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Author Topic: Newbie stuck on <simple> joinery  (Read 2121 times)

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Offline tburch

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Re: Newbie stuck on <simple> joinery
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2017, 12:08:46 am »
Yes, I have adjusted them since I started.   Initially, I had 1" holes, 1" from the edge.    Now, I have 3/4" holes, 1.5" from the edge.

I'll clarify.  Initially, I had 1" holes, centered 1" from the edge.  Now, I have 3/4" holes, centered 1.5" from the edge. 

I'm reading the maroon book.   Page 118.   Posts and sills.  8X8 timbers.  For the sills, there are 2" M&Ts, 2" from the edge.  On the mortised piece, that leaves 3" of wood.  The 1" peg hole in the mortised pieces appears is centered 1.5" from the edge.   

The tenon is 4 7/8" long, with the hole just shy (since it's offset) of 1.5" from the edge.  Let's call it 1/4" offset.  (Might be 1/8" offset).   That leaves about 3 1/8" inches from the edge of the peg hole to the end of the tenon.  This works out to be less than 4 pegs holes from the edge.   

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Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Newbie stuck on <simple> joinery
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2017, 12:31:55 am »
Rule of thumb for sizing. Tenon is 1/4 timber width, so for an 8x8 timber the tenon is 2". We normally offset it the same 2" and it is called a 2by2 layout. Pegs are normally 1/2 the tenon thickness. So for a 2" tenon you should/could be using a 1" peg.
For 6x6 timbers your tenon is 1 1/2" thick and peg is 3/4"
Normal peg hole location is 1 1/2" off the shoulder of the tenon timber and most of the time centered on the tenon, unless there are two pegs required by the engineer. Then they are spaced as the engineer says. But usually not in the same grain line of the mortise timber.

Hope that helps.

Jim Rogers

 

 
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Offline ljohnsaw

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Re: Newbie stuck on <simple> joinery
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2017, 12:52:52 am »
Normal peg hole location is 1 1/2" off the shoulder of the tenon timber

Jim, is that 1" measurement from the shoulder to the center or edge of the peg?  I'm thinking edge.
John

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Offline tburch

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Re: Newbie stuck on <simple> joinery
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2017, 07:07:14 am »
Jim, with the square rule method, (as illustrated in the maroon book), the timbers are pared down from 8x8 to 7x7s at the joinery.  So, even though timbers are pared down to get to the perfect timber inside, the rule of thumb, therefore, always applies to the rough timber?
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Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Newbie stuck on <simple> joinery
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2017, 12:43:16 pm »
Normal peg hole location is 1 1/2" off the shoulder of the tenon timber

Jim, is that 1" measurement from the shoulder to the center or edge of the peg?  I'm thinking edge.

I use 1 1/2" to center of hole. You see in the mortise timber the engineers don't consider the housing as a take away from the timber. So it adds the housing or 1/2" to the timber. They figure it's 2" off the long grain of the mortise timber when they do their calculations.

Jim Rogers
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Offline Jim_Rogers

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Re: Newbie stuck on <simple> joinery
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2017, 01:01:07 pm »
Jim, with the square rule method, (as illustrated in the maroon book), the timbers are pared down from 8x8 to 7x7s at the joinery.  So, even though timbers are pared down to get to the perfect timber inside, the rule of thumb, therefore, always applies to the rough timber?

Yes the rough timber is an 8x8 so the tenon is 2by2 layout.

You need to understand that when he wrote the maroon book he needed to cover his butt to make sure that every where the frame was built it would be safe.
When I told one of my timber framing teachers that I was going to cut that shed frame for a learning experience. And to use it to teach others timber framing he suggested several changes to make it easier. One was to not reduce it to 7" but to reduce it to 7 1/2". That saves a lot of housing work. The only place you may need the 1" housing would be at the tie beam to post joint. Especially if you're going to be storing something heavy above the tie beam in the loft area, like lumber for example.
If you're going to use two inch full dimension rough sawn planks for the roof decking you can space the rafters at 4' oc. (if you snow load is not real high). Everyone needs to verify snow loads for their area before making some joinery decisions.

Jim Rogers

 

 

The above frame was sold and erected in Halifax, VA:

 

 


Whatever you do, have fun doing it!
Woodmizer 1994 LT30HDG24 with 6' Bed Extension