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Need Advice Concerning the Alaskan Chainsaw Mill

Started by vcbotto, January 27, 2017, 01:19:08 PM

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vcbotto

I know there are a ton of threads regarding chainsaw mills and specifically the Alaskan Mill.  I need advice.  I am the ultimate weekend warrior.  This is not and will not be my job.  I don't have a huge budget, but I don't want to blow money for no reason.  I do have access to a few properties with trees I can drop and mill (I get to keep the milled wood)!  I work with saws often, BUT, have only used a chainsaw a handful of times.  I do not own a chainsaw or the Alaskan mill so I need to purchase to get the process started.  I know the standard on this forum seems to be, if you're going to use a chainsaw mill you need a chainsaw with at least 90 cc.  So, that puts me into the $800-$1000 for a Husqvarna or Stihl of that quality.  I'm wondering what your thoughts are on starting out with the 50 cc, 20 inch bar Poulan, with a good ripping chain and an Oregon bar just to get an idea if this is something I really want to do.  I don't mind having to push the saw for an extra 5 minutes per board and using good gas and oil.  I am diligent in servicing my tools and will take good care of whatever saw I end up getting.  My ultimate question is, will the Poulan at least get me through a few trees before it burns up?  Is this a good option to become comfortable with using a chainsaw and the chainsaw milling process, OR will I just be throwing money away and that $200 on the Poulan would be better spent as part of the payment for the 90 cc Husqvarna?  Will the 50 cc saw actually get through the cuts?  Thanks in advance to any and all who reply.  Much appreciated!

ChugiakTinkerer

No advice on the saw but I do want to say welcome to the forum!  What are your plans for the wood?  Reading posts about chainsaw milling, it seems that they are awesome for milling beams and timbers, but once you get down to 2" or less in thickness it starts to become a heck of a lot of work.  Good luck and I'm you'll get some good advice shortly.
Woodland Mills HM130

Savannahdan

Welcome to the Forestry Forum.  I first used an Echo 30cc saw to rip some red oak and sweet gum logs.  It did a fine job especially in a free hand mode and using a regular chain.  I upgraded to a used Makita DCS7901 (79cc), ripping chain and a Granberg 30" mill.  It worked great even though the saw needed some TLC.  I purchased the 56" extensions to the Granberg mill and a Husqvarna 3120XP.  My SIL and I have added a Logosol Farmers mill to the mix and we'll use the Makita on it.  Haven't used either of those systems due to recovering from some surgery.  The Poulon will do the job but will need help from a sharp ripping chain, maybe extra oil and patience.  I watched a video last night of a couple who are roughing it and they started with a homemade Alaskan mill setup.  It did a fairly nice job for them.  They are now using the Granberg mill and love it. 
Husqvarna 3120XP, Makita DCS7901 Chainsaw, 30" & 56" Granberg Chain Saw Mill, Logosol M8 Farmers Mill

WV Sawmiller

   I do not own a CSM nor am I a big fan of Poulon. Back when i was trying to do things cheaply I bought several Poulons and when they had problems my mechanic said it was harder to find replacement parts because there were so many variations of the same model. Sthil and others had standardized their products along certain sizes and they were easier to maintain and work on.

   Having said that, if you already have a Poulon and it will work with the mill you select I'd give it a try. I would make sure the mill could be used with other brands which I think is normal. Use it till the saw dies then buy a better one if/when needed. Since it looks like you do not have a saw I'd recommend a more robust make.

   Sorry but I can't comment on the chain. Good luck.
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

vcbotto

Thanks for the welcome.  Savannahdan that is great information.  I appreciate it.  I'm going to use the mill to create rough cut lumber for use in a multitude of DIY projects like tables, benches and the like.  I'll be machining the wood after drying it out, so I think the chainsaw mill will accomplish the task knowing it's to take work work work. 

Momatt

I have done a bit of chainsaw milling with a granberg and a Husky 394.  There was an article in one of the woodworking magazines I took back in the 1990s.  It captured my imagination and I had access to free logs.  I can't say I enjoyed it much but I did harvest a lot of wood, made projects I couldn't have afforded to.  I bought my saw off of ebay.  You don't need to buy a new saw.  If you hate it, you can sell your big saw and recover much of the investment.  Here is the rub, you wont sell your big saw.  Once you have bucked with one you will hate cutting firewood with a "small" 50cc saw. 

My thoughts on your plan to use the poulan--Don't.  It will suck, it will take forever, you will hate it, your saw will cook.     

terrifictimbersllc

I made my first boards using a Stihl 028 with a 20" bar.  Freehand.  Just a few boards. The log was about 2 ft long and standing on end. I couldn't believe it, it was so wonderful.  Then the schemes started.

