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Annoying Sweep at Beginning of Cut

Started by tors10, January 06, 2017, 02:14:56 PM

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tors10

Hey Guys/Gals,
I've had this reoccurring problem with my bandsaw mill. When I start a cut the blade sweeps upwards, then back down a bit, before cutting straight at about a foot and a half. It seems to be more of a problem with harder woods than softwoods. After it stabilizes the cut is perfect. Is this a blade adjustment issue?

Here are a few photos:



Advice is appreciated!

DDW_OR

what mill, your location, blade type, pounds of tension, new or resharpened.

edit:

how fast are you feeding?
start at a very slow speed for the first 3 inches.
"let the machines do the work"

Deese

Welcome to the FF tors10

What type of mill do you have and do you have your blades properly tensioned?
Is this a new blade with proper set in the teeth?
2004 LT40 Super 51hp w/6' bed extension
Cooks AE4P Edger
Cat Claw sharpener/Dual Tooth Setter
Kubota svl75-2 skidsteer w/grapple, forks, brushcutter
1977 Log Hog Knuckleboom loader/truck

tors10

Additional information is as follows:

  • Mill: Woodland Mills HM 126
  • Blade:  1.25″ x 144″ x .042″ Lenox Woodmaster C Sharp hardened tipped
  • Blade Condition: New (in the photos)occurs with all my blades to varying degrees
  • Tension: Tensioned by feel, just beyond a bit of vertical play
  • Feed speed: I've tried fast, slow and very slow; doesn't seem to affect it

fishfighter

Quote from: tors10 on January 06, 2017, 02:47:39 PM
Additional information is as follows:

  • Mill: Woodland Mills HM 126
  • Blade:  1.25″ x 144″ x .042″ Lenox Woodmaster C Sharp hardened tipped
  • Blade Condition: New (in the photos)occurs with all my blades to varying degrees
  • Tension: Tensioned by feel, just beyond a bit of vertical play
  • Feed speed: I've tried fast, slow and very slow; doesn't seem to affect it

I have the same mill. Check the blade alignment how the blade is tracking on the wheels.

If I remember, 35FP tension. I crank the blade to the point there is no play.

If my mill starts to do a cut not even close to that bad, the blade has to be real dull. You can also have a bad set of blades too!

Best blades for me are Kasco 7 degree blades. Cheaper then what you have.

tors10

Okay thanks, I'll start with alignment though I've done that in the past without an lucky.  Next I'll try one of my newly sharpened blades. Maybe the factory ones are a bad batch.

Any chance that rubber on the band wheels might be the culprit? It gives me hope that you have the same mill and don't have the same problems!

sawmilljoe

First thing I would do it turn your tension up a lot more. I have the same mill and I can almost say for sure you need more tension. Only other thing  is make sure your tracking is right and not taking the set out of your blade

ozarkgem

http://www.suffolkmachinery.com/
Click on the catalog bar and go to page 15. I think it says trouble shooting. It will tell you why your blade is doing that.
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

Bruno of NH

I don't care for that brand band
I would try kasco, wm, or timber wolf
Lt 40 wide with 38hp gas and command controls , F350 4x4 dump and lot of contracting tools

ozarkgem

Quote from: Bruno of NH on January 06, 2017, 06:14:13 PM
I don't care for that brand band
I would try kasco, wm, or timber wolf
Wasn't recommending the brand of blade. It has a trouble shooting sections that explains why your band is doing what it is doing and how to fix it. Goes for any brand.
Mighty Mite Band Mill, Case Backhoe, 763 Bobcat, Ford 3400 w/FEL , 1962 Ford 4000, Int dump truck, Clark forklift, lots of trailers. Stihl 046 Magnum, 029 Stihl. complete machine shop to keep everything going.

fishfighter

Like I said, check your blade tracking on the wheels. You want the back side on the blade to match up with the back side of the wheel. Make sure the blade teeth are not riding on the wheels. That will take the set out the blades on one side fast.

Keep us in the loop and what you find.

tors10

Quote from: ozarkgem on January 06, 2017, 05:26:58 PM
http://www.suffolkmachinery.com/
Click on the catalog bar and go to page 15. I think it says trouble shooting. It will tell you why your blade is doing that.
That's a phenomenal resource, thanks. The first item in the troubleshooting guide described my problem exactly. The wood I am cutting is white oak, which is hard enough that it is causing the "push-off" according to the guide. This seemingly can be resolved with a blade made for harder or frozen wood, designed with a lower hook angle (-2 degrees from the existing angle). Guess I'll have to order new blades and hope for the best.

tors10

Quote from: fishfighter on January 06, 2017, 02:58:14 PM
Quote from: tors10 on January 06, 2017, 02:47:39 PM
Additional information is as follows:

  • Mill: Woodland Mills HM 126
  • Blade:  1.25″ x 144″ x .042″ Lenox Woodmaster C Sharp hardened tipped
  • Blade Condition: New (in the photos)occurs with all my blades to varying degrees
  • Tension: Tensioned by feel, just beyond a bit of vertical play
  • Feed speed: I've tried fast, slow and very slow; doesn't seem to affect it

I have the same mill. Check the blade alignment how the blade is tracking on the wheels.

If I remember, 35FP tension. I crank the blade to the point there is no play.

If my mill starts to do a cut not even close to that bad, the blade has to be real dull. You can also have a bad set of blades too!

Best blades for me are Kasco 7 degree blades. Cheaper then what you have.

The Suffolk guide seems to agree with your 7 degree blade choice. Think I'll give them a go.

Thanks!

drobertson

Blade marks look familiar to one that may be damaged, but these don't usually finish well.  Is that the butt end of the log by any chance?
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

tors10

Quote from: drobertson on January 06, 2017, 07:48:03 PM
Blade marks look familiar to one that may be damaged, but these don't usually finish well.  Is that the butt end of the log by any chance?

