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Bark edged slabs

Started by Jeff, January 31, 2017, 11:35:22 AM

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Jeff

I have several live edge with bark, walnut slabs thanks to da Magicman. My question is, can I plane them without fear of destoying the planer knives. Or do I have to just plan on sand sand sand?
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

chet

If ya wanna take a road trip I can run them through my drum sander.  ;D   It'll run up to 24" in width.
I am a true TREE HUGGER, if I didnt I would fall out!  chet the RETIRED arborist

Jeff

That may be the ticket... ;)  I don't have a moisture meter, so I have no idea when or how long it will be before they would be ready. I have them standing on end in the pole barn, turning them every few days.



Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Jeff

I'd still like an answer on the planer though. I'm trying to justify one. ;)  My other one is just parts now for someone I guess.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

LittleJohn

I feel that you will have to dry them very slowly, to reduce the amount of stress between the wood and bark.

..or just use some trim nails to hold the bark on

BY THE WAY, I have never successfully tried either technique; but I also like the look of live edge with the bark (mostly White or Swamp Cedar)
...I do know a guy with a 50" or so sander ;)

Magicman

That particular tree was live standing rather than a "creek extraction" so there should not be any sand/dirt in the bark.  Also, I kept the butt end high while skidding. 

I would not hesitate to plane it but my planer is not that wide.  Chet's power sanding offer sounded good.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Jeff

Lynn, round trip to Chet's is just short as one way to you, and he's in the same state!
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Magicman

Yup I know, the Iron River/Copper Harbor area is "way yonder".   :o
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Weekend_Sawyer


I've snuck through there a couple of times on bike trips.

Jon
Imagine, Me a Tree Farmer.
Jon, Appalachian American Wannabe.

21incher

I like to let 2 inch walnut slabs air dry for about 3 years before touching them. Stack them flat with stickers and weight on top so they remain flat. Coated or not I always get cracks in from the end when air drying. The good thing about walnut is the bark stays on tight after drying. :)
Hudson HFE-21 on a custom trailer, Deere 4100, Kubota BX 2360, Echo CS590 & CS310, home built wood splitter, home built log arch, a logrite cant hook and a bread machine. And a Kubota Sidekick with a Defective Subaru motor.

Jeff

The 9/4 slabs are destined for riteleg legs. What would be the reason to dry for so long for inside benches?
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

21incher

Quote from: Jeff on January 31, 2017, 01:08:30 PM
The 9/4 slabs are destined for riteleg legs. What would be the reason to dry for so long for inside benches?
I don't know. I just like to let them dry so they are stable and hold a finish well. They will shrink in width quite a bit so hopefully the legs have slots for mounting. :)
Hudson HFE-21 on a custom trailer, Deere 4100, Kubota BX 2360, Echo CS590 & CS310, home built wood splitter, home built log arch, a logrite cant hook and a bread machine. And a Kubota Sidekick with a Defective Subaru motor.

TKehl

Was it creek bottom land that occasionally floods?  The local chainsaw loggers chop the bark with an axe before felling if the ground is subject to periodic flooding.  Upland walnut or any logs above flood line ought to be fine for sure. 
In the long run, you make your own luck – good, bad, or indifferent. Loretta Lynn

Larry

I keep a draw knife right next to my planer so I can peel off any bark before it goes through the machine.  But if I want to keep the bark I just go ahead and do it.  With the carbide knives I run now I don't cringe as much as when I was running HSS knives.

High moisture content wood can interfere with some finishes.  You can't get rely on information from the manufacture either.  Sherwin Williams says I can't spray CAB lacquer on wood over 8 percent....I break that rule all the time.  It will kick me in the butt some day.

Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

newoodguy78

Unless there is visible dirt or small stones in the bark I would not hesitate at all to send them through my planer. I've planed a fair bit of live edge stuff with no noticeable excess wear on the knives.

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Quote from: Jeff on January 31, 2017, 01:08:30 PM
The 9/4 slabs are destined for riteleg legs. What would be the reason to dry for so long for inside benches?