If spending $200 will keep you from chainsaw milling it will be money well spent ( :D :D :D).  Otherwise it won't matter.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

CTYank

A few years back I got a 576 AT Husqy with a view to using it for some milling, but mainly felling & bucking the larger stuff in the area. Been using it lately for milling, in an Alaskan, some ~30" bitternut hickory, using 32" bar & semi-chisel full-skip chain. It seems "happy" with that, but maybe a 390/395 is in the cards. IOW, flexibility is a good plan. Chains get a quick filing w/30 deg top plate angle, every other fillup. Works fine.

I also use a Dolmar 6100 w/24" semi-chisel full-skip, and PP5020 w/16" or 20" semi-chisel or ripping chain in a "Mini Mill" for ripping/edging bigger logs, once a flat plane is milled.

If some smaller logs, say 16-18" show up, I'd have no qualms about using the 6100 or 5020 for slabbing. Having adjustable carbs, you want to be sure mixture is spot-on, using special adj. tools.

The big preparation work for me was putting together slabbing rail scheme, and study about what's needed to be able to dry the lumber into quality product. Here's hoping on that.

Typically you can get factory refurb 5020s for ~$125. You can always use one for odd cutting jobs and firewooding. I've had one for ~5 yrs- I work it hard but don't beat on it. I love stratos. Feed it good quality mix (mine are happy with e10 and 50:1 full-syn) in proper proportion to air and good bar oil, keep chains SHARP and pay attention- you won't "burn it up".

Chainsaw milling is some brutal amusement, but when you pull off the top slab and look at the wood- WOW!
'72 blue Homelite 150
Echo 315, SRM-200DA
Poulan 2400, PP5020, PP4218
RedMax GZ4000, "Mac" 35 cc, Dolmar PS-6100
Husqy 576XP-AT
Tanaka 260 PF Polesaw, TBC-270PFD, ECS-3351B
Mix of mauls
Morso 7110

bkaimwood

CTYank summed it up best...brutal amusement... mostly the brutal part. I have 3 bandmills and 1 csm...I did my last portable csm job last week. When I got in, I told my wife that was the last client job I would do...I knew I'd be sore for 3 days, and I'm an active dude...and I was. I charge a grossly obscene rate, and I'll be the first to admit it...did I mention grossly obscene? Another call from a repeat client today for that service...told him there's not enough money in the world...politely. The CSM will be decommissioned soon if all goes as planned...and those feelings are with an 088. But I'm also old and typically alone, so take it with a grain of salt...
bk

richhiway

I mill with a 70cc saw, works good. I tested a 50cc saw to just saw the cants but it really did take a while. So try out some small logs with your saw and if it all works out then get a larger saw. If your just doing it for a hobby it doesn't matter how long it takes.

You do need a good ripping chain. Granbergs Chains work well.
Woodmizer LT 40
New Holland 35 hp tractor
Stihl Chainsaws
Ford 340 Backhoe

miro

Like one of the previous comments I got into chainsaw milling via the Fine Wood working magazine article.
I used an XL76 Homelite and a ripping chain in a Granberg mill.
I made my own guides out of flat straight construction 2x5
I used a ripping chain as per the Magazine article - got a sharpening jig plus a box of files and learned how to use them efficiently.
Like you - a weekend warrior - wannabe cabinet maker.

After getting my feet wet, a pal said he was selling his woodlot and that I should come over to get 3 black cherry trees. - my choice.
After the "brutal amusement" was over, I had 52 slabs  7 ft long, 2 in thick varying from 10 to 16 in wide.
I designed and built all of my own furniture ( Colonial 1760's style)

Later neighbours "gave" me a 15 in black walnut, then millied rock maple, birch, poplar .

I still have some of that black cheery and ton of great great memories
(including the heart break of hitting metal) .

I over-oiled the mix - used 25:1 ratio - smokes a bit but after 25 years and several hundreds of hours, the chainsaw is still good to mill today. Ethanol gas was no problem.

It's a ton of fun and you'll never be able to afford the wood that you mill, otherwise. And YOU control the dimensions to YOUR need.

GO FOR IT !

miro

btw - also had to learn how to forge my own carving chisels and gouges because I could not afford "store bought", and learned how to file and set old but very good hand saws

Hard12find

Just my 2 cents worth, I have a small Poulan saw I bought for a homeowners saw, and unlike many I have had real good luck with it, it starts every time, and is light, It originally had a 14 inch bar and I was able to add a couple inches to that, so overall it's been a good saw. That being said, I wouldn't even consider it for the Alaskan mill, great for limbing and bucking firewood, but nowhere enough juice for the Alaskan mill. I have a Stihl 044 with 32 inch bar and sometimes it struggles when slabbing....hope that helps.
Jim

miro

Here's the cover of the issue of Fine Woodworking Summer 1977 that started the "whole thing" (- oops - forgot how to upload pictures - I'll have to refresh my failing memory)
Way before bandsaw mills became available. In retrospect, I think it would have been "nice" to have a bandsaw mill, but I had no place to store it, no place to run it etc etc.
I'm glad that FWW did the articles on chainsaw milling.
miro

vcbotto

Alright, thanks for the all great advice and comments.  It seems if this is something I want to do I need to suck it up, save a bit and keep my eyes out for a good used saw.  Do you think I can get away with the Husqvarna 372 to work with the Alaskan Mill?!

