iDRY Vacuum Kilns

Sponsors:

Thinking about selling ms441 and buying new 372xp

Started by Verticaltrx, December 10, 2016, 12:03:07 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Verticaltrx

I'm not sure why but I've never really been a big fan of my ms441 Stihl like I have my other saws. I have a 024, 041AV, ms260 pro and ms361 which are all excellent saws. The ms441 just seems weak for as heavy as it is, with a 25" bar you have to be pretty light on it to keep it from bogging down, even in soft wood. I honestly think my old 041 has more torque than this new 441 despite being a smaller saw. I'm generally a Stihl man, but I do have some Huskys as well which I also like.

With all that being said I'm considering buying a new 372xp to replace the ms441. Are the new 372's as good as they always have been? Should it perform any better than my 441? Am I asking too much of any 70cc saw to run a 24-25" bar with full comp chain? Thanks for any input.
Wood-Mizer LT15G19

khntr85

No sir, something isn't right.... it should pull a 25" like your ms361 pulls a 20"...

Verticaltrx

Quote from: khntr85 on December 10, 2016, 12:24:22 PM
No sir, something isn't right.... it should pull a 25" like your ms361 pulls a 20"...

Yeah, that's what I would think too, but it has never been the case ever since new. I've tried retuning it and no better. I am running the larger/double dogs on it and a wide-nose bar, but I wouldn't think that should have anything to do with it.

It does cut fast, probably my fastest saw bucking 20" wood, but you have to be very light on the handle. Where it becomes frustrating is felling and stumping, where sometimes you have to dig the dogs in a little. More than a little pressure or tension in the wood and it bogs down and the chain stops. The 041 will pull a 20" bar buried to the hilt in oak, this 441 wont pull a 25" bar buried in soft wood. Maybe I just got a dud?
Wood-Mizer LT15G19

Al_Smith

I'm not a fan of them either but evidently something is amiss .I've ran them and if in good tune they have plenty of power .I can't give you any pointers because I don't own one and have never worked on one only to screw a loose plug back in one the owner thought had a hole burned in the piston---long story on that.

DelawhereJoe

I was very unimpressed on the first tank of fuel on my 362 c-m my old 041 would out cut it easy but now with a few gallons of fuel through it, I'm very happy with it.
WD-40, DUCT TAPE, 024, 026, 362c-m, 041, homelite xl, JD 2510

Verticaltrx

Maybe I should just buy a 372xp to have in addition to my other saws ;D

From what I gather they are a bit of a legend, and my guess is they won't be around for too much longer as everything seems to be going electronic controlled carbs, etc.


As for the ms 441, I bought it new in 2010 so it should be well enough broken in by now, lol. I don't use it a lot however, it probably only has 200hrs on it. I'll go over everything on it again, it has good compression, clean filters, and tuned to just get a tiny bit of 'burble' at WOT. Really though it's always seemed weak ever since new. The first tree I felled with it was a 30" white pine, and my initial impression was 'wow this bogs down a lot easier than I'd have thought a 70cc saw should'.
Wood-Mizer LT15G19

Al_Smith

I'm certainly no expert on them by any means .My impression the few times I've ran one is it has to be ran long  enough to heat up the engine before it gets to cutting good .

I can only speculate that possibly the air intake might be messed up .That low emission design uses a fresh air charge though a slot in the piston for the first portion of the blow down cycle .It might be such a thing it's getting too much or not enough .

The owner of that saw owns a tree service and that saw was a replacement for a Stihl 440 that was stolen .He liked the 441 better,I didn't which is not to say they are a bad saw more a matter of preference .

gspren

  I'm no chainsaw mechanic but just a thought, could dropping a tooth on the drive maybe give you the torque you seek? Wouldn't cost much to try.
Stihl 041, 044 & 261, Kubota 400 RTV, Kubota BX 2670, Ferris Zero turn

weimedog

Quote from: Verticaltrx on December 10, 2016, 07:24:16 PM
Maybe I should just buy a 372xp to have in addition to my other saws ;D

From what I gather they are a bit of a legend, and my guess is they won't be around for too much longer as everything seems to be going electronic controlled carbs, etc.



