic, Stihl 028, MS440, MS660, 2 Kilns

Offline serg

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 351
  • Age: 61
  • Gender: Male
  • http://www.vacuums.ru
    • www.vacuums.ru
Re: 8/4 Walnut
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2017, 12:08:23 am »
I dry slab vacuum humidity 6 %. Doing heat treatment of 175 gr S. Humidity will be 10 - 12% heat treatment no. Air natural convection. Cold at bottom, warm at top. I have not used the atomizer with water, I did not use a fan. The steam from the wood , very much in the chamber is a drying agent and moisture. The result of drying and thermal treatment on photo slab.

Sergey.





Offline Den Socling

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 4220
  • Age: 67
  • Location: Jersey Shore, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Male
  • just wondering
    • PC Specialties
Re: 8/4 Walnut
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2017, 10:14:01 am »
If you start with end checks, hopefully this is what you will have at the end of the drying schedule.
 

 
 

 
Nothing but a crayon line.

Offline ToddsPoint

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 69
  • Location: Todds Point IL
  • Gender: Male
  • Stockmaker and Carver
Re: 8/4 Walnut
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2017, 05:17:47 am »
I dry slab vacuum humidity 6 %. Doing heat treatment of 175 gr S. Humidity will be 10 - 12% heat treatment no. Air natural convection. Cold at bottom, warm at top. I have not used the atomizer with water, I did not use a fan. The steam from the wood , very much in the chamber is a drying agent and moisture. The result of drying and thermal treatment on photo slab.

Sergey.


Sergey, I see you make gunstock blanks.  It looks like you have hundreds of rifle blanks.  Tell me about your gunstock operation.  I also turn walnut into stock blanks and fit and finish stocks.  Gary
Walnut dust is in my blood.

Offline Den Socling

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 4220
  • Age: 67
  • Location: Jersey Shore, Pennsylvania
  • Gender: Male
  • just wondering
    • PC Specialties
Re: 8/4 Walnut
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2017, 01:35:22 pm »
I, also, have been trying to write a perfect schedule for walnut gunstocks. I think they have been coming out pretty good but the company that sends them wants them perfect. Not even hairline cracks are permitted. They sell some rough and any cracks would depreciate value. If it was up to me, I'd run them through a belt sander and then sell them. Here's a couple pictures. In the first one, I had cut up a  a couple blanks to verify that there was no degrade inside and that the core was dry. The second picture is just 4 rejects.

 

 

 

Offline serg

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 351
  • Age: 61
  • Gender: Male
  • http://www.vacuums.ru
    • www.vacuums.ru
Re: 8/4 Walnut
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2017, 11:12:26 pm »
ToddsPoint, Hello!
I do not speak English. I brought the nuts for drying vacuum chamber. The customer himself takes the gun factories where they make the butts for a hunting rifle.
Den. You said, well, do everything right.
Sergey.

Offline ToddsPoint

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 69
  • Location: Todds Point IL
  • Gender: Male
  • Stockmaker and Carver
Re: 8/4 Walnut
« Reply #16 on: February 21, 2017, 05:03:21 am »
I, also, have been trying to write a perfect schedule for walnut gunstocks. I think they have been coming out pretty good but the company that sends them wants them perfect. Not even hairline cracks are permitted. They sell some rough and any cracks would depreciate value. If it was up to me, I'd run them through a belt sander and then sell them. Here's a couple pictures. In the first one, I had cut up a  a couple blanks to verify that there was no degrade inside and that the core was dry. The second picture is just 4 rejects.

Crotch wood in a kiln would be tricky indeed.  I air dry my wood, simply because I don't have a kiln yet.  I cut stock blanks out of the slab immediately.  I hang it and put a clear plastic bag over it.  When the bag shows moisture, take it off and turn it inside out and put it back on.  This slows the rate of drying and it will keep it from checking.  Once there is no more moisture showing in the bag it is safe and the feather won't check.  Gary
Walnut dust is in my blood.

Offline ToddsPoint

  • Full Member
  • **
  • Posts: 69
  • Location: Todds Point IL
  • Gender: Male
  • Stockmaker and Carver
Re: 8/4 Walnut
« Reply #17 on: February 21, 2017, 05:03:56 am »
ToddsPoint, Hello!
I do not speak English. I brought the nuts for drying vacuum chamber. The customer himself takes the gun factories where they make the butts for a hunting rifle.
Den. You said, well, do everything right.
Sergey.

Thanks Sergey.  Gary
Walnut dust is in my blood.