goose63

vcbotto this my set up



 



 

Thats a Jonsred 2188

Its a lot of work with my bum leg and I charge big bucks for it but then I'm the olny one around here that can do it
goose
if you find your self in a deep hole stop digging
saw logs all day what do you get lots of lumber and a day older
thank you to all the vets

justallan1

Although I have never used a CSM, my suggestion would be rather than put out the money on something you're not sure you're going to enjoy and use, maybe look up someone in your area that has one and see if you can't work with them for a day or so.
It's a win for everyone. They get free labor and you get a bit more of an idea of what it's all about.
For that matter, even if you know you are going to buy one, working with someone experienced for a day or so can teach you some tricks that can save you a bunch of time and pain anyhow.
Hope it all works out for you.

Minnesota cowbo

I own a Alaskan sawmill attachment, and use it with a jonsred 2172, with a 36"bar and oragon ripping chain. I love mine. The saw has enough power to Mill hardwood and softwood.
The longest rip we've made was 32 ft, on a maple log diameter that started at 29 inches. If you mill in summer, or during warmer weather, make sure to buy bar and chain out for high temp. Winter use I use regular cold weather bar and chain oil from Husqvarna. Way to remember, orange top winter, white top summer. If I use winter oil in the summer, the saw seems to heat the oil up and boil it in the tank. My cousin tried to Mill with a poulan pro, and did not end well. Saw lasted for two days, and wouldn't start again. For longevity, my advice is not to scrimp on the head unit, I am partial to jonsred, have many many saws from them, and love them all, but use Husqvarna and Stihl at work, and have no complaints. Hope this helps

Brucer

I used a chainsaw mill (for my own use) for 23 years (before I figured out that I needed a bandmill ;D). I started with a 70cc Jonsereds and ran it for 20 years until I could no longer get parts for it. Then I bought another 70cc Jonsereds and carried on. The saw was a compromise between power and weight -- 70cc is barely enough for any serious milling.

Some tips: Open up your high speed jet a little so the saw is running a tad rich (that'll increase its shelf life a lot); Make yourself some wooden kerf wedges -- a little thicker than the width of your chain (that'll keep the chain from scoring your wood on the back side of the bar, and also give you a little more power for sawing the wood); Don't get a bar longer than you need.

And if you haven't had a lot of experience falling trees, get someone who knows what they are doing to help you fall a few trees.
Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

IndyIan

Quote from: vcbotto on January 31, 2017, 11:27:38 AM
Alright, thanks for the all great advice and comments.  It seems if this is something I want to do I need to suck it up, save a bit and keep my eyes out for a good used saw.  Do you think I can get away with the Husqvarna 372 to work with the Alaskan Mill?!
I have a 36" Alaskan with my 372xp, and it works pretty good in stuff like 20" white pine.  I bought a 36" bar but probably 28 or 30 would've been better with less teeth to sharpen and for bar oiling.  Are your logs in a location where the Alaskan is the only option? 
Now I have two neighbors with band mills and I just haul my logs to them, as I also have a tractor now to load them up which was a big obstacle before. 
I haven't sold it though and have used it to resize some beams I had milled.   Watch a lot of youtube videos on them, its real work but its the cheapest way to saw a few logs.
Also I took a 2 weekend course on using chainsaws at our local community college which covered safety, saw maintenance, and basic felling and bucking techniques.  It makes you buy the PPE and if you get a used saw, the instructors could help you tune/adjust it so its running right to survive milling.

Jesper Jepsen

The short answer is Yes.. you can do it with a 50cc saw but you will kill it pretty fast. I wonder if you are going to kill yourself in frustration before you kill the saw or.. ;)

The problem with too little saw is that it's going to put a very high strain on the saw and it can't keep the chain speed up and that you push the saw and it bites into the wood having more trouble to cut and... well you stall it.
The other issue it that CSM is hard on the saw because you run it full open for longer periods than you do when cutting down trees. Stihl only officially says that the MS661 and MS880 are for CSM.
My setup for small diameter and short logs https://youtu.be/ipe16Rj12T4

Jesper

Brucer

Quote from: Jesper Jepsen on February 06, 2017, 01:36:18 PM
... CSM is hard on the saw because you run it full open for longer periods than you do when cutting down trees....


That's exactly why I ran my saw a little rich. Advice from Will Malloff who literally wrote the book on chainsaw milling.

Bruce    LT40HDG28 bandsaw
"Complex problems have simple, easy to understand wrong answers."

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