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Author Topic: Post Oak  (Read 1863 times)

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Offline Den Socling

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Post Oak
« on: January 24, 2017, 07:08:00 pm »
Can anybody verify that what's called Post Oak growing in Oklahoma is actually a White Oak? And if it is, how bad are the tylosis?
I assume the tylosis is where it gets it's name.

Offline RPowers

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Re: Post Oak
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2017, 08:52:07 pm »
I live in NW Arkansas just shy of Oklahoma, Post Oaks all over here, especially wolf trees in the pastures or old fields that can get huge. You know as well as I that what someone calls something and what it is don't necessarily match, but if it IS a Post oak then it is a tyloses-filled white oak. I think it makes prettier lumber than true Quercus Alba, and has better rays in a good log.

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Offline Den Socling

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Re: Post Oak
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2017, 09:41:27 pm »
That's what I figured, thank you. A customer wants to dry Post Oak 3 1/2" thick. This isn't going  to be easy. He doesn't have the steam that I normally use on thick WO. Thanks again.

Offline ozarkgem

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Re: Post Oak
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2017, 05:17:29 am »
Yep White Oak family. They look very similar. The easiest way to tell is the White Oak bark will be sort of scaly at the top of the tree where the Post Oak isn't. I am getting ready to saw some and log some more.
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Offline Joey Grimes

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Re: Post Oak
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2017, 09:19:23 pm »
Post oak is one of my favorite of the white oaks the color is much darker then other white oak
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Offline Den Socling

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Re: Post Oak
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2017, 09:47:41 pm »
So you dry it in a DH kiln?

Online YellowHammer

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Re: Post Oak
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2017, 10:37:13 pm »
Post oak is one of my favorite of the white oaks the color is much darker then other white oak
I agree, post oak seems to be a better grade of white oak.  It's called post oak because it grows straight as post, or more like a telephone pole, and the lumber is equally straight.  Typically very tight growth rings with very few defects.  I will select post oaks out of the log pile at the accumulation yards any time I can see them.

We dry it all the time in a DH kiln.   
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Offline Den Socling

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Re: Post Oak
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2017, 11:08:33 pm »
OK this should work. I imagined that they were called Post Oak because they were used to make post and that was done because the were very resistant to rot because of a lot of tylosis. I had it all wrong. Thanks for the enlightenment.

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Re: Post Oak
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2017, 12:07:37 am »
OK this should work. I imagined that they were called Post Oak because they were used to make post and that was done because the were very resistant to rot because of a lot of tylosis. I had it all wrong. Thanks for the enlightenment.
I don't know if that's wrong, maybe it's a regional thing.  When they are small they could be used as fence posts, they are certainly straight enough, and white oak is very resistant to rot anyway, so they would last a long time.  However around here, we use cedar for fence posts, which lasts longer than the metal "T" posts in some cases.
We have quite a few white oak and post oak on our farm, and in this general area, and post oaks are noticeably straighter, slightly slimmer, with a constant diameter trunk further up the tree, and much fewer limbs on the trunk, and in the woods, look very much like a telephone pole with leaves.  They also have very tight growth rings, at least around here, and I get the impression they are slower growing, but that's just my thought.  I'm sure WDH could explain it better.  However, since they are generally so straight and limb free, they have very few defects and typically result in very clean lumber. 
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Offline WDH

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Re: Post Oak
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2017, 07:54:01 am »
They are more adapted to drier sites than true white oak.  Acorns are a lot smaller.  Leaves in the shape of a cross.  Kind of like water oak in that it can be very high quality or very low quality depending on the site and the stand conditions.  Do not believe that the wood is distinguishable from true white oak. 
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Offline Bill Gaiche

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Re: Post Oak
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2017, 08:31:05 am »
Where I live, post oak is everywhere. In my yard, across the road on state land and corps land. We have zero white oak in my area that I have ever noticed. We have quite a few Bur Oaks. Post oak got its name because it was used as such and lasted a long time. My dad and I used to split post oak in N W Arkansas for post. For neighbors and such $0.15 a post. Big money. I have used them for post 6x6 in two of my drying sheds and they will outlast me. I have never sawed any for furniture lumber yet. Don't know how well it would do or look. It definitely is strong wood. I use two for ramps for loading my tractor onto trailer. bg