Something that thick I have dried for a year and made an inside bench.
If it cups any at all it want be much. I have taken a bench with legs on it and placed it back on the mill and sawed the cup out of it. Then turn the bench upside down and shave the legs off level again.

Are you using Legrite legs?
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

Jeff

No, I'm using  Riteleg legs. ;)

As it turns out, the planer is a mute point. Most of the slabs have points 15" wide. Any planer I might get would not be that big.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Magicman

Those slabs are already fairly smooth.  When they get drier, break out the sander and go to work. 
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Jeff

Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

newoodguy78

Jeff,

Another option is having a local woodworking shop plane/drum sand them for you. There is a shop close by me that I use (I only have a 13" planer). They do a really nice job and are way more than fair in what they charge.

newoodguy78

Quote from: Magicman on January 31, 2017, 09:14:52 PM
Those slabs are already fairly smooth.  When they get drier, break out the sander and go to work.

Must be the sawyer and his off bearer knew what they were doing   8)

Kbeitz

Look into a router plane.They can be made real cheap.
Utube has some good videos.
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

Ianab

Yeah, a router sled is good for slabs like that. Doesn't matter how good the sawyer is, as the wood dries it's likely to move slightly. Cup, bow etc, Even if it's not bad, it can be enough to notice when you see a reflection in the nice polished surface.

The router sled gets you back to a true surface again, and then you can start sanding.
Weekend warrior, Peterson JP test pilot, Dolmar 7900 and Stihl MS310 saws and  the usual collection of power tools :)

Magicman

It's gonna be a bench.  I would sand it now and then deal with any possible cupping later.  I suspect that there will be very little.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Farmerjw

Cup up and sit on it.  :o :laugh: :D smiley_big-grin2
Premier Bovine Scatologist

POSTON WIDEHEAD

The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

Don_Papenburg

Boss , you know that if you get one of them toy (15" and less) planers you will be disappointed latter get one that is atleast 20" ,24 would be even better.  I have a 16" and need an inch or three more on many occasions and over 20 once and a while.
Frick saw mill  '58   820 John Deere power. Diamond T trucks

Jeff

I just can't justify or afford a larger planer. Buying used already bit me bad on the portable one I have.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

scsmith42

Jeff, to answer your original question you should be able to safely run those slabs through a planer.  We do it all the time.

If you don't have access to a wider planer, your other choices are as follows:

1 - rent a flooring sander and use it to sand.
2 - pay a visit to someone with a wide planer, wide belt sander or drum sander,
3 - Take them to someone with a CNC router.
4 - build a router sled.
5 - Plane / sand them by hand (slowest and least accurate)
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

thechknhwk

When you're satisfied that they're dry enough for what you're doing you're welcome to bring them here.  If'n they're too wet they would be more apt to have tear out.

Jeff

Magician said to post my stack so Danny would covet it. :D


 
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

Magicman

That was obviously sawn stickered by a Master Sawyer Stickerer.   8)
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

WDH

I am successfully coveting it  ;D. 
Woodmizer LT40HDD35, John Deere 2155, Kubota M5-111, Kubota L2501, Nyle L53 Dehumidification Kiln, and a passion for all things with leafs, twigs, and bark.  hamsleyhardwood.com

Magicman

Da trap is set, da proper bait is used, and da slyest fox will be caught.   ;D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Brad_bb

Jeff, I'd let them dry at least a year before I touched them.  As they dry, they may develop a twist.  Although it will take several years to dry down to say 15% throughout, most of their movement will occur in the first year.  they are far more likely to twist rather than cup. 

Now you are not doing glue ups, so you don't really need a planed surface.  When the time is right to flatten them, use a long straight edge (to see the high and low spots or how it's twisted) and go to work with the belt sander. 

I do this alot with the curved braces I cut and slabs, especially the harder stuff like Osage and locust.  I use a 4x24 Bosch belt sander and start with 50, 80, and then 120 or 150 grit.  50 grit will knock down high spots fast.  Float the sander with the grain and in an oval with the grain.  Always keep the sander moving.  It's a lot cheaper solution than planer knives.  Tip:  Use the 3M purple sanding belts with your belt sander.  Better quality and last much longer.

