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Author Topic: 30X40 Barn Workshop/Garage  (Read 2019 times)

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Offline Simon3380

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30X40 Barn Workshop/Garage
« on: December 04, 2016, 10:59:34 pm »
Hello all. Like many here I've lurched in the background for a while before actually posting anything. Now the the weather has finally turned I've finally got some time to work on my plans. I'm pretty flexible on a lot of it but a couple things I would really like to have two bays on the bottom for two separate garage stalls, ten foot ceiling in the garage area, and a 20' wide (or close to it) open area without post upstairs for my woodworking shop. I've started a the design and before I get to far along I wanted to get some feedback. I'm drawing it in Fusion 360 so I can do the load analysis right in the same model. Hopefully people can get to it without too much trouble as it seems the cad package of choice seems to be sketchup. Here it the public access link...

http://a360.co/2gS4R43

 By the way the material is Red Oak for now that I'll be sawing myself so I can make virtually any size I need under 30"x30"x21'.

I don't have all the joints in yet or braces because I'm slowly working through the major components first. Just wanted to get this out there to start getting some feedback on the good, bad, and ugly. Thanks in advance for any insight.

I've also attached a quick rendering in case you can't get the link to work.

 

 

Regards,

Simon



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Offline DDW_OR

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Re: 30X40 Barn Workshop/Garage
« Reply #1 on: December 05, 2016, 12:33:02 am »
If you have a tight area for the barn then your idea is good

  

but if you have room for a little more width then having the wood working shop on the Ground floor will save a LOT of hauling up and down the stairs, or having to lift heavy things throught a "hay loft door"


 
make the walls 12 foot and then you should be able to add 16 foot wide lean-too's to areas E & F to store lumber and equipment
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Offline DDW_OR

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Re: 30X40 Barn Workshop/Garage
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2016, 12:40:32 am »
 or put the two bays on one side

  
or combine the two bays

 
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Offline Simon3380

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Re: 30X40 Barn Workshop/Garage
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2016, 06:39:50 pm »
or put the two bays on one side
 
or combine the two bays


Thanks for the suggestions DDW_OR. Unfortunately with the way my lot is layed out 30 feet is about the max width I can go without taking out too many trees and hauling in a lot of fill. I could potentially go longer than 40 feet but that is going to come down to budget.
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Offline DDW_OR

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Re: 30X40 Barn Workshop/Garage
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2016, 12:12:36 am »
in that case maybe do what i did, put in a 30x64 polebarn and use the back to put in a 30x16 wood shop.
 

 
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Offline Simon3380

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Re: 30X40 Barn Workshop/Garage
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2016, 01:20:02 am »
That's a lot of concrete and a lot of fill. This is already $1600 in fill and that was the shallow end so to speak. The wood pile is my lot line with the neighbors house being the green one. I'm not sure I would come out ahead if I stuck that much into the into just the ground prep. I can get logs for free or next to nothing but I would still have to pay to get the boards dried. Especially if using for flooring for the upstairs. Guess I was going by the old rule of thumb that it cheaper to build up than out.

I was also holding out hope for making a drive though garage with the circle driveway connecting to the other one by my existing garage. I would still need some fill for the ramp off the back but that I might be able to "rework" the hill a little to get that.


 

  

 
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Offline DDW_OR

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Re: 30X40 Barn Workshop/Garage
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2016, 02:35:09 am »
thanks for the great photos.
I now understand after seeing the size of your place
how is the fishing? going to put in a smoker?

my barn floor is 3/4 gravel, no concrete on 166 acres. i do not have a vapor barrier under the gravel, tooooo late now. should have a double layer of 6 mm plastic.
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Offline Simon3380

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Re: 30X40 Barn Workshop/Garage
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2016, 10:49:43 pm »
Yeah, I'd say it'g going to be a snug fit not quite tight on my little lot. I hear the walleye fishing is pretty good. We just moved here last spring and I'd stayed too busy around the yard and house to get much fishing in. I don't see a smoker in the future but I would like to put a timber frame upper deck/gazebo on our little so called boat house.
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Offline DDW_OR

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Re: 30X40 Barn Workshop/Garage
« Reply #8 on: December 08, 2016, 03:10:20 am »
walleye fishing is pretty good =YES YES
upper deck/gazebo on our little so called boat house = YES, and a BBQ to cook the Walleye.
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Offline timberwrestler

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Re: 30X40 Barn Workshop/Garage
« Reply #9 on: December 08, 2016, 10:36:38 am »
I don't think that's going to be very happy, structurally.  There's a lot of load on those purlin posts.  Do you have enough room to put a post right underneath?  It may give you the perfect garage door opening.  I think what you drew could be done, but I'd have an engineer look at it.

