Brass in the T20 winch oil

Mountain_d · January 23, 2017, 10:33:57 PM

I took the advice from some other posts and changed the oil in my new-to-me TJ230E 1978. The old fluid was gold coloured from what must be brass from the gear / bushing. No chunks but tiny flakes. See the picture. Not sure if you can see the golden colour of the old oil. I replaced with new 80w90 as per the service manual. Is regular 80/90 ok with the brass parts or should I use something else or synthetic 80/90 ( if there is such a think)? I am hoping this is normal and jurgst indicates the previous owner was behind on his oil changes. I will plan to change the fluid again after a few days to rinse out some more brass. What is the brass from? Is it a gear or bushings or both? If a gear, I wonder what the reason is for a brass gear? Any comments to share your experience are welcome. Mountain D.

Neilo · January 24, 2017, 03:43:50 AM

This is what happens when you put 90w or 80/90 in a worm drive winch.

They require special worm drive oil.

I suggest you take the filler plug out and look at how much wear is in the brass gear. They are reversible as a set.

Mountain_d · January 24, 2017, 06:31:30 AM

I wonder why my service manual lists 80w90 for a T20 winch?

Mountain_d · January 24, 2017, 08:08:41 AM

Here is a link with some info on brass worm gear lubrication. Looks like a PAO or PAG rated lubricant works best. I will see if Napa folks carry this. It is new terms to me.
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/1080/worm-gears

Neilo · January 24, 2017, 08:42:29 AM

I have listed oils for the Hercules winch before. Might be able to search for them.

In my hurcules, I use Mobil Super Cylinder Oil 600w but there's others. Look for the corrosion rating.

pineywoods · January 24, 2017, 09:32:58 AM

There's another gotcha we all tend to ignore. The mating surfaces between the gears needs to be immersed in oil, just splashing some on the worm is not good enough

Maine logger88 · January 26, 2017, 05:28:40 PM

Mine looked the same way when I got it someone used 80/90 in it. Been using 85/140 synthetic and it doesn't have nearly the filings it used to have. You wanna keep an eye on it. A new gear is 1400

Mountain_d · January 26, 2017, 08:55:25 PM

Thanks, Mainlogger. I will get some and change it up.

Maine logger88 · January 26, 2017, 09:08:31 PM

Harrolds logging used to sell a oil specifically for that purpose but they said they can no longer get it so I just use the synthetic and change it fairly regular

Neilo · January 28, 2017, 04:57:41 AM

Why would you use the wrong oil when you can use the correct made for a worm drive?

Maybe you prefer to change gears with the downtime instead of finding the right oil?

Mountain_d · January 28, 2017, 07:30:57 AM

NAPA did not know anything about worm gear oil so I bought some 75w140 synthetic for now. I will contact the lub shops and keep looking for the worm gear oil. Neilo, how low of temperature would the worm gear oil still do the job? Maybe it gets too thick at minus 25C so not used in the cold climates? The synthetic cost $25 Canadian per Litre.
Mountain D.

dnash · January 28, 2017, 08:38:42 AM

Go to the local Massey Ferguson dealer and get some Agco "Special High Pressure Worm Gear Lubricant". It comes in a 4l jug, should be enough to do 2 or 3 oil changes.

Neilo · January 28, 2017, 09:34:36 AM

A worm gear oil is specified worldwide by timberjack.

Puffergas · January 28, 2017, 11:29:16 AM

Here's some worm gear oil stuff.

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/169/worm-gear-lubrication

Mooseknuckle · January 28, 2017, 04:21:18 PM

A few photos for ya!! I used the Boston 600W in my Hercules Worm Gear. I also included the very common and easy to find Agro worm gear oil. Located it at a Massy Ferguson dealer. I included some photos of my old brass gear and worm gear along side the new ones. My Hercules winch had no oil in it and im assuming the previous owner was to lazy to fchange the seal so he just pumped some grease into the worm gear resevoir. Just brilliant!!!!

Both the Boston Gear Lube and Agro were easy to find so you should have no issues.

Mountain_d · January 28, 2017, 07:20:30 PM

Thanks again folks. Great info. Those gear pictures drive the point home ! I have a Massey dealer near me so I can try them.
Mountain D

David-L · January 29, 2017, 07:51:42 AM

Not to change the post, what about a t30a (119 Gearmatic winch oil recommendation). Thanks

Ed_K · January 29, 2017, 09:47:12 AM

I have a drum of gear oil that was used in engine lathe's, that I use. I've never had the pinion side of my 19 apart so I can't say how it's working. Only problem I have is the bottom drain plug leaks a little, but it hidden under the plate that holds the winch onto the skidder.

GRANITEstateMP · January 31, 2017, 03:11:12 PM

Neilo & Mooseknuckle, any idea on capacity of the winch? I'm sure the worm drive oil isn't cheap and I'd rather not buy too much! After reading your other posts about the Worm Drive oil, we're gonna drain and fill the stuff in our old girl. She isn't a production machine by any means but we'd like to make sure it stays productive pulling our firewood for many years to come.

Thanks

Maine logger88 · January 31, 2017, 04:59:00 PM

Quote from: GRANITEstateMP on January 31, 2017, 03:11:12 PM
Neilo & Mooseknuckle, any idea on capacity of the winch? I'm sure the worm drive oil isn't cheap and I'd rather not buy too much! After reading your other posts about the Worm Drive oil, we're gonna drain and fill the stuff in our old girl. She isn't a production machine by any means but we'd like to make sure it stays productive pulling our firewood for many years to come.

Thanks

If I remember right 6 pints. Should be a plug you pull out on the side. Just fill till it runs out the plug

Mountain_d · February 01, 2017, 07:00:35 AM

This looks like it should work. Minus 40C pore point and copper corrosion test of 1a which is good for brass. Anyone out there ever use it? It is called Lubriplate. See the link for the specs.

https://www.lubriplate.com/PDFs/PDS/6_4C-Synthetic-Worm-Gear.aspx

Mountain_d · February 18, 2017, 08:09:07 PM

I picked up my case of 12 x 1 litre Lubriplate synthetic worm gear oil. It costs $25 per litre and had to get a case minimum order. In Ontario you can get it from BDI Canada and Acklands is supposed to carry it also. Should last me a while as the book has a change interval of 500hours and it takes 3 litres per change. Case cost $330!! Here is a link to the spec sheet. https://www.lubriplate.com/PDFs/PDS/6_4C-Synthetic-Worm-Gear.aspx