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Oppurtunity or run away.

Started by starmac, February 02, 2017, 09:32:45 PM

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starmac

I have an offer to set my mill up out on the log sale I am hauling logs off of.
the logger will sell/trade me all of the short logs I could ever saw.

The thing is, is it is a 2 hour one way drive when the road is passable, the same or even less when it isn't but I would be restricted to a four wheeler for access on those days.

We are looking at finding a way to make it worth it for both of us, there would be pro's and cons.
If I do this, I would have an unending supply of saw logs, with easy access and not need any equipment other than what I already have.
I would also set up a camp out there and stay something like 3 days ata time, and could haul a couple of cords of firewood out anytime I could get out in my 1 ton to sort of keep travel expenses down.

I have a tandem 25 foot flatbed truck that I can sticker wood directly on and drive out when road conditions permit.
A 1 ton with a 12 foot flatbed dump for firewood or lumber either one.
All waste could be left right on sight, no problems with slabs or sawdust.

I have a forklift suitable to unload bundles of lumber once back to town, but I do not have anything suitable to move the logs from the deck to the mill.
The logger is however planning on storing his equipment out there during the off season, and could work a deal with him to use his loader on site.

Just in the kicking around the idea stage right now, need to figure out what would work for both of us.
I am not sure if buying the logs outright, or sawing on some percentage, which would include hauling his share to town too probably, would be the best way to go.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

WV Sawmiller

Starmac,

   It sounds tempting to me but a few questions you will need to answer for yourself. How do you feel about camping out there several nights per week? Do you already have a market for the lumber? Who is managing things back at the home front while you are out in the bush? How much extra income do you think this proposal should return? What are your extra costs in doing so? How secure is the site for you to leave your mill there? What does this do to your maintenance costs and downtime (I gather right now you are pretty close to the dealer and common use spares)? Can you try this on a trial run basis and back out with no major issues if it does not work out? I assume this is a somewhat seasonal gig - if so how long and can you get your equipment out at the end of the season?

   Good luck. let us know how this pans out.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

starmac

Ok I will answer these the best I can.
I do not have a ready market for the lumber, and do not just want to sell a bunch of boards anyway. Any lumber I would sell would be along the lines of a finished storage building, cabins or cabin kits.
I do not intend for this to make a living, but it appears trucking may be slow, so it wouldn't hurt for their to be at least enough to pay expenses in it.
As far as the camping a few days at a time, that is one of the perks, as far as I am concerned.
As far as dealers close by, he he this is Alaska. We do have a woodmiser dealer about 350 miles south, which is just a hop skip and jump. I do not now how much he stocks as far as parts goes. Down time would not be a problem, I do not for see any rushes on anything I am apt to do.
Everything here is somewhat seasonal, this would be a late spring toll freeze up gig.
The equipment will be just as safe there as most any other place, it is public land, but as long as it is an active log sale, we get to gate and lock the road, equipment will be 2 miles inside of the gate.
I would not be locked into the deal in any way, and can get the equipment out anytime the road is dry enough through the summer, and anytime after freeze up in the winter. But out there would be as good of a place to store irt as anywhere else I have access to.

This is just in the kicking around stage, as far as money, I am not sure about it. I do know I can sell storage buildings and cabin kits for a decent profit, and might if it worked out slow down on the trucking. Money wise, it would never compete with trucking when things are running, but I sure enjoy the time in the woods, and trucking has slowed down considerably here when the price of oil went south anyway.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Seaman

It sounds worth trying out, if it does not benefit you both, then move back home. I cannot even  imagine living in such an un-populated place, but I would love to visit your neck of the woods.
Balance all the trouble against buying logs enough for your building needs.
Lucas dedicated slabber
Woodmizer LT40HD
John Deere 5310 W/ FEL
Semper Fi

ozarkgem

Sounds like a deal to me. As far as moving the logs to the mill you could make a log arch for the 4 wheeler. Everything is there in one place. You could have a pile of lumber in a few days. Beats running here and there to get logs and deal with the waste. If I had that opportunity presented to me I would take it.
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

TKehl

Quote from: starmac on February 02, 2017, 09:32:45 PM
all of the short logs I could ever saw.

Short logs?  How long are they?
In the long run, you make your own luck – good, bad, or indifferent. Loretta Lynn

Andries

Sounds like opportunity.
TKehl pointed out that the log length might be an issue.
Thinking that you should keep your eye on the end product.

The closer you can get to producing a product that you sell direct to the consumer, the more $ you make.
Storage kits and cabin packages fit that bill.

Have you got dry storage for all the lumber that you'll be producing?
LT40G25
Ford 545D loader
Stihl chainsaws

starmac

What I am calling short logs is what the sawmill does not want to buy.
Anything under 32 feet is considered short and they dock you 18% on the pay.
Anything under 17 feet they will not buy at all.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Joe Hillmann

When I first read this my reaction was if it was me I would run away from it.  But I also thought short logs meant 4 or 5 foot long.

How cheaply is he willing to trade/sell you the logs as they sit?
How much would he charge you to transport the logs to your place?

If things work out in your favor it could be a great deal, if you have a use/way to make money on the finished lumber.


scully

this is going to be a lot of work in less than good conditions .  If it was high value timber maybe it would offset things enough to make it worth while . but for soft wood I'm not sure I would . Going through that much trouble is worth more than just making enough to cover your time . I'm not so sure you could even do that . Getting the logs out to a more suitable location and then doing what you can is the way I would go .  Maybe I don't see the big picture here , but to me it seems to big .
I bleed orange  .

starmac

I haul logs to town from there daily, infact leaveing in a few minutes to get todays load. I charge him 550 a load.

