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Selling Logs

Started by Rob30, November 29, 2016, 08:51:09 PM

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Rob30

I am first and formost a farmer, and have used my property for farming. That being said we have about 150 acres of mixed forest. Primarliy red, white pine, Spruce, Ash, Poplar, White birch and maple. I have heard a variety of numbers when looking into pricing for the logs. For some reason, unlike farming, this industry does not have place to easily check current prices. Can anyone steer me in the right direction here? I simply want to know what I should expect per load, what species is best harvested and which should stay standing for now. I am looking at clearing my property lines for some fencing, as well as some areas for more pasture. I will also be thinning out some of the trees. I will be felling the trees, delimbing and dragging them out to a landing. 

Rob30

I am still in need of some answers here. I have had a couple people contact me about log prices, however veneer maple see,s to be the only thing they want right now. That is going for about $500/thousand board feet. About 5000-7000 board feet per truck. However I think trucking charges come off that price.
The problem is I prefer not to cut too much of my maple, especially the large nice stuff. I am more interested in cutting and selling the soft wood if there is any money in it. As well as some poplar. We have alot of large red and white pine as well as spruce. I will be cutting some maple and birch, but mostly firewood quality. As well as some white ash, we have an ash borer problem around here.
So if anyone has an idea on soft wood prices in Ontario that would be great.   

schmalts

500 for maple veneer?  That seems low. I would Google plywood manufacturers in your area if there is any. At least a place to start, that's who buys it in my area.

GAB

The maple is the last thing I would be cutting as it can be an annual cash crop.
In my area there are many looking to purchase maple sap.
Gerald
W-M LT40HDD34, SLR, JD 420, JD 950w/loader and Woods backhoe, V3507 Fransguard winch, Cordwood Saw, 18' flat bed trailer, and other toys.

Plankton

500 per thousand is a third of what veneer sugarmaple sells for around here. I would never ship any of it for 500/mbf. Waste of good trees, also annual cash crop worth far more standing for syrup imo. If your talking soft maple then maybe. more like 7-800 for high quality.

most everything here goes north so if you find mills who are buying youll probably get a good price. Irving for white pine and duhamel for hemlock is where I go. Ive had good dealings with milan lumber in new hampshire for spruce wrong side of the border though.

fishpharmer

Rob30 welcome to forestryforum.com.  Concerning your timber, in my limited experience, it may be best to contact a forester or government forestry people for info on pricing. Maybe message ff member, Swampdonkey, he is a very knowledgeable Canadian forester.
Built my own band mill with the help of Forestry Forum. 
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The reason a lot of people do not recognize opportunity is because it usually goes around wearing overalls looking like hard work. --Tom A. Edison

Clark

If you want to keep busy this winter then go ahead and cut your timber. You're a farmer so you don't have anything else to do, right?

Obviously you do and you're trying to learn a whole new trade via the quickest method possible. The learning curve will be steep and expensive. I would recommend having a forester come look at your land and ask him for advice. If you need to have things cut I would suggest using a forester to set up the sale. He'll know what prices you should get and take a pile of work off your plate.

Clark
SAF Certified Forester

SwampDonkey

Rob, I hear your situation there. Probably very few woodlot owner groups. I would try and find one if they exist. If not, do you have forest extension staff with the MOF that help woodlot owners? Here in New Brunswick, we lost forest extension years ago, but we have had woodlot owner organizations for decades. These groups have a few roles here, they are knowledgeable about the local markets. They can assist woodlot owners with silviculture work that may receive government incentives to do the work and often have training sessions on various aspects of woods work like bucking logs for the best grade and directional felling and writing management plans and so on. I am often amazed to hear someone locally who has never heard of these groups. I guess as generations pass we must be getting less attached to the woods here in NB as a place to manage for the long haul and looking at it as the next place for the next big cash withdrawl for the bills. For 25 years it was gang busters here on woodlots, it has quieted a lot since 2005.

For what it is worth, here is a marketing sheet from two of our forest products marketing boards. Maybe the info will give you a baseline to work with. Keep in mind we have a US market here as well.

Wood Products Market Sheet

More up to date info from my local marketing board

For the real nice hard maple veneer here in these parts we can get US $2500/thousand from Columbia.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Ramicorn

Hey Swamp donkey, are those delivered or roadside prices? Just curious.

SwampDonkey

Road side for most. But Columbia always came and hauled to their mill either from your yard or marketing board yard. Scale handed to you when loaded or even before the truck arrived. Board staff will come buck for grade to. Used to be free, I am not sure if there is a charge now. Board staff recoup costs through levy, which is below 3 %. The services are not a free ride, but a heck of a good deal.  ;D

If you have a trucker you deal with, the board will withhold his trucking fee if you let them know the arrangement. Paid based on mill scale slip.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

tj240

Call some mills in canada, they buy tons of wood. Amex, Hunting Spencer , Merciea. They pay good prices for crap logs , and some pay good for good logs. I am in new yok, but have sold alot of wood to canada. Call some mills and have them send the buyer to you. There is alot more mill, but i dont know all names, I am sure you can find what you want on the web or with some phone calls. Leave the maple unless it is ready. Here i get 500 for a # 2 sawlog.
work with my father[jwilly] and my son. we have a 240 tj 160 barko[old] works great three generations working together

ehp

good hard maple veneer in Ontario goes for a lot more than that , top price is $7,000 /1000 in USA money but if your in northern Ontario I'm pretty sure your not going to see that price , to many defects , mineral, heart size ,  a average is $3500 to $4500/1000 in USA money road side