Offline Cazzhrdwd

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 283
  • Location: Maryland
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
Re: 8/4 Walnut
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2017, 11:12:39 pm »
So as usual, trying to get the water to move in this 8/4 walnut. I'm at about 30% in the core, 17% on the outside. Shut the compressor off and raised the temp to 120. It's been there for 24 hours, no movement yet!
96 Woodmizer LT40Super  Woodmizer 5 head moulder

Offline Cazzhrdwd

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 283
  • Location: Maryland
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
Re: 8/4 Walnut
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2017, 03:26:07 pm »
Finally have movement. Core is about 28% so I'm continuing with compressor off and 120 degrees. Outside has moved up to about 18%
96 Woodmizer LT40Super  Woodmizer 5 head moulder

Offline GeneWengert-WoodDoc

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2008
  • Location: Bishop, GA
  • Gender: Male
  • Author of "Sawing Hardwood Lumber"
    • Book on Sawing hardwood Lumber
Re: 8/4 Walnut
« Reply #20 on: May 07, 2017, 08:28:59 pm »
Are you using a pin meter?  They do not measure above 30% MC with any accuracy, so they will seem to stay at the same value even though there is moisture loss.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Offline Glenn1

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 437
  • Age: 61
  • Location: Winston Salem, NC
  • Gender: Male
  • Drying lumber one board at a time
    • GPS Hardwoods
Re: 8/4 Walnut
« Reply #21 on: May 07, 2017, 09:35:40 pm »
I have an L53 so the dynamics are similar to your L200.  I turn off my compressor and raise the temperature to 145-150 degrees.  Then I turn on the automatic fans until the temperature drops to around 120 degrees.  The fan should exhaust a fair amount of moist air.  Then I repeat the procedure.  Make sure you turn off the compressor so you don't trip the over heat switch. 
Nyle 53 Kiln, New Holland Skid Steer, Kaufman Gooseneck Trailer, Whitney 32A Planer

Offline Cazzhrdwd

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 283
  • Location: Maryland
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
Re: 8/4 Walnut
« Reply #22 on: May 07, 2017, 10:29:28 pm »
Gene yes I am.

Glen I'm trying to get the inside and outside cores to equalise a bit. It's been air drying for 2 months. I'm a bit nervous to go that high yet. I will when I get it closer to done.
96 Woodmizer LT40Super  Woodmizer 5 head moulder

Offline Cazzhrdwd

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 283
  • Location: Maryland
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
Re: 8/4 Walnut
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2017, 12:19:43 am »
Still slowly coming down. I'm getting a small amount of end checking,
Some are about 1 inch long and a 16th wide, it would be normal checking on anything else, sure hope it's not an indication of honeycomb.
96 Woodmizer LT40Super  Woodmizer 5 head moulder

Offline GeneWengert-WoodDoc

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2008
  • Location: Bishop, GA
  • Gender: Male
  • Author of "Sawing Hardwood Lumber"
    • Book on Sawing hardwood Lumber
Re: 8/4 Walnut
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2017, 05:03:39 pm »
Face or end checkIng?
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Offline Cazzhrdwd

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 283
  • Location: Maryland
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
Re: 8/4 Walnut
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2017, 05:17:56 pm »
Face or end checkIng?

Its end checking, face looks very nice. It is end coated.
96 Woodmizer LT40Super  Woodmizer 5 head moulder

Offline GeneWengert-WoodDoc

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2008
  • Location: Bishop, GA
  • Gender: Male
  • Author of "Sawing Hardwood Lumber"
    • Book on Sawing hardwood Lumber
Re: 8/4 Walnut
« Reply #26 on: May 13, 2017, 07:01:03 am »
End checking should be controlled well by a thick coating of Anchorseal or similar product.  The coating needs to be applied prior to the start of any end checking.  Walnut is quite prone to end checking which indeed develops into end honeycomb.  Hard to tell now how far the checks go.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Offline Cazzhrdwd

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 283
  • Location: Maryland
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
Re: 8/4 Walnut
« Reply #27 on: May 13, 2017, 04:45:05 pm »
End checking should be controlled well by a thick coating of Anchorseal or similar product.  The coating needs to be applied prior to the start of any end checking.  Walnut is quite prone to end checking which indeed develops into end honeycomb.  Hard to tell now how far the checks go.

Have another load going in about a month, that will be also encoated with anchor seal. What about also covering the end of the pile with plastic?

