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Blade Smoking

Started by woodweasel, January 15, 2017, 09:52:16 PM

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woodweasel

 So , I sold my  Lt35 to a fellow in another state. He texted me after he used it a time or 2. He said the blade was smoking? Never did that for me . He said it was a new blade. I told him to make sure the drive belts And wheels were clean and to make sure lube was on. Told him to check blade tightness. Obviously I'm not there, so I cant see anything. He was sawing  erc 18"- 20" wide. I'm thinking he was going a little fast.  Any ideals?

Magicman

Sounds like he possibly dulled the blade.  It only takes one pass through dirt.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

WV Sawmiller

   What was he cutting at the time?
Howard Green
WM LT35HDG25(2015) , 2011 4WD F150 Ford Lariat PU, Kawasaki 650 ATV, Stihl 440 Chainsaw, homemade logging arch (w/custom built rear log dolly), JD 750 w/4' wide Bushhog brand FEL

Dad always said "You can shear a sheep a bunch of times but you can only skin him once

redprospector

The only time I ever had a blade smoke on a band mill was when cutting power poles. It was like someone doing a burnout.
Sounds like they're running the blade way too long.
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

warren46

Is it possible that the blade is installed backwards?
Warren E. Johnson
Timber Harvester 36HTE25, John Deere 300b backhoe/loader.

drobertson

Quote from: warren46 on January 16, 2017, 06:00:56 AM
Is it possible that the blade is installed backwards?
X2. Many blades come in reversed,  that need flipping changing the teeth direction of cut, could be this simple, ?
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Jjoness4

Several years ago a friend of mine brought a table saw.  First time sawing a red oak board his wife called the fire department because she thought the garage was on fire.  Blade was backwards.  It happens.
2017 LT40HDD35 , Kubota 4701, Ford 3000, Stihl Farmboss

Magicman

Quote from: WV Sawmiller on January 15, 2017, 10:26:28 PM
   What was he cutting at the time? 
He said erc,  (ERC)

Yup, the blade is either dull or backwards.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Joe Hillmann

Is it actually smoke or just steam?

drobertson

Quote from: Joe Hillmann on January 16, 2017, 10:47:00 AM
Is it actually smoke or just steam?
This too came to mind, I've seen a smoke like whatever you call it at times usually during winter sawing, just little hints at the blade exit, so just how much smoke we talking about?
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Magicman

I took the word "smoke" to mean hot. 

I have seen sawdust produce a cloud of vapor but only a few times.  It was from sawing a warm log on a cold morning sorta like blowing your breath out. 
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

bkaimwood

Quote from: Joe Hillmann on January 16, 2017, 10:47:00 AM
Is it actually smoke or just steam?
Joe is reading my mind, followed by others...
You NEED to know which one before you can aid the guy that bought your mill. I've been sawing ALOT lately, hence my minimal involvement here lately...and I've seen lots of "smoking" blades on my mill, but it's actually steam and/or vapor. Sawed 2k+bf of the toughest stuff I think a fella could find in my region...logs were dirty, used 5 blades, but had the 3 worst words I could put into a log description....frozen, dry, hickory. Exit side of the blade produced this steam phenomenon all day...afternoon high 23 degrees, in the sun...
bk

woodweasel

Haven't heard anymore from him. I've told him about this site several times. I hope he will look us up. You fellows have taught me a bunch of neat STUFF. ;D ;D ;D

POSTON WIDEHEAD

Magicman made a statement some time back that ERC is an abrasive wood.
He is exactly right.
Actually, even using a debarker and a sharp blade,  sawing ERC too fast will produce a little smoke and will dull your blade sooner than you like.
Slowing down your feed rate, even with a sharp blade will produce smoother cuts and no smoke.
If you see smoke coming from behind the blade and you are still getting a smooth cut, its probably time to change blades. Its just not good to try to get all you can out of that blade.
I saw slower on Cedar than any other wood. Simply because I seldom get logs that the knots are perfectly flush with the bark face. Knots, even though sawed off with a chain saw can till be 1 inch long causing a debarker to bounce. When the debarker bounces from sawing to fast, you saw dirty logs. Cedar is probably one of the nastiest logs to saw. So I just slow my feed rate down, let my debarker do its job and my blade will not smoke and my blade will last longer.
The older I get I wish my body could Re-Gen.

woodweasel

  The majority of what I saw down here in Central Texas is cedar. I find it a whole lot easier to saw than oak and mesquite . Might be a different cedar than what you guys saw , but I love it and I don't have a debarker  ???

Magicman

Did we ever get an answer to the original question about the blade smoking?
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Bluejay27

I think the blade might have just fell in with the wrong crowd and was trying to act cool.

