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life expectancy of repaceable tips on chainsaw bars

Started by WV_hillbilly, December 01, 2016, 06:31:58 PM

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HolmenTree

Yep you crawl back down into your cozy submarine up there in the artic circle, before a polar bear gets you Al. :D :D
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

chevytaHOE5674

You two are tougher than me, I get cold in the processor with the heat cranked up at -40°.  :D

HolmenTree

Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Al_Smith

The coldest I've ever seen in Ohio was 23 below and as luck would have it I was out in it,in a refinery  .Didn't much care for that .It's been years since it's been even 10 below and I don't miss it a bit .

It was around 10 below when I had the bright idea to noodling some late cut white oak rounds,some 4 feet in diameter one of the trimmers dropped off .I attacked it with every thing I had including a McCulloch 125 and could hardly make a dent in it ,frozen solid .Could not even drive a wedge in it with a 10 pound sledge hammer .Never before or since have I experienced frozen wood .Gave up.went back in the house

Oh BTW I still have my Arctic cold weather gear when I was on the ice cap .Even more amazing I can still fit into them.They are hanging in my garage .In 1969 I was 21 years old and weighed 212 pounds and now just short of 69  I still weigh 210 so the beer didn't get me too badly .I do however have nearly 350 bucks worth of new Carhart Arctics I carry in the car during winter .You can freeze to death if you ever get caught out in those temps ,even 10 below .

HolmenTree

Al, here's a good story about chainsaws on the 60°below arctic ice cap from 1967. :)


  
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

ehp

Al, you worked for my father and if it was -40 outside you better have your back side in the bush or you were fired , there is lots of stuff people do not know about our family and what we did, we also ran 2 other logging crews in the USA for close to 20 years and 1 crew in Central America with the big snakes cutting those big hardwood in the jungle , I was not around that much as I was up here running stuff and I did not like down there as everything was either going to bite you , kill you , eat you , not my place to have fun , where I am now the only way it could get even close to 40 below is by wind chill , just to close to Lake Erie

HolmenTree

The majority of the oil pipe line protesters at Standing Rock, North Dakota can't get out of there fast enough at the moment.
Highways were closed due to a prairie blizzard dumping 2 feet of snow on them.
Collapsing tents and burning up from  fires used to keep  warm.

And it's only 5 F (-15 C).
It's only going to get alot colder when the snow stops and the skies clear.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Al_Smith

Well after experiencing frozen wood but once I can see how it would play havoc on chains etc .I can also see how a downed tree could freeze before it was cut into logs if it lays long enough .What I can't understand is how in the world could a live standing northern tree freeze ?

Do those trees circulate the sap like a goose does blood  to prevent damage?  I would think a frozen tree would die .Of course I realize they aren't palm trees or live oaks because we don't have them either here in the big corn field .

snowstorm

Quote from: HolmenTree on December 07, 2016, 10:59:49 AM
Al, here's a good story about chainsaws on the 60°below arctic ice cap from 1967. :)


 
would that be ralph plaisted? he and his pals rode there ski doo's to the north pole. i remember reading the book    to the top of the world     they didnt reach the pole on there first attempt. so they went back a year or two later. they made it that time. they brought only one of there ski doos and that was in the snowmobile museum in valcort quebec.   

Al_Smith

I suppose you could get a chainsaw started at 40 below,never tried it myself .I'd well imagine you's probably have to thin the bar oil with something to make it flow that cold .I've used automatic transmission fluid before at 10 below but quite frankly it was very seldom even when it got that cold that I did any cutting .I will say this in that cold dry  air they do run good .Any more I'll tell ya Florida for a couple of months in winter is looking better all the time .

