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Moving logs

Started by Randy88, January 08, 2017, 10:52:33 AM

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Randy88

I have a lot of logs to move, nearly a mile through a pasture and some steep hills to get my logs to civilization enough to load them on my trucks and trailers to haul home.     

I don't have a logging dray, always seem to be either too high priced or are already sold when I find out about them.    I'm needing to build something to move the logs without damaging the owners pasture, with all the rain we've had this year, the plan was to move them once the ground froze, but as luck would have it, we've had rain, inches of rain and it froze to ice, anywhere between inches to feet thick where the logs are at and now its nearly impossible to even get to with a four wheeler or tractor let alone anything else.         

Anyone built a logging dray without a loader on before, the ability to flex over rough ground is essential.      Skidding them has been vetoed by the owner due to damage to the pasture and I've tried to hire them moved with no luck so far.     

I'm looking for ideas or thoughts what others would try I've not thought of as of yet.   

If anyone has built one, let me know I'm needing idea's as to how to go about it.   

Its been estimated at least 20, 48 foot semi loads to move, maybe up to 30 loads and as they say the clock is ticking and everyone is getting impatient and the weather is not cooperating.     I've not yet damaged any property and I'd like to keep it like that, but everyone seems to becoming upset with me that I can't get them moved, you guys know how it goes, they can't blame mother nature so they blame the one they can..........so its my fault its not done yet.   

coxy

I don't understand what the trouble/ damage would be if there is that much ice on there jm2 cents

Autocar

When I was a kid my dad made a skid about four feet long with 4 x 6 runners under it. Roll one end up on the skid and chain in down and pulled it out with a A.C. tractor. The skid was heavy built and was bolted togather. Good luck .
Bill

Maine372

can you use a dozer or other crawler machine to pack down a road, then skid across that?

or even use the packed road to truck over?

CCC4

Even an 848 skidder isn't gonna blow through a foot of ice...even 6 inches. Get all the logs to where you can load trucks and worry about the damage if any later.

CCC4

If you let that ice melt you are gonna be waiting months, get it now while you can

bill m

Randy88, it doesn't sound like you have the option of building something with the time constraints. Your best bet would be to hire it out or rent a machine. It's good to here you are respecting the landowners request that you do not skid in fear of damage to his land. We all know with the ice and frozen ground the likely hood of damage is minimal but if he says not to skid then you don't.
NH tc55da Metavic 4x4 trailer Stihl and Husky saws

Randy88

We started this project in the fall and fought rain the whole while, it was so muddy most day's we couldn't move logs with my skid steer at all, a few day's during the project things dried up enough we could drive the truck back and load logs directly onto my tag trailer via one route, which we did, we've already moved about 20 tag trailer loads of logs out and others had someone lined up to move the rest with semi's and 48 foot log trailers.    Its really complicated and a long story but they hauled four loads and backed out of hauling them in a deal cut with one landowner due to miscommunication lets say at no fault of mine.      So today as I type this, everything was supposed to be hauled home and delivered, which didn't happen so now its back in my lap to finish it up and the best weather and conditions are behind me with deals cut by others with others that didn't get carried out.           

At freeze up this year, which came early, was accompanied with rain, lots of it as in inches over several days period of time, where we piled, pulled and have the logs spread out over the pasture area, water flowed slowly down the valley and they are now under inches to feet of ice encasing most of the logs and the routes there and back and covered in inches of sheer ice and are dangerous to even attempt to drive.     

We need a warm up to get rid of some of the ice and then refreeze enough before mud season sets in this spring to move the rest out in a few days time to stage them near a gravel road, which we now have permission to place the logs.   I need a way to move many logs in a short time from where they are now to where they need to get to before mud season hits.   

I'm needing something and a logging dray would be ideal, but we're thinking about making a dray less the loader for now, for time sake,so when the few days before spring that might be ideal to do the job, we can be prepared for them and get this job done ourselves and not rely on anyone else.         

As for doing it today, most all the logs are incased in ice or covered completely in ice or the ice is so bad its to the point of being dangerous to attempt it, I'm planning for the ideal days when it will work and before spring hits.     

I have asked those I know and forwarders are not popular in my area, don't know of anyone that has one, don't know of any drays either, most just use skidders and skid them out to a staging area.     I can't afford to buy one for one job and don't know of anyone to rent one from for a few day's use.       

When this whole deal started, the owner who's land we'd be going across, said no dragging anything, it had to be hauled and not tear up his pasture, at the time it never occurred to me it might end up being winter before it got done, nobody involved thought about ice to the extent we've got now.   

coxy

if you have a skid steer could chain it up and move some of the logs that are not frozen in my skid steer is great on ice if you have chains on all 4 wheels and they are v bars don't know how far it is you have to move them  I understand with LO they can be a little to picky at times  I not shur what you would be hurting if it frozen with ice  if you where going to move them with a forwarder  whats the difference if they are skidded  maybe try pleading with him that now is better than later and the weather has not been on your side don't know what else to say

Randy88

When we couldn't get my truck and tag trailer to the logs, a few days we used the skid steer to move the logs to the road, it took an entire day of using the skid steer to move enough logs to load one tag trailer.     

As for dragging them, I don't have a skidder at all and with the ice, not sure I could drag them with a tractor at all.     I have dozers but with the ice as thick as it is, they are worthless.         

A friend of mine just called and recommended me putting log bunks of sorts on wagon running gears and hooking a couple gears together and when the ice leaves hook up either a dozer or tractor and load with the skid steer and pull with a tractor or dozer and stage them all closer to the road in three or four day's time when the weather gets better.     