Also any ideas on doing a better job with 8/4 walnut. I'd like to read up on it a bit?
96 Woodmizer LT40Super  Woodmizer 5 head moulder

Offline GeneWengert-WoodDoc

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2008
  • Location: Bishop, GA
  • Gender: Male
  • Author of "Sawing Hardwood Lumber"
    • Book on Sawing hardwood Lumber
Re: 8/4 Walnut
« Reply #28 on: May 13, 2017, 06:01:18 pm »
Use two heavy coats
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Offline Cazzhrdwd

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 283
  • Location: Maryland
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
Re: 8/4 Walnut
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2017, 09:42:45 pm »
Use two heavy coats

What would sealing the end with plastic do?
96 Woodmizer LT40Super  Woodmizer 5 head moulder

Offline YellowHammer

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2278
  • Age: 52
  • Location: New Market, Alabama
  • Gender: Male
  • There's a lot more to it.
    • Hobby Hardwood Alabama
Re: 8/4 Walnut
« Reply #30 on: May 14, 2017, 11:45:52 pm »
Seems like plastic would be a pain.  What would you have in mind d?
Hobby Hardwood Alabama.com
LT40 Diesel Hydraulic, Stihl 028, MS440, MS660, 2 Kilns

Offline Cazzhrdwd

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 283
  • Location: Maryland
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
Re: 8/4 Walnut
« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2017, 10:02:34 am »
Just covering the ends securely. Now I'm at about 25% core and my end checks are getting a bit larger. Not too many running down the face, just on the end.

 

 

Its a bit blurry, not that way on my iPad. Not sure why it is here.
96 Woodmizer LT40Super  Woodmizer 5 head moulder

Offline Cazzhrdwd

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 283
  • Location: Maryland
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
Re: 8/4 Walnut
« Reply #32 on: May 16, 2017, 11:35:51 am »
Getting more green 8/4 today. Going to put it on sticks and put it in the barn. Its going to be 95 Tomorrow (Wednesday) should I cover it also to keep it from drying too fast?
96 Woodmizer LT40Super  Woodmizer 5 head moulder

Offline YellowHammer

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2278
  • Age: 52
  • Location: New Market, Alabama
  • Gender: Male
  • There's a lot more to it.
    • Hobby Hardwood Alabama
Re: 8/4 Walnut
« Reply #33 on: May 17, 2017, 06:39:23 am »
Here's how I would do it, not sure of your configuration.  I would sticker it, with the stickers as close to the end of the boards as reasonably possible to arrest any end checks.  Then I would spray or slather Anchorseal on it, two coats, or as much as it will soak up.  I like spraying because it will cover the entire exposed end, and the exposed face, of the boards up to the first stickers.  Then put it under a shed, put another stack of stickered wood on top of it for weight, and surround it with other drying stacks to cut the wind down. 
Hobby Hardwood Alabama.com
LT40 Diesel Hydraulic, Stihl 028, MS440, MS660, 2 Kilns

Offline Cazzhrdwd

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 283
  • Location: Maryland
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
Re: 8/4 Walnut
« Reply #34 on: May 17, 2017, 08:57:36 am »
Here's how I would do it, not sure of your configuration.  I would sticker it, with the stickers as close to the end of the boards as reasonably possible to arrest any end checks.  Then I would spray or slather Anchorseal on it, two coats, or as much as it will soak up.  I like spraying because it will cover the entire exposed end, and the exposed face, of the boards up to the first stickers.  Then put it under a shed, put another stack of stickered wood on top of it for weight, and surround it with other drying stacks to cut the wind down.

Agreed, what do you think of the end checks in the pic?

Gene I'd like your opinion on it as well.
96 Woodmizer LT40Super  Woodmizer 5 head moulder

Offline GeneWengert-WoodDoc

  • Senior Member x2
  • *****
  • Posts: 2008
  • Location: Bishop, GA
  • Gender: Male
  • Author of "Sawing Hardwood Lumber"
    • Book on Sawing hardwood Lumber
Re: 8/4 Walnut
« Reply #35 on: May 17, 2017, 07:57:43 pm »
Except for the large one, they appear as normal end checks that could be prevented with two coats of Anchorseal.  Two coats are essential when spraying.

The large check is a stress check from stress in the tree.
Gene - Author of articles in Sawmill & Woodlot and books: Drying Hardwood Lumber; VA Tech Solar Kiln; Sawing Edging & Trimming Hardwood Lumber. And more

Offline Cazzhrdwd

  • Senior Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 283
  • Location: Maryland
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm new!
Re: 8/4 Walnut
« Reply #36 on: May 17, 2017, 08:11:20 pm »
Except for the large one, they appear as normal end checks that could be prevented with two coats of Anchorseal.  Two coats are essential when spraying.

The large check is a stress check from stress in the tree.

Okay thanks. I coated it once during air drying, I'll do it on this next load.

This next load is very nice. Here are some very nice 15'
 

 
96 Woodmizer LT40Super  Woodmizer 5 head moulder