If you run them through a planer, you will get little chips on your knives from the bark.  The bark will always hold some amount of dirt even if it hasn't picked up stones or dirt from the ground.  You can do it, I've done it, but you'll chip your blades a lot faster.  I'm getting ready to install a byrd shelix head in my little bench top planer to cut down on blade cost and the time to change them out.

Lastly, if you want to keep the bark, consider coating it in a water thin epoxy like https://star-distributing.com/store/Clear%20Penetrating%20Epoxy%20Sealer.html

Another good look is to let the bark dry on the walnut for a year or so, and then draw knife the bark off leaving the last layers of bark paper, then sand with 80, then a coat of clear shellac, then sand lightly with 120 or 150.  It will look like this:


 
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

Magicman

Scroll down HERE to find out the "rest of the story" (or at least the beginning) about that Walnut lumber.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

scsmith42

Jeff, it appears that one or more of your long boards may have a split starting from the end.

Sometimes splits in BW tend to grow as the board dry.  A ratchet strap around the end of each split board cinched tight (with an additional click about every 3 weeks or so) would be ideal.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Delawhere Jack

Quote from: scsmith42 on April 12, 2017, 02:03:44 PM
Jeff, it appears that one or more of your long boards may have a split starting from the end.

Sometimes splits in BW tend to grow as the board dry.  A ratchet strap around the end of each split board cinched tight (with an additional click about every 3 weeks or so) would be ideal.

I've seen that in some of my clients BW wide boards, usually 20"+ boards. Will strapping actually halt the growth of the crack? I'd imagine you'd want to get the straps on early in the drying -- as soon as the cracks appear.

I've been under the impression that once a big crack starts, there is no stopping it.

YellowHammer

It depends where the crack is relative to the pith and stress in the boards.  I have arrested big cracks similar to using ratchet strap, but use heavy green pallet strapping instead, and cinch the board end hard with the mechanical tensioner, actually closing the crack, then crimp.  Sometimes it works well. Sometimes it's a waste of time. 
YellowHammerisms:

Take steps to save steps.

If it won't roll, its not a log; it's still a tree.  Sawmills cut logs, not trees.

Kiln drying wood: When the cookies are burned, they're burned, and you can't fix them.

Sawing is fun for the first couple million boards.

Be smarter than the sawdust

Magicman

 

 
Taking a close look at those slabs shows that one contains the pith, albeit close to the edge.  The log was not straight so it was a "traveling" pith.  Since those slabs are destined to wear Legrites, the check will add character.   
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

scsmith42

Quote from: Delawhere Jack on April 16, 2017, 10:51:59 PM
Quote from: scsmith42 on April 12, 2017, 02:03:44 PM
Jeff, it appears that one or more of your long boards may have a split starting from the end.

Sometimes splits in BW tend to grow as the board dry.  A ratchet strap around the end of each split board cinched tight (with an additional click about every 3 weeks or so) would be ideal.

I've seen that in some of my clients BW wide boards, usually 20"+ boards. Will strapping actually halt the growth of the crack? I'd imagine you'd want to get the straps on early in the drying -- as soon as the cracks appear.

I've been under the impression that once a big crack starts, there is no stopping it.

Strapping will help.  The cause of the cracking (IMO) is because the sapwood dries faster than the heartwood, and as it dries it shrinks.  Thus the cracking is almost always much more pronounced in live edge slabs with wide sapwood bands.
Peterson 10" WPF with 65' of track
Smith - Gallagher dedicated slabber
Tom's 3638D Baker band mill
and a mix of log handling heavy equipment.

Magicman

If I remember correctly that log already had a Y pith check on one end.  We oriented the log to minimize the largest prongs but the other prong was perpendicular to the slab and I suspect that that (Tom) is what we are seeing.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Jeff

The cracks are the cracks that were there when the tree was milled. nothing has changed on them even a little. I was turning them against the wall a couple times a week up until I stacked them, and they were all fine.
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

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