One of these days I'll just go to work,walk down to hourly personal and say I'm going on 30 days vacation,get my pension started .Go home pack my stuff call that 5 foot 2 blond and say,hon,we're out of here .Snow and cold lost it's appeal for me many years ago .

ehp

Al, in the winter time a tree is pretty much dead and believe me it freezes , main thing is the water that was in the tree turns to ice inside the grain of the tree , some types of trees are far worse than other in the cold as well , as far as bar oil goes you just go buy it , they make bar oil for that cold of weather , its super thin and no good at say freezing , its pretty much water at that point . Chainsaws run good at -40 you just need to set the carb for that temp and run good high test gas which we always use any ways and 99% of the guys run XPG or Arctic saws . Cutting in that cold is not as bad as you think , you cut everyday so you get use to it but one thing you learn is watch out for getting hit in the face with even little sticks as you would think you got hit with a baseball bat , your skin sure stings a lot more in the cold

barton174

Screw that. I was outside working on my truck in the parking lot at work (in a windy field) one day at -17F (stuff always breaks on the coldest day in 5 years), and that was enough for me. Though, when it's that cold, it's dry enough that it doesn't feel much worse than 0F, as long as you're not exposing too much skin. Of course, I was replacing a throttle body and sensors and stuff, so couldn't really wear gloves. Work a minute or two, warm hands up, repeat.

Mike
Jonsered 490 - Stock
Echo CS-330MX4 - Mufmod + tuned
Husky 371XP - '99 model, Ported + Mufmod + tuned
Husky 550XP - Stock
Jonsered 2166 - "farmer jones"
Husky 365XT - "farmer Jones"
Husky 555 - Stock for now

HolmenTree

Working  as a hand faller in 30-40 below is totally opposite then doing almost anything else for work in that kind of cold. Just like the moose and deer to stay warm you have to keep moving in the bush.

You can dress for the cold and be very comfortable but you can't dress comfortably for high heat.
Winter logging clothes I wore were heavy Stanfields wool long john under wear .
Wool cutter pants with kevlar pads held up by suspenders (yeah I know that's a girlie joke to you blokes down under :D).
Wool bush jacket covered by a nylon covered insulated vest .Goose down is the warmest but fibre fill is better as a slight rip in the vest will lose all  your feathers. Plus the fiber fill stays drier from body heat condensation.

Hard hat wool liner that covers the ears and back of the neck. Ear muffs won't seal so you have to wear ear plugs.
Helmet screen only as glasses fog up. Fallers with poor eye sight and need glasses can't hold a job in these conditions.

Steel toe bush pac boots with rubber bottom leather uppers with heavy felt liners. Wool socks.
Leather mittens with trigger finger on right hand mitt with matching wool liners keep you dry and toasty.

Saws need their rewind housing grills covered .about 3/4 up with duct tape to cut down on the cold air intake plus ingestion of fluffy snow which goes straight to the carb (air injection doesn't seperate that).Husqvarna supplies a winter preheater kit that blocks the air injection on some of their models.
Warm air circulation window in top cover divider has to be open to get cylinder heat back to the carb.
Heated carbs which are easily available in the cold climate market like Canada keeps them ice free.

The old Huskies/Jonsereds with the solid carb stud mount brought enough heat to the carb from the cylinder  to help keep them ice free.

Bar oil like winter grade that I used was like about 5W motor oil thickness. But even that will get pretty thick at 40 below. But no problem as the oil tank on the saw is always warmed up from the crankcase when the saw is working.

But sometimes  first thing in the morning if the saw is left outside you may have to warm it up against the skidder's exhaust pipe outlet with the skidder engine at fast idle.
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

sawguy21

I have had enough of working in those temperatures. It's bad enough when the air is still, a breeze makes life absolutely miserable. The guys I got a laugh out of perched their saws on the snow bank next to the fire. ;D
old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm

Al_Smith

Oh believe me I've spent my time outside in winter weather .I worked construction as an IBEW electrician for 20 years before I got the job I do now .It wasn't 30-40 below but it was cold enough .10-15 below 100 foot up on a vessel with a 10 MPH wind in a refinery will freeze the business off a brass monkey .The novelty of cold weather and snow butt deep to a tall Indian wore off years ago for me --but ya gotta do what ya gotta do at times .---I get it  :)

HolmenTree

Those by gone days logging in the chilly wilderness are all but distant fond memories for me now.
I can still smell the suppers in the camp cook house. 
Our head cook Inga Reimer put on some amazing meals that tasted so good after working all day in the cold air.

Only logging going on now a days around here is a contractor's processor working day and night.

