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Author Topic: Phase converters/ Electric motors  (Read 1020 times)

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Offline muggs

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Phase converters/ Electric motors
« on: December 10, 2016, 03:07:27 pm »
I am in Camarillo CA. A long ways from most of you. I build phase converters, and large single phase electric motors [ over 10 hp.] Also repair electric motors. Got any motor questions, just ask.    Muggs

Offline starmac

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Re: Phase converters/ Electric motors
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2016, 06:09:47 pm »
Ok, I'll start with what may be an easy one.
Finding a place here with 3 phase is hard and expensive if you do.
How economical is it to run off of a phase converter for things like the older planers and moulders?
Old LT40HD, old log truck, old MM forklift, and several huskies.

Offline muggs

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Re: Phase converters/ Electric motors
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2016, 07:03:13 pm »
You will using the driven motors amperage plus the amperage of the phase converter.
But far better than using an internal combustion engine. Muggs

Offline wolf nemeth

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Re: Phase converters/ Electric motors
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2017, 09:06:22 pm »
Muggs,  i am hoping to  get an older, 20" planer soon.  when I  use a  phase converter to go from single phase (line)  to 3 phase (motor),  does  the  planer motor  lose any power?  If so, how much?
    And, is a rotary phase converter more efficient  than a static converter?    thanks!
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Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Phase converters/ Electric motors
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2017, 05:36:22 pm »
Let me interject a thought here .First I'm not selling them,this is Muggs thread but I suppose I've built 20 of them up to I think 20 HP .Most were  10 HP .They will start up to whatever size HP the converter is and operate up to
3 times with combined motors providing the largest does no exceed the HP of the converter .They run at about 92 percent efficiency .A 10 HP 3 phase motor is around 1.25 amps per HP at 480 volt or 2.5 at 240 volt .So that would be 25 amps more or less running on 240 volt .The converter will only draw about 10 amps providing the third leg of the three phase .on 240 volt There's a few tricks to building them which I won't get into .Like I said this is Muggs deal I just thought I'd throw in some useful info .

To further add  a rotary like these provide true three phase. Those inexpensive "solid state " deals do not .Those are nothing but a start and run capacitor and only produce about 60 percent of the motors power .l

Offline muggs

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Re: Phase converters/ Electric motors
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2017, 02:00:38 pm »
No problem Al Smith. I am grateful for your input. You are not stepping on my toes. Now to answer the question. I have a dyno for electric motors When testing a 5 HP motor run off a 7.5 HP phase converter, I got about 80% of the power out of it. The way to get more power is to oversize the phase converter. I would not use a static converter even though I sell them. Some motors will not start on them. Some end up burning up.   Good luck.     Muggs

Offline wolf nemeth

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Re: Phase converters/ Electric motors
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2017, 06:09:59 pm »
Thanks to both of you, Al  and Muggs,  for the info.  Sounds like rotary is the only way to go.  I am cirrently still  scouring all sorts of internet auction sites  for the elusive planer-in-the-sky.
thanks again
Wolf
If you  don't know where you're going, you'll probably end up somewhere else!

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Phase converters/ Electric motors
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2017, 07:04:54 pm »
Another secret is the balancing capacitors used on some rotaries .Mine for example has 484-484 and 486 volts on the legs which is a pretty good balance .Which I know most people would never consider a 480 volt system but that's what I do for a living .
If you really want to get anal about you can balance the system on the individual motors being driven ,I was just never that concerned about it .

Offline wolf nemeth

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Re: Phase converters/ Electric motors
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2017, 10:48:07 pm »
Big Al,  I'm not  anal, just stupid!   But I know  my limitations, and   they don't  go past  240 volts....
If you  don't know where you're going, you'll probably end up somewhere else!

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Phase converters/ Electric motors
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2017, 06:24:51 am »
 :D I understand and it's cool .On the other end of the scale is where I'm at .In my shop which is supplied with 200 amps,240 volt  I have both 480 and 240 three phase ,208/365 European,265 single from an auto transformer which will fire 277 volt for lighting  single phase .
I often joke that if I had enough transformers I could build a bolt of lightning but that's just bravado .
However there are tricks you can't find in any publication or the internet .For example rewiring an open delta transformer welder to run on single phase on DC voltage with almost no ripple .Simple,double PI filter .That old Westinghouse 400 amp is smooth as silk with an output of probably a tad over 200 amps as it is now .--I'm a bit of a dumpster diver myself .Cheap is good,free is better .  8)

Offline petefrom bearswamp

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Re: Phase converters/ Electric motors
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2017, 08:09:04 am »
rotary here for my 10 HP planer.
10 years now and not a whimper.
Guy I bought it from  even sent me spare capacitors
LT40SHDD51
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Kubota 900 RTV
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Offline Grizzly

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Re: Phase converters/ Electric motors
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2017, 12:29:58 pm »
So is a VFD what you are calling a static converter? That's what's being recommended to me instead of the rotaries. I want to change my edger to a 3phase electric and match a 30hp diesel as far as power goes. Currently I have 240V 200amp service to the farm.

I also have an electric motor that indicates 10KW. No hp rating just that. What hp is it capable of?
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Offline muggs

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Re: Phase converters/ Electric motors
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2017, 08:59:48 pm »
Your motor should be somewhere between 10 and 15 HP. No a VFD is not a static converter. It is a very good way to get 3 phase and variable speed.    Muggs

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Phase converters/ Electric motors
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2017, 04:20:19 am »
KW rating is generally a more accurate method of determining power than HP .Because just like internal combustion engines,electric  motor manufacturers  often some what embellish ratings .In other words they just plain lie .
Wattage to HP is generally taken as 746 watts per HP at 100 percent power factor .Variations occur when dealing with input power such as 208 ,220,230,240 volt for example depending on what area of the country or world for that matter .Some Japanese motor for example are designed for 200 volt .
When they use terms like "develops" a certain power rating than give true power what they are actually saying is they can run in an over loaded  condition for a short period of time .It's just like saying a certain log splitter is 35 ton rated from a 3000 PSI system with a 4" cylinder .Yeah maybe for 2 seconds until the relief lifts . :D

Offline Al_Smith

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Re: Phase converters/ Electric motors
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2017, 04:29:51 am »
While babbling on at 4:20 AM before the chickens get up an example of what I just wrote .I adapted a so called 5 HP electric motor to a little tiny splitter that originally had a 5 HP gasoline  engine .It worked really good but the actual HP rating using 240 volts and the running amperage was only 2.8 HP .The good thing about the little cheaply made  "imported " motor over the gasoline engine was it always started and never ran out of fuel unless I didn't pay the electric bill which I've never not paid .

Offline Grizzly

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Re: Phase converters/ Electric motors
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2017, 11:59:23 am »
So do I have this right? At 240v x 200amp I have access to 48kw? So if I shut down the house/shop/barn I could run 30-40kw at the mill? Or how efficient does that power transfer work? My electrician is trying to educate me as well and between the 3 of ya it might work!
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Offline muggs

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Re: Phase converters/ Electric motors
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2017, 06:51:56 pm »
efficiency does come into play when dealing with motors. But for the most part you have it right.   Muggs

Offline Grizzly

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Re: Phase converters/ Electric motors
« Reply #17 on: September 20, 2017, 08:12:47 pm »
Thanks Muggs.
2011 - Logmaster LM-2 / Chinese wheel loader
Jonsered saws
   2149 - 111S - 90?
Cooks Cat Claw & Dual tooth setter
2000 Miners 3-31 Board Edger