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Author Topic: New member with questions  (Read 2028 times)

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Offline littlewiz88

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New member with questions
« on: December 21, 2016, 09:39:17 am »
New member here,
Before I start on my own escapade I must say that in the few months Iíve been searching on this forum before joining I have been very impressed. Lots of good information and not a lot of banter. My kind of people. Thank you. Now some background before I start asking questionsÖ
My wife and I are going to be building a home in the spring and while we wonít be building the frame we will be helping out and doing much of the other work ourselves. We are a young couple on a budget but highly motivated to do what it takes to get what we want. We have been working with a local one-man timber framer since April designing a frame and modifying our floor plan to work with this style of building. So far we have learned A LOT. Up until now we have been doing our best to get accurate quotes/ prices so that we can stay close to our budget. Many days have been spent at the local lumber yard explaining things and digging through catalogs, shelves, etc. About a week ago we had to bite the bullet and write a check for timber to be cut so that it could start drying. So we are starting to see the darkness at the beginning of the tunnel.
About our design:
26í x 36í. Four bents with three bays. Shed dormer on both sides of the roof in the center bay only. One for the master bathroom and another to get some high windows to let light in out of the south. The frame will be a mixture of white oak (due to strength needs) and rough sawn white pine.  Full basement (unfinished), main floor, and loft with master bedroom and bathroom.  We are planning on using polyurethane SIPs panels for the roof and walls.

I have quite a few questions:
Does anyone have any pictures of a mixed oak and pine frame? We would like to just see the color contrast between the two. Iím not worried, my wife is a little bit.
What have others used to protect the interior timbers? I am thinking a good varnish on the oak, Iím just not sure about the rough sawn pine. Is there some kind of oil we could use on the frame? Spray on or brush on? Apply this winter/spring before the frame is raised or after?
Any thoughts, feelings, or recommendations on using the SIPs panels?
Recommendations for a good UV resistant stain for the timber frame brackets in our gable ends?

I realize I havenít given a lot of info about our frame but Iím going to save that for another post as this one has gotten a bit lengthy.
Thanks in advance,
J

Offline Rougespear

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Re: New member with questions
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2016, 10:44:27 am »
Welcome aboard Littlewiz88!  I cannot answer your questions - but I look forward to the answers from others.
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Offline Plankton

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Re: New member with questions
« Reply #2 on: December 21, 2016, 11:08:57 am »
I don't have any photos but the oak will he a light tan colour and the pine will be a rich yellow color if that helps any. Do you have an idea of where the oak vs pine is going to be in the frame?

You could try to use the different species with consistency and accentuate the difference in colour. For example oak summer beam and pine joists might be visually interesting. Obviously strength of the frame comes first.

Ive never Been involved in a timber frame with oiled beams but for flooring, trim etc. My favorite finish is 100% tung oil thinned with a cistrus thinner that would get mighty expensive on a frame though. Boiled linseed would be a good cheaper option I think maybe capped with poly of some sort.

Probably best to finish sand and oil just before raising because there's an awful lot of handling in between and applying it after its standing is a lot of extra work

Another thought if your oiling them anyways you could stain them using two different colors to achieve a similar look on both. Would take some experimenting on test peices but that might be an option.

Good luck with your build!

Offline nativewolf

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Re: New member with questions
« Reply #3 on: December 21, 2016, 12:06:54 pm »
I like tung oil too.  In terms of seeing timber contrast I'd look at the bloke, down this page, that did his own frame.  I am not sure how selective he was in timber species choices but he finished it nicely, well oiled. 

The first place I'd go to look at timber species mix in a single structure would be pictures from repurposed barn timber frames.  Many many of those (in NE at least) had multiple species and when repurposed they sometimes were cleaned up a bit and oiled.  I would hope that somewhere some of the barn repurposing folks have some good pictures for you.  Good luck!


Offline classicadirondack

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Re: New member with questions
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2016, 08:02:55 pm »
I've had pretty good luck with Chevron's "Shingle Oil"

Offline newoodguy78

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Re: New member with questions
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2016, 12:31:48 am »
Land Ark is another finish you may look into. Never used it on oak but really liked it on the pine frames I used it on.