But I do get a little taste of winter (kind of logging) when I last widened a powerline grid corridor.  ;D
A few years back in -30 below.

Short bar on a 372XP. Still have that bar in use today with the original sprocket nose still working fine.


 
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

moodnacreek

  Under normal conditions they outlast the bar I just burned up my first one on a husky that stopped oiling in a big log. [ I've had nothing but trouble with oilers on husky's]                           

Kbeitz

I'll take the hottest day before I put any wool under wear on...
Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

HolmenTree

Quote from: Kbeitz on March 19, 2017, 02:39:12 AM
I'll take the hottest day before I put any wool under wear on...
In cold weather I can work harder and cut twice as much wood then I can on a hot day.
I can tell stories of  high production workers like miners and timber fallers in the PNW.
They don't even work in freezing temperatures and heavy wool is their choice.

But then I do understand some people have tender sensitive skin and can't endure having wool on them. :D ;D
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

Kbeitz

Collector and builder of many things.
Love machine shop work
and Wood work shop work
And now a saw mill work

petefrom bearswamp

seems like this thread has deteriorated from the subject to war stories about cold weather.
Kubota 8540 tractor, FEL bucket and forks, Farmi winch
Kubota 900 RTV
Polaris 570 Sportsman ATV
3 Huskies 1 gas Echo 1 cordless Echo vintage Homelite super xl12
57 acres of woodland

HolmenTree

Quote from: petefrom bearswamp on March 20, 2017, 08:12:06 AM
seems like this thread has deteriorated from the subject to war stories about cold weather.
Pete we'll get this replaceable chainsaw bar tip thread back on track. Hehe :D

Here's a real war story about which company sold the first replaceable  sprocket nose bar.
1971 Windsor introduced  the first replaceable sprocket nose bar and it is a good design still sold today with only a change in the joint mount.

Swedish company Sandvik claims they made the first sprocket nose bar, which they did but the tip was solidly built into a one piece laminated bar. Not a replaceable sprocket tip that Windsor clearly advertised. Sandvik introduced their replaceable tip over 10 years later but their bar body was still laminated not offering good bar maintenance from bar rail spreading.

By 1988-89 Sandvik successfully sued Windsor for their claims of being the pioneer of sprocket nose design enabling them to buy out Windsor. The company then was named Sandvik Windsor.

I don't to this day fully understand how it was possible Sandvik won the case. But I do know Windsor did loose alot of sales and revenue in the mid to late 1980's when Oregon took over a good number of Windsor's contracts. One most notable to me was in Canada Stihl switched from Windsor suppling their bar to Oregon.
Import laws at the time was Stihl could only sell their saws in Canada with a Canadian made product on it. Stihl supplied their Swiss made chain with their powerheads mounted on a grey painted with Stihl logo Canadian made Windsor bar. Then around 1987 Stihl switched ovet to a Canadian made Oregon bar. Stihl was allowed to sell their 25" and over German bars in Canada. But the majority of bar sales in Canada was under 25". I believe other saw companies did the same and switched to Oregon bars also.

So by the time the late1980's rolled along Windsor went from enjoying suppling 80% of the chainsaw manufacturers in North America and Europe with guide bars, to decreased revenue which enabled Sandvik to successfully battle them in court and then taking the company over.

This is my opinion even though I don't know the whole story.
Here's some old ads from the 1970's how these 2 companies tried to out duel each other.


  

  

 


  

  

 
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

HolmenTree

Sandvik introduces their replaceable sprocket nose bar in this 1983 ad
.
2nd ad is from 1989 when Sandvik takes over Windsor ending a dynasty.

Last 2 pics shows pioneering times for Windsor Machine Co. in 1971.



  

 


  

 
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

HolmenTree

Windsor also made sawchain from 1/4" to 2 1/4" pitch.
From summer of 1973.


 
Making a living with a saw since age 16.

thecfarm

HolmenTree,got any pictures of the beast that run that chain.  :o
Model 6020-20hp Manual Thomas bandsaw,TC40A 4wd 40 hp New Holland tractor, 450 Norse Winch, Heatmor 400 OWB,YCC 1978-79

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