And one thing worth checking when blades start acting up is how it's tracking on the wheels. My brother broke a few blades a little too soon and it turns out he's been tracked out a 1/4" or more on the front but also riding against the guide flange. Although he's always good for a few maintenance issues or broken parts, so I shouldn't be surprised. The lubemizer wasn't working and he needed it for some SYP, so I had to replace a blown fuse and work around two broken fittings (gotta love what frozen water can do in an enclosed space).
'98 Wood-Mizer LT40HDD42 Super, '08 LT40HDG28, '15 LT70HDD55-RW, '93 Clark GPX25 Forklift, '99 Ford F550

woodweasel

Magicman, Havent heard back from the smoking blade guy. I do know I'm missing having a sawmill around the place. I'm gonna have to buy some 2"x6"s and 2"x12"s for concrete forms in need to pour a slab for the kiln. >:( >:( The LT 40 Hyd. not scheduled to ship until 2-28. I will p/u at Kirbyville Texas. Just like a kid waiting for Christmas 8) 8)

Magicman

Yup, he was probably doing something that he doesn't want to talk about.   ;D
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

Deese

SMOKING BLADE ALERT: Okay, I am sawing DRY syp logs that have been on the ground for the better part of a year. They look rough, but they still have a lot of "meat on the bone". Actually, they are much better than I ever thought they would be. So, I sawed a few logs late yesterday evening and everything was smooth. Heck, I started sawing these logs last week using zero blade lube. Blade never smoked and the only reason I ever began using the lubemizer was because I was getting sap buildup on the blade. I'd turn the lubemizer on slow pulse and that remedied the problem.

Well, I got up early this morning and was at the sawmill at daybreak. I needed to saw around 50 1x8's before my 8am job started. It was noticeably cooler than usual. My phone said 64° at 5AM. The first log I sawed this morning was a big, nice one. All of my 10° blades are dull, so I've been using new Kasko 4° blades. The first or second pass on this log and white smoke was blowing out the exit chute like crazy, right before it exited the backside of cut. I mean, there was no smoke, then smoke everywhere. I thought for sure I must have hit something other than wood. There was a little dip in the cut right where this happened. I should have changed the blade immediately, but I didn't. Started next cut and smoke everywhere so I immediately slowed my feed rate and hit the lubemizer wide open flooding the blade. Too late. The blade dove and the drive belt started screaming at me.

So I backed out of the cut and put on a new blade. And made sure to keep the soapy water flowing full throttle while going slower through the cut. It would still smoke, but not quite as bad, and cutting smooth with no dives. But still a little smoke on exit side of the blade every now and then.

This has been on my mind throughout the day...
I haven't had much experience with this mill. Maybe 50 hours of actual sawing so far with this machine.

The blade was obviously dull or getting dull, or it wouldn't have dove, right?
Maybe it was a combination of a dull blade, and pushing a 4° blade too fast through a 24" DRY syp log?
Chilly weather + big DRY syp + dull blade?
Will the blade smoke it it's pushing against the flanges on the blade guides?
Did a Goat have something to do with it?
2004 LT40 Super 51hp w/6' bed extension
Cooks AE4P Edger
Cat Claw sharpener/Dual Tooth Setter
Kubota svl75-2 skidsteer w/grapple, forks, brushcutter
1977 Log Hog Knuckleboom loader/truck

paul case

We can blame it on the goat for now. He is the new forestry forum unofficial official scapegoat.

PC
life is too short to be too serious. (some idiot)
2013 LT40SHE25 and Riehl edger,  WM 94 LT40 hd E15. Cut my sawing ''teeth'' on an EZ Boardwalk
sawing oak.hickory,ERC,walnut and almost anything else that shows up.
Don't get phylosophical with me. you will loose me for sure.
pc

Deese

Obviously a dull blade, but after thinking about it, I probably wasn't sawing fast enough...
2004 LT40 Super 51hp w/6' bed extension
Cooks AE4P Edger
Cat Claw sharpener/Dual Tooth Setter
Kubota svl75-2 skidsteer w/grapple, forks, brushcutter
1977 Log Hog Knuckleboom loader/truck

Magicman

Deese, did you check the blade to check for heat.  If a blade is hot, normally it is dull.  Water/lube will cool it somewhat but it is getting toward dull.

I have found that 4° blades dull much faster than 7° or 10°.  Just a bit of head thinking and there is the answer,  4° blades are much closer to 90° so they are doing more scraping than the higher degree blades.  Thinking about a knife blade whittling; the more perpendicular it is to the wood the more scraping and less cutting.  Scraping dulls faster than cutting.
Knothole Sawmill, LLC     '98 Wood-Mizer LT40SuperHydraulic   WM Million BF Club Member   WM Pro Sawyer Network

It's Weird being the Same Age as Old People

Never allow your "need" to make money to exceed your "desire" to provide quality service.....The Magicman

terrifictimbersllc

If it was really smoke not steam or mist then your blade would have been very hot and the tension would have dropped.  Dull or not it could dive or climb if it lost tension.

In my experience logs on the ground remain wet and don't dry out.   

If you were sawing and the blade started heating up , tension would drop and applying water lube would cause tension to rise again.
DJ Hoover, Terrific Timbers LLC,  Mystic CT Woodmizer Million Board Foot Club member. 2019 LT70 Super Wide 55 Yanmar,  LogRite fetching arch, WM BMS250 sharpener/BMT250 setter.  2001 F350 7.3L PSD 6 spd manual ZF 4x4 Crew Cab Long Bed

Deese

Thanks for the comments fellas. The tension dropped some, so the blade got hot, which meant it was dull. These logs are super dry the first couple inches deep. Then it's all good once you get past the big pine borer beetle holes.
2004 LT40 Super 51hp w/6' bed extension
Cooks AE4P Edger
Cat Claw sharpener/Dual Tooth Setter
Kubota svl75-2 skidsteer w/grapple, forks, brushcutter
1977 Log Hog Knuckleboom loader/truck

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