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How to make a well?

Started by Buzz-sawyer, November 30, 2004, 10:08:07 AM

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Buzz-sawyer

Recently I read the input to Bill Johnsons well post and it brought up a million questions I have about the topic.
I live up on top of a hill in the woods. The terrain is a mix of glacial rock and red clay below the rich top soil.
About 50-75 below my house site is a sandy/rocky creek that flows 9 months of the year. All except dry of the summer.

I dont know much about wells.
I have read about driving a well point down but doubt it would work... with the water proof clay here, it would plug the screen?
Maybe I could go down near the creek to tap the underground flow and sandy soil and drive it down then trench a line with a backhoe up from there??? ::)
OR , here is my favorite idea, use a backhoe to dig a deep square pit near the creek, then place a large plastic barrel with holes in it covered with the black permiable filter fabric.....using it to filter and store water as with a sand point...... :).....OR use a bunck of the corrugated black septic line with a fabric "SOCK" on it to accumulate and store water.........of course we would back fill the pit with the rocky sand...........
Am I nutz? ::)
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Buzz-sawyer

Also at the top of the hill , at my houise I have a 1500 gallon plastic cistern, which I would like to do the following........treat the water with chlorine , then put it through 3 filters
1 for sediment,
2 for taste and 25 micron stuff,
3 then a tight 2-3 micron filter for any thing left........any water treatment minds out there? :P
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Kirk_Allen

Buzz,
Cant help much on the well stuff but can tell you that the best water purification system out there is carbon filters and/or reverse osmosis. Not sure on the OSMOSIS spelling.

Concerns & Questions on treating your water with Chlorine.  
How is the Cistern filled?  Rain water from gutter collection I assume.

If you treat it properly you will find that the only way to do it is treat 1500 gallons at a time.  This ensures proper balance.  If the tank is getting filled by rain water after you treated it then you would end up having an unbalanced water supply. (under-treated)

When it comes to filltering the water I know that Qixstar (Formaly Amway) makes the best carbon filter system available.  With this you would not need to purify the water.  The other one is Reverse Osmosis and I dont think you would need to purify with this system either. Not sure who sells the revers osmosis system.  The taste is excellent from both types of systems.    

In suburbia we have water strores.  You can go in and pay more for a gallon of water than a gallon of gas.  The water is pumped through a very large reverse osmosis system.  Im sure they probably make a system for home use.  I know there as small units for under the sink for drinking water.  Depending on how much you want to fillter would determine the size.  

Hope this helps.



DonE911

You can buy a RO system for your drinking water at home depot or lowes for around $400.  I had a small one that installed under the sink that worked like a champ..  the water was very good and our water has lots of iron in it.  We had a good water conditioning system for th well, but it didn't get enough of the iron out... would kill the ice maker and coffee pots fairly quick.  The RO took care of that problem.  The RO was small and only had a 1.5 gallon storage tank, but it was perfect for the drinking water.  The large RO systems designed to do the whole house are very very pricey.

Sorry, but I can't tell you anything about the self drilled well... have done it many times down here in S FL but the water is shallow and its only sand and a thin layer of hardpan to tap into it. They were just to fill ponds for cattle to drink... all our home wells are professionaly drilled.

Larry

First thing I would do would be to get your water tested or maybe a neighbors water from the same source tested to see what your up against.  Most of the wells around here have so much atrazine and nitrates in the water that it can't be used or treated on a small scale.  Most everybody is on rural water and we pay big dollars for it.

Our extension office used to test water...think it was either free or very low cost.  They also were very helpful on design of a water system.
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

FiremanEd

Buzz,

What you're describing about digging a hole near your spring/creek and putting in a barrel/pipe/tank would be refered to as a spring house in our parts. That is how a lot of the water was collected before electric and deep wells around here. You should be getting very clean (dependant on local ground water quality) water out of that spring that should require very little filtering. Just what you described, dig a whole right were the water comes out of the ground, build a box of wood, put in a barrel w/ the bottom cut out, culvert pipe etc, anything to create an underground void, to collect the water. Then put in a pump, possibly 12volt from a battery / solar panel, to pump water up the hill to your house system, or if you wanna be like grand-ma, a wooden bucket and a well worn path.