That is the butt end of the log. I think that log is the first one I cut with that blade and it wasn't terribly dirty. This logs are a bit big for the mill, but I'm slowly getting through them.

drobertson

New blades can have issues that resemble obstruction strikes, not sure what to say, been there, not sure what I would do, have to be there I reckon, you will get it I'm sure,
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

Brad_bb

I've had this happen occasionally with the harder hardwoods - Osage, locust, oak, dry ones too.  While there are many factors that could be at play here, I'll tell you what I've learned.

1. Know your mill and keep up your maintenance, period.   I've had my mill for two years and just did my first oil change (I figured I've got 100 running hours on it).  I didn't think there's any chance my belts had any issues.  I checked them and the drive belt had cracks.  I ended up changing drive belt and wheel belts., oil, and fuel filter.  Also I should have been cleaning my air filter more often than I was.  All this time I didn't know how to check or set the drive belt tension.  I finally read the manual, and talked to the mill mfg.  It's really easy.  Woodmizer has a tension tool also that could be used on other mills.  I also read to understand how to set the band tension correctly and mine was not correct.  So I reset that.    All these things really helped to eliminate possible causes of problems.

2. If you have a smaller or lower horsepower mill, you should run lower degree bands.  My 18 HP Woodmizer LT15 would be considered a lower horsepower mill.  I had all kinds of trouble trying to run 7 and 9 degree bands wandering up and down.  I bought these because one salesman advised they'd be better on the reclaimed beams I was milling.  With all the trouble they gave me, on my next order I talked to another salesman who told me that the 9 and probably the 7 were too much for my mill.  He advised using 4 degree bands.  They take a smaller bite that my mill can handle.  The higher the degree band, the more power it takes to drive it through the wood.  4 degree works great on my mill and that's all I ever use now.  I mill Beech, Oak, Osage, walnut, and Ash mostly.

3.  How you start your cut matters.  Experiment.  I've been told to start the cut at normal forward speed.  This works ok on some woods, but on the harder ones, it can make them climb like in your picture.  When you first start a cut, the band is not captured.  Once you're into the cut, it's somewhat captured on top and bottom.  So if you start your cut slow, which I do on the hard stuff, you may have a minor climb for the first two inches, but it seems to work better for me that way.

4. Listen to and feel your engine load.  If you feel your engine being slowed, your're probably pushing too hard/feeding too fast.  My mill is a manual crank.  I've found I can hear and feel the happy place for my engine to keep cutting consistent.

5.  Sometimes it's just that particular band.   I've had it happen with new bands and resharp bands.  Sometimes it's just a problem with that band.  Change it and it and the next one cuts fine.  I can understand it with resharp bands.  If that band hit metal and got resharpened, but maybe it was too out of whack, you could still have a set issue in the resharpened band. 

I'm not an expert, but this is what I've learned so far.
Anything someone can design, I can sure figure out how to fix!
If I say it\\\\\\\'s going to take so long, multiply that by at least 3!

dustyhat

Check your drive belt tension, maby try a little belt dressing and see if it helps.

boscojmb

Quote from: tors10 on January 06, 2017, 03:17:37 PM

Any chance that rubber on the band wheels might be the culprit? It gives me hope that you have the same mill and don't have the same problems!

Yes, my old mill started doing the same thing.

New band wheel belts and an alignment solved the problem.

I would also turn the log around and saw from the small end. Sometimes the wood at the very bottom of the first log saws hard.

I hope this helps
John B.

Log-Master LM4

reswire

If the log has been in my yard, or cut for more than six months, the end of the log dries first causing a blade wave at start.  With fresh cut logs, I don't experience any problems at all.  Now if someone brings me a log, I ask how long it's been down, if the end is dry, I sit off six inches or so if possible.  Just my two cents. :-\
Norwood LM 30, JD 5205, some Stihl saws, 15 goats, 10 chickens, 1 Chessie and a 2 Weiner dogs...

Ohio_Bill

I agree with turning the log around. As a general rule you should not start your cut from the butt end of the log especially dry hardwood like oak, hickory or hard maple.
Bill
USAF Veteran  C141 Loadmaster
LT 40 HDD42-RA   , Allis Chalmers I 500 Forklift , Allis Chalmers 840 Loader , International 4300 , Zetor 6245 Tractor – Loader ,Bob Cat 763 , Riehl Steel Edger

Peter Drouin

I don't have time to turn logs from end to end, I cut them as they come. If the blade waves It's dull. And new blades don't mean nothing. I had to set and sharpen new blades out of the box. Had one box had set on one side only. 
A sharp blade and a good alignment the blade will cut flat.
A&P saw Mill LLC.
45' of Wood Mizer, cutting since 1987.
License NH softwood grader.

redprospector

Quote from: Peter Drouin on January 09, 2017, 07:11:05 AM
I don't have time to turn logs from end to end, I cut them as they come. If the blade waves It's dull. And new blades don't mean nothing. I had to set and sharpen new blades out of the box. Had one box had set on one side only. 
A sharp blade and a good alignment the blade will cut flat.
Exactly!
1996 Timber King B-20 with 14' extension, Morgan Mini Scragg Mill, Fastline Band Scragg Mill (project), 1973 JD 440-b skidder, 2008 Bobcat T-320 with buckets, grapple, auger, Tushogg mulching head, etc., 2006 Fecon FTX-90L with Bull Hog 74SS head, 1994 Vermeer 1250 BC Chipper. A bunch of chainsaws.

clintnelms

I have the same mill also and I would double check and make sure your track is level in that area. Mine was kind of doing something similar and I found that I just needed to raise the one section a bit and it fixed my problem.

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