Offline Simon3380

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Re: 30X40 Barn Workshop/Garage
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2016, 01:45:03 am »
I don't think that's going to be very happy, structurally.  There's a lot of load on those purlin posts.  Do you have enough room to put a post right underneath?  It may give you the perfect garage door opening.  I think what you drew could be done, but I'd have an engineer look at it.

That is a concern I have been contemplating. Coincidentally I am an engineer, just not practiced in this field. I do have a sound understanding of mechanics of materials and statics/dynamics. I have run several FEAs on a couple slightly different iterations of the frame and currently am getting the max deflection of the frame in the bent girt as one would expect. The magnitude is about 3/16th inch for the 15ft span so I believe that keeps me well within the code requirements even though this structure is not technically required to be in my municipality as it is not a dwelling. Obviously I want to build a sound safe structure though. Some of my assumptions for the FEA weren't quite accurate but the best I could do with the early state of the frame design and given the orthotropic nature of wood. I had to basically create two different isotropic materials (one with longitudinal properties and one with radial properties) based on the orientation of the timber and loading in the the structure. I did include the two outside braces in the study as they are a critical part of the load transfer in this design, but will not be including the rest of them except for the wind loading study at a horizontal 20 lbs/f^2 as local code states. Just as fyi, the other live loading values that I'm using based on code is 40 lbs/f^s for snow load and 40 lbs/f^2 for floors. I have to double check but I used either 10 or 15 lbs/ft^2 for dead load.

I am hoping to get a higher fidelity study once the joints are detailed and beams are notched. But I certainly valve the "gut check" of those that are more experienced in the trade.

The reason I'd like to to not have a post under the purlin post is because I really want to make full use of the 2 bays in the garage area as I'd like to store my sawmill on one half and a future boat and maybe skidsteer/tractor in the other. However if it's not going to work then perhaps I may have to abandon the timber frame approach and go with manufactured materials.

Here is a link a similar layout/function that I'm trying to accomplish.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=75006&page=2

Like I previously mentioned, I'm planning on having an open workshop on the top so I can handle long boards and plywood on the tablesaw. I would also not have a bathroom or running water as that would move it into the dwelling category and my zoning wouldn't fly with that.

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Offline Simon3380

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Re: 30X40 Barn Workshop/Garage
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2016, 11:44:05 pm »
Here is my first attempt at detailed joints. I used a lot of spline joints mostly to minimize removing post material on post. Most of them are pretty much what is detailed in Ted Benson's book "The Timber-Frame Home."

I would really value some feedback on the joints, especially the rafters.

The same link will work from above if you want to look at it closer but I'll repaste it here.

http://a360.co/2gS4R43

The explode model and section analysis buttons work great to get a close look at the interaction between components.

 

 
LT40 Super 51 hp Cat, John Deere 310 TLB, Homemade Log Arch, Husky 350 Chainsaw, and a bunch of woodworking equipment...

Offline Brian_Weekley

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Re: 30X40 Barn Workshop/Garage
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2016, 06:42:27 am »
e aho laula

Offline Simon3380

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Re: 30X40 Barn Workshop/Garage
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2016, 08:24:50 pm »
Thanks Brian. I did take a look at those. Every little bit helps.

LT40 Super 51 hp Cat, John Deere 310 TLB, Homemade Log Arch, Husky 350 Chainsaw, and a bunch of woodworking equipment...

Offline Simon3380

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Re: 30X40 Barn Workshop/Garage
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2016, 02:38:17 pm »
I think I'm done with rev one of the structural members. 

As always if you want to take a closer look it's available here:

http://a360.co/2gS4R43
 

 
LT40 Super 51 hp Cat, John Deere 310 TLB, Homemade Log Arch, Husky 350 Chainsaw, and a bunch of woodworking equipment...