Good luck.
Full time Firefighter / Paramedic
WoodMizer LT300 as secondary, full time job.
AccuTrac Electric Edger

Jeff

You need one of these.
http://www.lifewater.ca/ram_pump.htm

Ask Brother Noble about this, he knows where on is at. ;D
Just call me the midget doctor.
Forestry Forum Founder and Chief Cook and Bottle Washer.

Commercial circle sawmill sawyer in a past life for 25yrs.
Ezekiel 22:30

SwampDonkey

I've found several artesian wells. Well I say found, but some were known by others, long before my time. But, I did discover one that no one suspected. It was right where I said it was along the edge of a field that woud weep in the spring and fall. It wasn't stagnate, you could see it gush up from the ground, I don't mean like old faithful, but it gurgled (minus the sound). I told the folks that bought the farm to built their house there and they would be able to tap into it. Well they didn't have to drill deep before they struck it and the water was gushin like a guiser all the rest of that late fall and winter. :D I know there is another about 300 feet above my line in the field behind the house and there was one more below the neighbors house. There's no ledge at their location, you could dig to China with a back hoe if you wanted. But, there is ledge pockets in the neighborhood.

Buzz if you have a fair size lot take a stroll in the fall or spring time and see if you see water moving up out of the ground with some flow. Not that dead stagnate stuff in depressions. You'll have the best water ya ever drank, and ya don't have to go deep. The ground is usually black and rich looking. Father had a watering trough for the cattle years ago that came from a hand dug well, that was the best water any cow ever drank. I used to hold my hand over the pipe to build up pressure and squirt the cows, or my younger brother. :D :D ;D ;)

Any artesians I''ve found are on ground with a convex (upward bulging) surface to the ground. I've noticed 3 old wells at old abandoned logging camps too while on fishing trips. The pipe is still their in the ground gushing water out like a pump. It wasn't brook water because the brooks in those areas are dark with high iron and organic contend, like coffee. We call the brook trout in those areas red bellies. In cleaner water they have white bellies. ;)
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

shopteacher

Before we had city water our house had 2 cisterns and collected rain water from the roof.  I had and still use a sediment (sand and gravel) an activated charcoal filter and an ultraviolet filter.  The ultraviolet kills any bacteria or other creepy crawlers. You can't believe how much dirt is collected from the city water and it highly rated.  The carbon filter now eliminates the chlorine taste and odor.  I got a good pump (used about 2 years) and tank with bladder if antibody's interested.
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Fla._Deadheader

  YEP, that's how I'd do it. ;D ;D :D :D
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Buzz-sawyer

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Fla._Deadheader

  

   :D :D :D :D :D  I'm really too tired to add to this tonight. Been roadin and Sawin and roadin since 6 AM. Just got in 10 minutes ago. ::) ???  I did the spring box AND know about the RO. In the morning, Buzz. ;) ;)
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Furby

Check this out:
Deep Rock

We have one in the family and they do work. They can be a pain though, and a couple of extra hands helps a lot. They have options for different types of soil, so look around the site or ask for their free info.

Haven't done it, but you can set these up to drill horizontal into a hill, or down on an angle. If there is a good source, you could get a free flowing well. Sounds like it may be something you could use.

The design is REAL simple, so ya may want to make your own rig, and just buy from there spare parts for the stuff you need to. ::) ;) ;)

Fla._Deadheader

  I built a spring box right on top of a SPRING. Worked real well. YOU have a CREEK. How much water flows from the hillsides and upstream, when you get storms and melt ???  Trying to keep a box, tank, barrel, whatever from getting contaminated with run-off will be a never ending chore. Think about the debris of leaves limbs, etc.

  Ram pump ratio, if I remember correctly, is 1: 7. It will pump UP 7' for every 1' of fall. Still have the problem of debris. If the water stops at all, ya gotta re-start the pump.