The origional editions are a bit of a legend...not sure the X-Torqs are, and if they are for the right reasons. They are heavier than the OE's, really don't make more power. They do "clean up" nice if you are into saw mechanics.. Why not for the same money consider a 576?
Husqvarna 365sp/372xpw Blend, Jonsered 2171 51.4mm XPW build,562xp HTSS, 560 HTSS, 272XP, 61/272XP, 555, 257, 242, 238, Homelite S-XL 925, XP-1020A, Super XL (Dad's saw); Jonsered 2094, Three 920's, CS-2172, Solo 603; 3 Huztl MS660's (2 54mm and 1 56mm)

Chop Shop

Fatten it up.   It should pull great.   Even with a 28" bar.

Fatten it up.


Use 50/1 stihl oil and supreme 92 oct to.

Verticaltrx

Quote from: weimedog on December 12, 2016, 01:16:30 AM
The origional editions are a bit of a legend...not sure the X-Torqs are, and if they are for the right reasons. They are heavier than the OE's, really don't make more power. They do "clean up" nice if you are into saw mechanics.. Why not for the same money consider a 576?

Are the 576's a decent saw? I really am not up to date on the Husqvarna offerings these days. I also noticed the 365, which has the same torque output, same cc, mostly the same features as the 372xp (albeit less hp), but for $150 less, which might be an option as well.

Quote from: Chop Shop on December 12, 2016, 02:32:15 AM
Fatten it up.   It should pull great.   Even with a 28" bar.

Fatten it up.


Use 50/1 stihl oil and supreme 92 oct to.

Yup, I use 93 octane ethanol free and stihl HP ultra mix at 50:1.

I did trim the tabs off the limiter caps and richened it up just a touch from factory settings. Can't say it did much for power, but hopefully added some longevity. Maybe I'd a touch too rich now? I need to check the plug and maybe put a tach to it and see where I'm at. That said, no matter the tune something just hasn't seemed quite right about it for a 70cc saw. I also need to go cut with it again and see just what rpm its stalling the chain at, I guess it could possibly be a clutch issue.






Wood-Mizer LT15G19

HolmenTree

Quote from: Verticaltrx on December 12, 2016, 08:59:27 AM
I also need to go cut with it again and see just what rpm its stalling the chain at, I guess it could possibly be a clutch issue.
Is the chain turning when the saw idles. Does the engine still rev when chain stalls?
If the answer is no, then it's not the clutch.

My advice is remove the dogs and put a brand new chain on the saw, then give it a try again and see if you still have the stalling problem.

I have a hunch your chain is the problem, main issue is you may have the depth gauges too low.

Also a stock 441 with 25" b/c should never run a drive sprocket larger then 7 tooth in 3/8 pitch.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Stihlwaters

I have the 441 and I like it alot,1st and easiest thing to do is pull the muffler screen,you will see a big diff.Later on if u like u can open the exhaust hole up a bit but just pulling the screen will help immensely.

brettl

I have a 441 with a 30" bar. Bought it roughly 10 years ago and have only used it on 2 outings. I cut up 3 110 year old pines. Even with the bar buried there was no bog, not even close. I wasn't surprised. The other outing was a giant Osage/hedge tree. It was about 30" around. After felling it, I just laid the bar on the log and the weight of the bar and the sharpness of the chain cut through it nice and steady. I could have applied reasonable pressure without bogging but it was too much fun watching the saw work(which is as it should be).

Something just ain't right. Yours should be cutting like a hot knife through butter. In softwood, it would take a LOT of pressure to bog your saw. I wouldn't give up on it. My chains were factory fresh Stihl. Have you cut with new chain recently?

Verticaltrx

Thanks for everyone's input.

I'm using the stock 7 tooth sprocket, and I've run many new out of the box stihl chains on this saw, 33RSC84. I do sharpen my own chains, but I'm pretty conservative on lowering the rakers, I never take them below the level the little Stihl gauge shows. The chain does not turn at idle, and the motor does bog some when the chain stalls.

I talked to numerous dealers this morning and almost all of them said a 25" bar is too much for a 441 to handle with any authority in hardwood. Some suggest skip or half skip chain for my combo, but they said most of the loggers around here are running 20" bars on their 441's. One dealer was especially helpful and I think he cured my problem....he sold me a new MS461! For $865 I just couldn't say no, that's only $100 more than I paid for the 441 almost 7yrs ago.  8)
Wood-Mizer LT15G19

sandsawmill14

congrat on the new saw i like the 461 we have a t work :)

Quote from: Chop Shop on December 12, 2016, 02:32:15 AM
Fatten it up.   It should pull great.   Even with a 28" bar.