I'd never given this a thought till he called, we have a few 8-10 ton gears under gravity boxes we could pull out and take the boxes off to use, bolt some welded up bunks out of 3x3 tube to each bolster axle and when done, just unbolt them and put the gravity boxes back on again.     

Another friend called and recommended finding an old manure tanker frame and use that for a chassis to mount bunks on, kind of my initial thoughts, but now the search for a chassis with a rusted out tank someone has sitting in the weeds somewhere. 

killamplanes

What u need is a grapple truck to pack them to a road. Tandem with pup. If conditions are ruff unhook the pup. Not a semi with grapple trailer, there not near as versatile. With all this said, your landing would have had to be excessissible for this. There's many around very comin here north. Rent with operator by the hour. I honestly believe it's your  most cost effective route.  2 of us packed 250k ft ought 1 mile, in 3 long days last spring. I don't do for hire much but guy had a mess, farmer mad etc. Logger was a friend in a pickle but it worked out. But all this is mute if your landing is not set up correctly. My2c
jd440 skidder, western star w/grapple,tk B-20 hyd, electric, stihl660,and 2X661. and other support Equipment, pallet manufacturing line

Gearbox

Can you talk to the LO and ask if you tear up his pasture you will disk and reseed come spring . Be prepared to put it in written statement signed and witnessed . Then live up to your contract . You may come out ahead in the long run .
A bunch of chainsaws a BT6870 processer , TC 5 International track skidder and not near enough time

HousewrightVA

Randy
You are on the right track with the wagon running gear.
With a skidsteer at each end I can move a lot of logs a couple of miles fairly quickly.

 

Put chains on and the ice is not as much of a problem.
skidsteer logger
Case 1840  440  580B
2016 LT40 Super

kjm logging

lets ask this question how long are the logs and dia of them   in the past I rented a artulated loader with a set of forks on it and was able to carry 6  16 ft logs about 16/18 inch dia

Puffergas

Jeff
Somewhere 20 miles south of Lake Erie.

GEHL 5624 skid steer, Trojan 114, Timberjack 225D, D&L SB1020 mill, Steiger Bearcat II

Randy88

Size varies from firewood logs six inches in diameter up to and over 3 feet in diameter and anywhere from six feet long to over 40 feet long, the bulk of them are not cut to length as of yet, only short enough to be lifted with the skid steer and moved to the pasture area.   

Ed_K

 I use a hay wagon running gear, the pole has a bolt hole for 10's 12's and set 8's on top of them, or I can move the pole out and move 16's and 20's,with 14's on top. I used channel iron bolted to the cross frames to hold the logs on. I have had 6- 30"x16' pine logs per load and almost 1/2 truck load of pulp on with no problems. I didn't put a floor on cause the frame flexed better without it,going thru dips and thank you mams.
Ed K

Riwaka

Do you think there will be a snow phase?  A forwarder (8x8) with ecotracks.
https://youtu.be/KC9jF-Gskk8
Use burners to melt the ice round the loags carefully.

There are forestry trailers with powered wheels from ag tractor pto etc.
Over the pasture - wyssen type system , aerial cable way with poles in the ground.
https://youtu.be/FMIJEMgXxRI
Ideally you find a spare huey with a helihawk grapple and an experienced heli-crosscutter, and go in and lift all the large logs.
https://youtu.be/hr2VF9QFB1Y

I suspect the gears with chained up tires and an ag tractor with chains if conditions allow. Skid steer to load and another machine to unload near the road, or load straight onto a truck.

Puffergas

A backhoe would break the frozen logs from the ground.
Jeff
Somewhere 20 miles south of Lake Erie.

GEHL 5624 skid steer, Trojan 114, Timberjack 225D, D&L SB1020 mill, Steiger Bearcat II

Randy88


I've got to get back up and see what things look like, but tomorrow we're supposed to have more freezing rain/snow mix.

I have an excavator to break the logs loose if need be, if nothing else we can at least pile them up neatly so it won't look so bad having them spread out like they are now.     

Ed K, how tall of uprights do you use and how heavy of gears do you use?    Its looking like that is the plan we're going to implement for now, we've rounded up four gears so far I can use for this project, the forwarding trailer will have to wait unless I stumble across one shortly.   

   

AlexHart

I wonder what it costs to helicopter logs like that.   ~300/mbf? 

Good luck on the log evacuation project.   I wouldn't think you'd want very high uprights on your wagon(s).  Maybe 24" or so off the top of my head but maybe the wagon will take more than I'm giving it credit for. 

coxy

Quote from: AlexHart on January 09, 2017, 10:45:16 PM
I wonder what it costs to helicopter logs like that.   ~300/mbf? 

Good luck on the log evacuation project.   I wouldn't think you'd want very high uprights on your wagon(s).  Maybe 24" or so off the top of my head but maybe the wagon will take more than I'm giving it credit for.
don't know how true but I was told around 5000 an hour :-\

Randy88

They used the large twin rotor helicopters in my area a few years ago to move and set the all steel high H uprights for the high voltage transmission lines and those cost 15,000 an hour per helicopter and the meter ran whether it was running or not once it left the helipad at the airport it was operating out of.   

coxy

I was only off a few grand  :D

Ed_K

 My channel iron up rights are 1/2"x 4' the running gear is only 3 ton. I bought it new for $1500. but at the time it was all I could afford. An 8 ton dual rear axles would be better if you have one there already.
The up rights are a little loose the last time I used it but I'm thinking of putting a spacer on the bottom bolt holes to make them spread out a little. I did see some where on an old thread of a wagon running gear where they used a heavy cross beam and pipe up rights but then you need to lift higher to load the logs.
Ed K

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