Offline Don P

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Re: New member with questions
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2016, 07:47:44 am »
Landark does fine on oak, we applied it to a mixed oak frame 10 or so years ago over a boiled linseed oil shop finish. Like most clear finishes it is not that durable outside.

I wouldn't put a film forming finish on until you are sure the moisture content is bottomed out. A film forming finish on the outside can let liquid water into a check or gap, the moisture diffuses through the wood driven by light and heat but is then trapped behind the film, which has become a composting bag around the wood. Water repellant finishes that are more permeable seem to do better on big wood IMO.

Offline Brad_bb

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Re: New member with questions
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2016, 08:37:35 am »
Oak timbers will take many years to truly dry so you don't want a product that will seal them.  Heritage Natural Finishes (formerly Land Ark LLC) is the product of choice these days for timberframes.   Read here what's in it and why.
http://www.heritagenaturalfinishes.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=48
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Offline Gearbox

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Re: New member with questions
« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2016, 08:06:46 pm »
White Pine timbers are going to bleed sap for 3 or 4 years unless you kiln dry them . Ask me how I know . I needed a trim board on my new house . Ran over to the lumber shed and grabbed a 1 x6 and put it up . One knot in that board at chest high ruined a shirt a year for 3-4 years .
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Offline littlewiz88

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Re: New member with questions
« Reply #9 on: December 27, 2016, 02:52:43 pm »
Thanks for all the replies. I had considered linseed oil, but I have seen some mildew form on my parents log house after using it so I am just not sure. Will it let the timbers breathe and continue to dry? It seems like it forms a gummy layer that would hold the moisture in. I have also looked at the Heritage finishes and will take another look at them. I want something that will protect the timbers from the elements while we raise it. The main floor will be oak (posts, girts, etc) with the upper pieces of the bents being made out of pine (queen posts, braces, rafters, etc.) I must be honest, I work with metal for a living so I'm a bit out of my element when it comes to finishing products when it comes to wood. I am really excited to get this project off the ground though, I have had a ball learning about something new.

Offline Don P

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Re: New member with questions
« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2016, 04:39:23 pm »
It will form a permeable water repellant coat. Mildew is usually on raw rather than boiled linseed oil. Raw linseed here does become a black sticky mess.

Offline Brad_bb

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Re: New member with questions
« Reply #11 on: December 28, 2016, 05:01:31 pm »
Raw linseed oil doesn't dry, boiled linseed oil has metallic dryers(it's fine, not harmful).  Heritage is a formula of a number of different things which they tell you about. 

1. I recommend that you pre-finish the timbers before raising.
2. Get the frame protected as quickly as possible.  The best thing is to get the roof sheathing on and the first layer of synthetic roof paper(which really isn't paper these days), like Titanium UDL30 or UDL50 depending where you are.  Pay attention to the installation instructions for warranty purposes.  UDL30 requires a button cap stapler, wheres with UDL50 I think you could use button caps or direct staple.  Direct staple is a lot easier if it doesn't void warranty.  See video


3. The biggest thing you want to protect your timbers from is the SUN.  The sun will do the most damage if left exposed for an extended period- it will start to gray them.   They can tolerate water more as long as they can dry out.  For example if they get water in them and get covered with tarps or plastic that holds the moisture and won't them them air our properly, that's bad.  Same issue when stacking the finished timbers for storage before raising.  Tarp over the top and sides but allow them to breathe.  I build 2x4 frames that go on top of the stacks.  The frame gets covered in UDL30.  You can reuse the frame lumber later for bracing or wall framing.
 