  Getting water uphill is EZ. Nearly any pump, solar, power company, windmill, will get it done. Keeping a CLEAN supply side will be the trick.  

  Check with a local well driller, and see if they actually DRILL or use a cable-rig. A cable rig is for shallow wells. A cable rig uses a sand-bucket.

  Auger a hole until you can't go any deeper, for whatever reason, hopefully water. We used to have a telescoping auger that would reach 8'. It WAS a bear to use, but, I was lean & mean back then.  ;D Then set up a tripod and sand bucket. That's just a pipe with a leather flapper mechanism in the bottom. Pour water in the hole and "Bounce" the sand bucket off the bottom a few times, (trial & error will dictate how many times). Pull it up and dump it out. Keep checking until you start seeing SAND or small gravel. That will be the beginning of the underground stream. You WILL need Grandmama's Pitcher pump. That's how you check the water supply on a driven point, same as I posted earlier. Well drillers use air to check the supply. A casing CAN be put down, using the sand bucket. Then you have water rising up inside the casing for the storage. With that, you can install the special cap for sealing the casing, and, with a casing, use a submergible pump and avoid the freeze-ups. Won't have to worry about water for the rest of your life, IF you hit a good stream.

  That idea that Furby posted, has been around for over 30 years. Haven't used one, but, 30 years might be something to check into???

  RO for drinking water is all you need. IMO, Chlorine is slowly killing people. What does it do??? Kills bacteria. What keeps us alive??? Bacteria. Think about it. ;) ;) ;D

  
All truth passes through three stages:
   First, it is ridiculed;
   Second, it is violently opposed; and
   Third, it is accepted as self-evident.

-- Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)

Buzz-sawyer

Thanks for the replies.
I have been using 2 under sink type filters for 7 years and.....well removing the chlorine makes drinking water a pleasure, we jst re fill those clear drinking water bottles over and over.......tastes as good as the money water!

We have really hard yelow/redish clay here..starting at about 1 foot down till china.
I am not sure how that bears on well drilling, but we got plenty of big rocks too. :o
As far as the diggin of a spring house pit.......
I dont have any artesian springs on my property, and that branch does go dry for 2-3 months.....I was hopping that by digging down the full back hoe depth, I might tap into were the water "settles"? or the table ....there is a layer of flat rock at stream level....it makes a beatiful water fall when flowing :) :)
I am pretty sure I would be dealing with surface water at only 12 feet, so that is why I am thinkin on chlorinating, then removing it with carbon and 2 micron filter, I like the idea of Ultra violet light purification, ...I have read how well they work in the 3rd world...............seem really pricey :o :o..........
There is no city water available if I wanted it ...I have cistern for rain set up now ::) ...and haul water :(
I think TOM tried that hydraulic drilling when about 4 years old and pioneered it in Florida!!!!
When drilling in hilly locations isnt it sensible to go to a low spot to drill thus getting deeper w/o drilling 100'?
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SwampDonkey

Buzz as far as drilling/digging near artesians on them convex ground locations, its not hilly, its undulating land, not on steep hillsides. And there are usually knolls with sand/gravel underlain. That's why sometimes the water surfaces quite a few yards away, coming out of the gravel and topsoil at the base of the knoll. As I said earlier alot of these artesians are in fields or ones abandoned sometimes. That knoll creates downward preasure on the source and by drilling into it the pressure gets releived by forcing the water up the drilled hole. The neighbors built a basement foundation right over the source practically, but they don't get water in the basement it's a ways down, I'de say 30 feet. I know several wells only drilled 60 to 65 feet down, some do go dry (temporary) in summer or with large families. This one I referred to above runs 6 gallons/minute and doesn't go dry, it was drilled and cased. Father's watering drough only stopped flowing in winter when the pipe froze up in subzero temps. That's all gone now as father tore it all out years ago when he was done with cattle. His wasn't artesion, just hand dug well. My cousins still use the same well and grandfather used it for years as well as a sisturn. Everyone in my neighborhood had sisterns and hand pumps. In mom's neighborhood where she grew up it was all hand dug wells and springs. I don't like sisturns as I used to find dead rats in them and it can cause dry rot in your basement. Good way to catch the cholera or worst if not treated. We only used sisturns for washing.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Larry

Ya got any witches over that way?  A good one can not only pinpoint the vein they can tell how deep and how much.  Don't ask me how I know. ;D
Larry, making useful and beautiful things out of the most environmental friendly material on the planet.