I can buy logs from him for the same price as the sawmill pays. 385 per thousand less the 550 if I haul them.
The deal is I do not have a great place to saw them here, so would have to rent a yard, then deal with the slabs and dust.
Then I would have to invest in a way to unload logs here in town. I could do it with my forklift, but that is slow and can get iffy on long logs, unless the yard is smooth.

I do not see the work any more than working in town, and not sure what you mean by less than good conditions?
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Treehack

Quote from: starmac on February 03, 2017, 09:33:20 AM
What I am calling short logs is what the sawmill does not want to buy.
Anything under 32 feet is considered short and they dock you 18% on the pay.
Anything under 17 feet they will not buy at all.

Only in Alaska would a 32 footer be considered short:D
I would say go for it and see how it works out.  I would love to spend the time out in the woods if I could.  Don't forget your .45 in case of bears.
TK 1220, 100+ acres of timber, strong left arm.

starmac

That would be 45/70.
That is another perk on this deal, I can shoot all I want, and we have no closed season on bears, with a limit of 3 a year. lol
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

starmac

The 32 footers re actually 33 with trim, and the mill really only wants a limited amount of them, but they have not turned down any yet.
We only have the one mill to sell to, and what they actually want is 53 footers, that way they pay for the small end and get all the taper for free. It sucks when there is no competition.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

TKehl

I guess everythings bigger in Texas Alaska.

I'd put a pencil to it.  Also what would it cost to buy lumber to build the sheds?  I understand being outdoors, but if the actual cost is higher than you can buy milled lumber for, you may as well be fishing as milling.  A free horse can still be expensive.

With all that said, I don't see much to lose in giving it a go.  I'd also start looking for some sort of specialty size that's in demand but hard to source locally. 
In the long run, you make your own luck – good, bad, or indifferent. Loretta Lynn

Ljohnsaw

Quote from: TKehl on February 03, 2017, 10:26:13 AM
I guess everythings bigger in Texas Alaska.

I'd put a pencil to it.  Also what would it cost to buy lumber to build the sheds?  I understand being outdoors, but if the actual cost is higher than you can buy milled lumber for, you may as well be fishing as milling.  A free horse can still be expensive.

With all that said, I don't see much to lose in giving it a go.  I'd also start looking for some sort of specialty size that's in demand but hard to source locally.

Hey, its Alaska, everything is hard to source locally. :D

Sounds interesting.  Wish I had unlimited supply of "short" logs!
John Sawicky

Just North-East of Sacramento...

SkyTrak 9038, Ford 545D FEL, Davis Little Monster backhoe, Case 16+4 Trencher, Home Built 42" capacity/36" cut Bandmill up to 54' long - using it all to build a timber frame cabin.

Darrel

Quote from: scully on February 03, 2017, 09:51:25 AM
this is going to be a lot of work in less than good conditions .  If it was high value timber maybe it would offset things enough to make it worth while . but for soft wood I'm not sure I would . Going through that much trouble is worth more than just making enough to cover your time . I'm not so sure you could even do that . Getting the logs out to a more suitable location and then doing what you can is the way I would go .  Maybe I don't see the big picture here , but to me it seems to big .

West of the Rockies, soft wood is where the money is. In general, hard wood does not grow tall, is seldom straight, and has wonky limbs all over the place. I read posts here on the forum about oak being used for timber frame homes and the very idea boggles my mind. Why would somebody do that?  So soft wood of course, if he was considering running away for hard wood then of course in Alaska, the answer would obviously be no.  Things are different in different parts of the country.
1992 LT40HD

If I don't pick myself up by my own bootstraps, nobody else will.

Gearbox

Is this in a bug killed wood or fire burn ? How long can you hold bug killed wood ?
A bunch of chainsaws a BT6870 processer , TC 5 International track skidder and not near enough time

ChugiakTinkerer

Sounds like you've got a good grasp on the economics.  My only thought is whether the land manager will welcome your operation.  Can you dispose of slabs and sawdust on site?  You may want to see what the terms of the log sale include.  If you need an additional permit it could get...complicated.
Woodland Mills HM130

brianJ

Do you sell "building kits" green?    Including all fasteners?   In standard sizes?   A waiting list?   It would be pretty sweet if you could get orders then saw load and deliver.  One less handling and dont need a storage spot nets you more and work is faster easier.

starmac

There is no problem with the forest service setting up the mill or leaveing the saw dust and slabs.
You should see the waste left on these sales. The sale we are logging is the mills sale, everything under 17 feet gets left period, once the sale is turned back people can get permits and cut it for personal use firewood, but can't sell it.
There is one deck out there I bet I coulld mill 5 houses out of, frame and siding.

These are not dead trees at all, live till they drop them, but with the bark on, they will get worm holes in them over the summer, but it doesn't hurt anything.
The sawmill keeps probably a 3 year supply of logs in their yard.

The only kits I might sell is cabin kits, which would mostly be 3 sided logs, and they can get there hardwear themselves.
I can sell a few of them on order, just do not know how commercial I really want to get yet, depends on how much trucking their is this summer. I would hate to take orders, then miss some trucking because I had an order to fill.
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

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