SwampDonkey

Quote from: ehp on December 05, 2016, 08:15:11 AM
good hard maple veneer in Ontario goes for a lot more than that , top price is $7,000 /1000 in USA money but if your in northern Ontario I'm pretty sure your not going to see that price , to many defects , mineral, heart size ,  a average is $3500 to $4500/1000 in USA money road side

Is that Miller Veeners? They have paid those prices here, but not Columbia. Columbia is an old stand by, where as others have came and went like migrating birds. ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

ehp

no , veneer buyers here are from the USA, Columbia buys nothing here and for what they want to pay I can see why, their veneer price is hardly any better than what the sawmills here pay for sawlogs

SwampDonkey

They pay way more than sawmills here. The saw mills here are used to cheap wood. They don't need wood off private woodlots.  ;D

Miller Veneers is in Indiana.

http://millerveneers.com
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

ehp

wood here is very costly , if its hardwood and got grade to it your going to pay big bucks for it . Veneer buyers here are mainly out of Kentucky or Mich. There is 2 main buyers here and lots of smaller ones

SwampDonkey

We should be getting more for wood here to, but you can't compete with the government, they don't have to make money on wood. They take what they want elsewhere to make up for it.  ;D :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Logsforhome

How many white pines do you have over 16"? Are you still hoping to sell them? Have you come up with a price structure yet?

ehp

99% of our whitepine is over 16 inches ,

SwampDonkey

Your just looking at the big ones.  ::)  ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

ehp

they donot want anything cut under 22 inches in diameter here so yes we only look for the big ones  ;D

SwampDonkey

We don't do diameter limit cutting here in NB. It's considered high grading. When cutting to leave, trees are cut from each diameter class. If I was to cut only the larger and best, the sawmill would be happy, the pulp mill starving for wood and my woods would be low grade.  ;D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

ehp

we are not cutting diameter, you have to come see how this system works, we leave so much wood standing pretty much most loggers would go nuts but that is how the system here works and it works well but we can go cut again in 8 years and again in 8 years and so on , we cut very light amount per cut , you donot touch the other trees or else  :( and that means hitting them with trees you are cutting  or the skidder . . There is no chip mills any where near here and the smallest top end log you can sell is 8 inch sometimes , my main mill takes nothing under 12 inch top

ehp

and you cannot cut the high grade , it is left standing . our low grade is better than lots of peoples high grade thou , every tree that is cut here has to be released by our bylaw officer

SwampDonkey

Is that some kind of township regulations? No such thing here.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Clark

ehp - I have lots of questions on your laws and regulations about cutting wood. What you post is pretty awesome wood (keep 'em coming!) and it seems like someone has the system figured out to provide the highest quality over time. Also, the growth rates there are off the chart and I don't comprehend how a place that gets snow can grow such quality hardwood so fast. I'd love to see it one day.

Clark
SAF Certified Forester

SwampDonkey

A very narrow band of Carolinian Deciduous region around Lakes Ontario and Erie. The Great Lakes St Lawrence and Acadian Forest regions is on the fringes of good hardwood, harsher climate and soil of a lot of it is glacial sand once you leave the wide river valleys where the best farm ground is. Our best hardwood ground here is now potato fields.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

ehp

I cut lots of 4 to 5 ft diameter stuff , mainly oak that is fairly young in age , I hardly ever see a 100 year old tree on sand , lots of trees I cut are 30 to 40 years old and on good soil oak can grow easy over a inch per year in diameter . On clay it grows a lot slower but the color in red oak is a lot nicer than on sand . The by-law has changed things in the last 8 or so years , they raised the basal up so we have to leave more bigger trees and even the foresters had to change how they were marking , some trees have to be 28 inches in diameter before they can be marked to cut

SwampDonkey

We don't get that kind of growth in hard maple or yellow birch up here. I remember a guy from New York bringing some of his experiences here and said they got 4" diameter growth in 10 years in maple, not here, a lot harder climate.  The best ground here grows 0.7 cords an acre, mostly 0.5 as average. I've yet to see a hardwood over 85 feet here. On the higher ridges maybe 65 feet. When you look at the forest here, the red spruce and hemlock will tower above the hardwood canopy. A lot of so called productive forest here is also including black spruce barons in eastern counties. When you get away from the main rivers, 15-20 miles as the crow flies, the ground is not as nice for tree growth. Any 40"+ hard maple or birch here is mostly on crown land and extremely old and usually hollow. I have a 30 year old white oak on the lawn that is very slow growing, even in the open. It's 10" at breast height, but not more than 35 feet tall. I have 15 year old yellow birch on ground like garden soil, planted trees, that are 20-25 feet. But I have red oak same age that are just sticks, same soil. It was grassy where the oak are, the birch are on an orchard site beside.
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

ehp

Swamp, I have been to NB lots of times and know your ground pretty good , my logger friend from there came out here a year ago to play in these trees , he rans 17 chokers on his 240 , I run 3 on my 230A and use 1 most of the times . he thought is was pretty cool

SwampDonkey

I've known lots of ground on the farm we never needed 17 chokers, was cutting 20- 36" aspen or 20-28" white ash. Depends, if you want to cut small wood in clearcuts every 30 years, then you'll never see big wood. And there is a lot more clearcuts here than single tree selection. When you own the ground your cutting, the methods quite often change. Drive the 4-lane here and it's 99% clear cut the last 30 years. I have to remind outsiders of that on occasion. :D
"No amount of belief makes something a fact." James Randi

1 Thessalonians 5:21

2020 Polaris Ranger 570 to forward firewood, Husqvarna 555 XT Pro, Stihl FS560 clearing saw and continuously thinning my ground, on the side. Grow them trees. (((o)))

Bert

17 chokers? Wow. Thats alot to drag through the brush in any condition.
Saw you tomorrow!

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