Fatten it up.


Use 50/1 stihl oil and supreme 92 oct to.

x2 i run a 28" on mine alot of the time and its ok and does really good with the 25" and i am splitting oversized logs in half so they will fit on the mill even with the 28" on its cutting full length all the time    BUT check your clutch the doggone oiler will stop up and flood the the clutch and make it slip mine has done that 4-5 times in the last couple years :)   
  and i also run really rich  most would say its flooding ;D :D  but it helps with the heat in the 8' to 10' long cuts ripping logs :)
hudson 228, lucky knuckleboom,stihl 038 064 441 magnum

brettl

Congrats on the new saw!

I knew when I bought my 441 that 30" wasn't practical. There's no way I could bury it in hardwood like I did on the pine. But, I was replacing stolen saws so I didn't mind spending insurance companies money on a larger bar, even though I don't need it. I wouldn't be bashful about putting a 25 on it though. Its sat like new all these years because I found a nice used 440. I use a 23 or 24 inch bar on it, don't remember off the top of my head.

khntr85

  That's funny I was goin to say get a 461!!!!

   Please run 10-15 tanks threw it and let us know what you think... with a 25" bar you won't have any problem in USA hardwoods!!!

Verticaltrx

Quote from: khntr85 on December 16, 2016, 06:12:55 PM
  That's funny I was goin to say get a 461!!!!

   Please run 10-15 tanks threw it and let us know what you think... with a 25" bar you won't have any problem in USA hardwoods!!!

Will do. Right now it has a 20" bar on it and it seems really light, nimble and balanced, I might just run it like this for a while. That was another gripe about the 441, it just didn't have a good 'feel' to it like my other Stihl saws, it seemed big and bulbous.  Honestly there are very few trees this side of the Mississippi that you can't fell with a 20" bar. However, I am also thinking about getting a 28" Rollomatic ES Light bar for the occasional big jobs. I am bummed you can't get the ES bars with the 13-tooth wide nose sprocket anymore, probably the darn lawyers fault.
Wood-Mizer LT15G19

Trooney

Congrats on your new saw. Haven't run a 461 or 441 for that matter, but I have run alot of 044/440's and 460's. Rpm is not always the answer. From my experience it's the tune of the saw that makes the difference in the cut. You can have it maxed out to factory specs in rpm and it doesn't cut worth a crap in the cut. Example: my 262's have a max rpm of 13.5k and 4 stroke lightly at about 13.2 - 13.3k. If I cut with them at that rpm they really wont cut good and tend to bog when leaned on moderately. If I richen it up to 12.8k it 4strokes heavily out of the cut but once in the cut it clears up and cuts like a demon even leaned on heavily. My 044's are at different rpms because they all are different. The only reason I put a tach on my saws is to find out which rpm they are running the best at. My advise is to play with it a little bit and find out where it likes it in the cut and if leaned on won't bog on you. Then tach it . Good luck and have fun with your new saw.

Al_Smith

Far be it for me to tell a person what size bar to run.I however prefer a 20" on a 70 cc saw ,24" would be 80 cc and 100 would be 32 or  36

Now I've seen 70's that would pull up to 32 or even 36 but they were not stock saws which would not be the context of this thread .

DelawhereJoe

I personally wouldn't say a 25" bar is to much for a 440 cutting oak, it cuts much faster then a 362 c-m with a 25". The 440 I have run cut faster in dry white oak with a 25" bar fully buried then a 362 c-m with a 20" bar in the same wood. I've never run a 441 but it can't be that far from a 440.
WD-40, DUCT TAPE, 024, 026, 362c-m, 041, homelite xl, JD 2510

SawTroll

Quote from: weimedog on December 12, 2016, 01:16:30 AM

The origional editions are a bit of a legend...not sure the X-Torqs are, and if they are for the right reasons. They are heavier than the OE's, really don't make more power. They do "clean up" nice if you are into saw mechanics.. Why not for the same money consider a 576?

You are of course right, it is the original 372xp that is the legend, not the X-Torq.
Information collector.

HolmenTree

The Husqvarna 576XP AutoTune is a very impressive saw in my opinion. With it you are now getting into MS461 capabilities.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Thank You Sponsors!