We need to insure our customers understand the importance of our craft.

slowzuki

Re dirty city water, the only filtering in most cities pulling from lake reservoirs is a 1/4" screen to keep woody debris out.

ibbob

Buzz,

That pretty flat rock at the bottom of the stream sounds like bed rock.  Sure won't get a sand point thru that.  Even if the backhoe can get a hole you will still just be collecting run off.

I wouldn't try to make drinking water out of that or cistern water.  RO followed by UV would prolly be the safest if you have to.  Another thing to consider with your limitted supply is the water wasted by the RO unit.  Less than 1/2 of what goes in comes out the other side clean.  The rest goes down the drain.

Of course you can always whip up a batch of Holy Water.  Boil the hell out of it.   :)  Akchuly, two minutes at a hard boil will kill all the critters.
Bob

Buzz-sawyer

Heres the problem...I get run off from the missisipi river from the municipal water supply....why cant I treat what I collect outta the sand under the creek (with chlorine) then use activated carbon and .02 u filter after that?
That is more treatment than the water outta the river gets.. :o
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Furby

Buzz,
The water coming out of the stream, is probly ground water from the higher ground you are on. It hits that layer of rock on it's way down through the soil, and follows it out sideways. Digging below it will only create a pond, more or less. The water will still run out during the dry season. That layer of rock is probly shale of some kind. Heavy clay will have areas of water bearing gravel, you just need to find it. Around here the first layer of gravel is at about 8', but it doesn't bear water.

The do it your self drilling rig can go through some rocks. They have bits that you can retip with a torch as needed.
Your best bet is to simply drill a well, either up by the house, or down at the bottom of the hill, but I would stay away from the seasonal stream area if you could.

Have you called a well driller in your area? You can get all kinds of info from them if you have them come out and give you an estimate. Then maybe use that info to do it your self.

The well rig we have is burried in the back barn, but it might be possible to get ya some pics if ya want. Other wise just ask Deep Rock for their free info, it has pics of the rig and different components. You can drill a 6" well with one of their smaller rigs, if you do it in stages. I'll try to remember to bring their book with me on Thurs. and see if there is anything in it that will help ya.

duke401

you guys are pretty lucky my house well is 340feet an some irr. wells are 550. water is pure though 99.9%.  
duke

Buzz-sawyer

Furby there is coal on that creek through that area........
I read that whole web site you posted....I have in the past also.
I believe I could build a well rig like that out of stuff I have. (I would need pipe, and cutting tips though)
I also have a pto post hole auger I have thought about using with lengths of pipe added to go deep.
Startin to sound like  BiG job now.. :o
I know a guy who has dug many by hand also......maybe thats my next step ;)
I have dug down bout 14 feet no gravel just pieces of football sized granite etc. intersparced around...
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Furby

Was that 14' at the top of the hill?
How tall is this hill anyways?
The PTO auger would get ya a good start! I would think you would have problems with the rocks at some point though.
How much work would it be to add sections of pipe to the auger?
When my grandpa and uncle did wells, they would start with a manual post hole auger, and add a setion of pipe. After getting a good start, they either drove the point by hand, or used the drilling rig.
Does the coal contaminate the water at all?
I would think your best water is going to come from a well. Weigh the costs involved in a well, vs. the chemicals and other equipment you have been talking about.

Buzz-sawyer

The coal isnt soluable........The hill is about 60 feet up from the creek...
I am wondering now, geologically, if the coal strata lends itself to pockets of water or aquafer.... ???
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