Selling Logs

[Rob30]

I am first and formost a farmer, and have used my property for farming. That being said we have about 150 acres of mixed forest. Primarliy red, white pine, Spruce, Ash, Poplar, White birch and maple. I have heard a variety of numbers when looking into pricing for the logs. For some reason, unlike farming, this industry does not have place to easily check current prices. Can anyone steer me in the right direction here? I simply want to know what I should expect per load, what species is best harvested and which should stay standing for now. I am looking at clearing my property lines for some fencing, as well as some areas for more pasture. I will also be thinning out some of the trees. I will be felling the trees, delimbing and dragging them out to a landing. 

[Rob30]

I am still in need of some answers here. I have had a couple people contact me about log prices, however veneer maple see,s to be the only thing they want right now. That is going for about $500/thousand board feet. About 5000-7000 board feet per truck. However I think trucking charges come off that price.
The problem is I prefer not to cut too much of my maple, especially the large nice stuff. I am more interested in cutting and selling the soft wood if there is any money in it. As well as some poplar. We have alot of large red and white pine as well as spruce. I will be cutting some maple and birch, but mostly firewood quality. As well as some white ash, we have an ash borer problem around here.
So if anyone has an idea on soft wood prices in Ontario that would be great.   

[schmalts]

500 for maple veneer?  That seems low. I would Google plywood manufacturers in your area if there is any. At least a place to start, that's who buys it in my area.

[GAB]

The maple is the last thing I would be cutting as it can be an annual cash crop.
In my area there are many looking to purchase maple sap.
Gerald

[Plankton]

500 per thousand is a third of what veneer sugarmaple sells for around here. I would never ship any of it for 500/mbf. Waste of good trees, also annual cash crop worth far more standing for syrup imo. If your talking soft maple then maybe. more like 7-800 for high quality.

most everything here goes north so if you find mills who are buying youll probably get a good price. Irving for white pine and duhamel for hemlock is where I go. Ive had good dealings with milan lumber in new hampshire for spruce wrong side of the border though.

[fishpharmer]

Rob30 welcome to forestryforum.com.  Concerning your timber, in my limited experience, it may be best to contact a forester or government forestry people for info on pricing. Maybe message ff member, Swampdonkey, he is a very knowledgeable Canadian forester.

[Clark]

If you want to keep busy this winter then go ahead and cut your timber. You're a farmer so you don't have anything else to do, right?

Obviously you do and you're trying to learn a whole new trade via the quickest method possible. The learning curve will be steep and expensive. I would recommend having a forester come look at your land and ask him for advice. If you need to have things cut I would suggest using a forester to set up the sale. He'll know what prices you should get and take a pile of work off your plate.

Clark

[SwampDonkey]

Rob, I hear your situation there. Probably very few woodlot owner groups. I would try and find one if they exist. If not, do you have forest extension staff with the MOF that help woodlot owners? Here in New Brunswick, we lost forest extension years ago, but we have had woodlot owner organizations for decades. These groups have a few roles here, they are knowledgeable about the local markets. They can assist woodlot owners with silviculture work that may receive government incentives to do the work and often have training sessions on various aspects of woods work like bucking logs for the best grade and directional felling and writing management plans and so on. I am often amazed to hear someone locally who has never heard of these groups. I guess as generations pass we must be getting less attached to the woods here in NB as a place to manage for the long haul and looking at it as the next place for the next big cash withdrawl for the bills. For 25 years it was gang busters here on woodlots, it has quieted a lot since 2005.

For what it is worth, here is a marketing sheet from two of our forest products marketing boards. Maybe the info will give you a baseline to work with. Keep in mind we have a US market here as well.

Wood Products Market Sheet

More up to date info from my local marketing board

For the real nice hard maple veneer here in these parts we can get US $2500/thousand from Columbia.

[Ramicorn]

Hey Swamp donkey, are those delivered or roadside prices? Just curious.

[SwampDonkey]

Road side for most. But Columbia always came and hauled to their mill either from your yard or marketing board yard. Scale handed to you when loaded or even before the truck arrived. Board staff will come buck for grade to. Used to be free, I am not sure if there is a charge now. Board staff recoup costs through levy, which is below 3 %. The services are not a free ride, but a heck of a good deal.  ;D

If you have a trucker you deal with, the board will withhold his trucking fee if you let them know the arrangement. Paid based on mill scale slip.

[tj240]

Call some mills in canada, they buy tons of wood. Amex, Hunting Spencer , Merciea. They pay good prices for crap logs , and some pay good for good logs. I am in new yok, but have sold alot of wood to canada. Call some mills and have them send the buyer to you. There is alot more mill, but i dont know all names, I am sure you can find what you want on the web or with some phone calls. Leave the maple unless it is ready. Here i get 500 for a # 2 sawlog.

[ehp]

good hard maple veneer in Ontario goes for a lot more than that , top price is $7,000 /1000 in USA money but if your in northern Ontario I'm pretty sure your not going to see that price , to many defects , mineral, heart size ,  a average is $3500 to $4500/1000 in USA money road side

[SwampDonkey]

good hard maple veneer in Ontario goes for a lot more than that , top price is $7,000 /1000 in USA money but if your in northern Ontario I'm pretty sure your not going to see that price , to many defects , mineral, heart size ,  a average is $3500 to $4500/1000 in USA money road side

Is that Miller Veeners? They have paid those prices here, but not Columbia. Columbia is an old stand by, where as others have came and went like migrating birds. ;D

[ehp]

no , veneer buyers here are from the USA, Columbia buys nothing here and for what they want to pay I can see why, their veneer price is hardly any better than what the sawmills here pay for sawlogs

[SwampDonkey]

They pay way more than sawmills here. The saw mills here are used to cheap wood. They don't need wood off private woodlots.  ;D

Miller Veneers is in Indiana.

http://millerveneers.com

[ehp]

wood here is very costly , if its hardwood and got grade to it your going to pay big bucks for it . Veneer buyers here are mainly out of Kentucky or Mich. There is 2 main buyers here and lots of smaller ones

[SwampDonkey]

We should be getting more for wood here to, but you can't compete with the government, they don't have to make money on wood. They take what they want elsewhere to make up for it.  ;D :D

[Logsforhome]

How many white pines do you have over 16"? Are you still hoping to sell them? Have you come up with a price structure yet?

[ehp]

99% of our whitepine is over 16 inches ,

[SwampDonkey]

Your just looking at the big ones.  :  ;D

[ehp]

they donot want anything cut under 22 inches in diameter here so yes we only look for the big ones  ;D

[SwampDonkey]

We don't do diameter limit cutting here in NB. It's considered high grading. When cutting to leave, trees are cut from each diameter class. If I was to cut only the larger and best, the sawmill would be happy, the pulp mill starving for wood and my woods would be low grade.  ;D

[ehp]

we are not cutting diameter, you have to come see how this system works, we leave so much wood standing pretty much most loggers would go nuts but that is how the system here works and it works well but we can go cut again in 8 years and again in 8 years and so on , we cut very light amount per cut , you donot touch the other trees or else  :( and that means hitting them with trees you are cutting  or the skidder . . There is no chip mills any where near here and the smallest top end log you can sell is 8 inch sometimes , my main mill takes nothing under 12 inch top

[ehp]

and you cannot cut the high grade , it is left standing . our low grade is better than lots of peoples high grade thou , every tree that is cut here has to be released by our bylaw officer

[SwampDonkey]

Is that some kind of township regulations? No such thing here.