Offline pineywoods

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Re: Post Oak
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2017, 10:07:55 am »
In this part of the country, post oak is so named because of it's use as fence posts. It's ideal, rot resistant, splits easily and readily available. I know of fences with post oak posts that are pushing 100 years old..It's my preference for trailer decking, which I saw a good bit of..
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Re: Post Oak
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2017, 01:05:36 pm »
Then it's as I initially thought. It sounds like the vessels are packed. How thick are you guys with DH kilns able to dry? Thanks for all of the input.

Offline WDH

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Re: Post Oak
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2017, 08:09:57 pm »
I have only done up to 9/4.  It was all air dried first, though. 
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Re: Post Oak
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2017, 09:59:21 pm »
I've done a few of 8/4 but don't remember anything special except it wasn't fun drying 2 inch white oak.

I've done a lot of 4/4 and I don't notice a difference to other white oak, but I go pretty slow on it.
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Offline GeneWengert-WoodDoc

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Re: Post Oak
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2017, 11:14:33 pm »
Someone might be interested in a few bits of data. 

First, there is the white oak group of species which has rounded leaves vs. red oak with pointed ends, has sweet acorns compared to red, and is often considered to be water tight (for most species within this group).  White has the large vessels, like red, but in white, they are typically plugged with junk.  The plugs are called tyloses. 

Within the white oak group there are maybe 20 commercial species.  One of these is chestnut oak, which does not have the tyloses, so would not be used for wine barrels.  Also, within the white oak group is a species called white oak and another species called post oak.  This white oak species is fairly common and widespread, but in the lumber market, the name "white oak" refers to the group and not to the specific species.  Much of the post oak otoday has interbred with white oak, so we often have mixed or cross breed.

Post oak is the same density as white oak.  It is about 13% weaker and 20% more bendable.  The hardness is the same in both.  Regular dryng procedures (my experience and textbooks) do not consider post oak to dry any differently than white oak.

The US Forest Service says the name is because it was used for posts.  It does resist decay very well, as do all white oaks.  What is special about post oak is the fuzzy fibers on the bottom of the leaves.
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Re: Post Oak
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2017, 08:27:54 am »
I'm curious as to what Gene said about post oak and white oak crossbreeding.  The post oak in our area is noticeably straight, slim, and clean up the trunk, and the trees do not grow as large as the more common white oak. 

Do you guys see a different tree shape in other regions?  We have lots of common white oak, only a small percentage is post oak, and I can see a good chance of cross pollination.  Maybe I can market it as "North Alabama Hybrid White Oak."   ;D

I also didn't realize the significant increase in bending capability.  Does this translate into a better choice for customers who do steam bending? 

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Offline Bill Gaiche

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Re: Post Oak
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2017, 10:41:48 am »
The White Oak is the state tree in Maryland. When I was there in October I saw a lot of these trees. Some on nephews and cousins land. They were very tall, straight and good size. Limbs starting many feet from the bottom. They are a beautiful tree. On there land they cannot cut them without some kind of permit. I didn't understand what that all meant. They may have been in a area that is protected from cutting any trees. All the post oak in our area, the limbs start growing closer to the ground than white oaks which I have seen in other areas. We have lost a lot of post oak here in the past few years, don't know why they have died.bg

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Re: Post Oak
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2017, 04:42:35 pm »
As you move West in the South, post oak becomes a limby, low quality tree.  However, Central Texans swear by it as a BBQ wood.
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Re: Post Oak
« Reply #19 on: January 27, 2017, 05:27:29 pm »
I've worked in MO some and post oak is most certainly the bastard of the white oak group. There is nothing about it that would engender anyone to it. I'm not an oak expert but in MO it was pretty clear what trees were white oak and which were post oak. In that neck of the woods I would say a white X post oak hybrid to be very uncommon.

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