 
 

 
 

 
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Offline TimFromNB

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Re: New member with questions
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2017, 12:11:29 pm »
Thanks for sharing the storage aspect Brad. I will need to keep mine well covered as they might sit for a while before I assemble them. (not original poster)

Offline littlewiz88

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Re: New member with questions
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2017, 04:15:20 pm »
Thanks for all the help, I'm not sure what direction we will go yet as whatever we do will have to fit our budget. Unfortunately everything turns into a giant research project for me, one of the many problems of the internet age. Luckily we are both young and ambitious. Has anyone ever used the rainscreen you can buy in a roll for behind your siding as opposed to using batten boards to create an air space? We are putting a vertical steel board and batten on the exterior of our sips and I am considering using one of these products. Similar to this one: http://www.benjaminobdyke.com/products/home-slicker-plus-typar-rainscreen-6mm. We are also looking at using a metal shingle over our sip roof, can one of these products be used under those? I have searched all over but don't see any mention of putting metal shingles over sips. We had planned on a snap lock metal roof originally with the steel furred up off the sips but I don't see this working with metal shingles without going crazy and adding a layer of sheeting over the  furring strips.

Online Jim_Rogers

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Re: New member with questions
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2017, 05:25:47 pm »
I would contact the sips company and ask their recommendation for the roofing materials installation. You should/could follow their plan so that you don't void your guarantee.

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Offline plantman

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Offline flyingparks

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Re: New member with questions
« Reply #16 on: March 19, 2017, 10:23:45 pm »

3. The biggest thing you want to protect your timbers from is the SUN.  The sun will do the most damage if left exposed for an extended period- it will start to gray them.   They can tolerate water more as long as they can dry out.  For example if they get water in them and get covered with tarps or plastic that holds the moisture and won't them them air our properly, that's bad.  Same issue when stacking the finished timbers for storage before raising.  Tarp over the top and sides but allow them to breathe.  I build 2x4 frames that go on top of the stacks.  The frame gets covered in UDL30.  You can reuse the frame lumber later for bracing or wall framing.

Hey Brad,

So do you stack finished timbers (timbers with their joinery cut) on top of each other or do you sticker those? I see you put your 2x4 frames on top but do you put anything in between the timbers underneath the 2x4 frame? You've probably seen some other posts of mine asking for insight related to storage. Call me paranoid.

Parker

Offline timberwrestler

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Re: New member with questions
« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2017, 03:31:39 pm »
On the metal shingles, you'd need either a lot of strapping (at the shingle exposure) as well as vertical straps underneath; or a cold roof with another layer of sheathing. 

And the Homeslicker would work well--we use it all the time.  It would be a lot more expensive than strapping though.

Offline littlewiz88

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Re: New member with questions
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2017, 12:30:54 pm »
After a lot of question asking and research I've decided we will do a second layer of sheeting on top of the 3/4" furring strips, then our metal shingles on top of that. One of the last things I have questions about (is there ever a last question?) is about brands of SIP sealing tape. I intend to tape the inside joints of the sips for sure even though I keep being told I don't need to by several people. But after enough looking and seeing what could happen with poorly sealed joints I definitely feel strongly about it, cheap insurance in my book. I plan on living in this house for the next 30+ years so I can't afford to take chances. It seems Siga and Pro Clima tapes are the most commonly recommended. After looking around I have found a relatively local company that produces sip tape but I can't find anyone who has used it, the link is
 
http://www.weatherblocsystems.com/Purchase%20Building%20Products-Buy%20Manufacture%20Direct-Online%20Buy%20Direct%20Wholesale/Window%20and%20Door%20Seal%20Tape-Building%20Product%20Store-Online%20Building%20Products-Buy%20Online%20Flashing%20Tape/Buy%20Store%20Flashing%20Tape%20Building%20Products.php.

They definitely talk it up as being good but I tend not to just take a companies word, blind trust in my opinion. So I am wondering if any of you have used this product and would recommend it or not.
Timbers keep flowing in to our shed as they are completed and we are scheduled to set our basement on May 19th (Superior precast walls.) At some point I would like to document it all but until then I will keep asking questions.  ???

Offline ScottCC

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Re: New member with questions
« Reply #19 on: April 25, 2017, 10:08:50 pm »
Just priced a job with sips versus traditional.  If your on a budget but helping stick with spray foam will be cheaper and out perform by a lot of money.  Also, unless metal shingles are the desired look, your money and performance is best with an interlocking standing seam by fabrel.  I felt the metal shingles were not worth the money and vulnerable to misplacement by a novice.
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