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Opinion on the tie markets? Anyone?

Started by jdw, November 28, 2016, 12:30:38 PM

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jdw

Does anyone have any idea what's going on in this market. I have been hauling ties for a while and seems every load I'm told I can saw more, or to saw less. I've went from a load a week , to one a month, back to a load a week, now I'm back to one a month. Seems like even the tie buyers don't even know what's gonna happen.

Percy

This is just a guess as I'm not involved in that market but have the same scenario with a few of my larger customers. The automotive industry calls the process "just in time delivery". Saves on warehousing and inventory costs. Puts the suppliers (you) under  alot more pressure. I'm thinking because of the many suppliers of ties, it translates to what you are experiencing.
GOLDEN RULE : The guy with the gold, makes the rules.

Brad_S.

 Demand of course plays a large part in tie usage. Right now, with the coal industry dying, railroads have lost a major source of income and themselves are hurting. No new track is being laid and maintenance is being deferred on many lines.
"Life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans." J. Lennon

drobertson

Just drove 800 mi!es east to SC, seen lots of maintenance crews switching out old with new, also saw a few more concrete ties going in, as to the market for hardwood ties, I'm thinking its always going to be a roller coaster, always has been from my experience,
only have a few chain saws I'm not suppose to use, but will at times, one dog Dolly, pretty good dog, just not sure what for yet,  working on getting the gardening back in order, and kinda thinking on maybe a small bbq bizz,  thinking about it,

killamplanes

My2c locally, established tie mills are being told no change, they buy all the ties they produce. The new guys and part time guys are getting graded hard, and tie buyers not overly interested in there production. Overall locally tie log prices have softened. Due mainly cause oversupply of low end logs with side lumber below grade, ie pallet stock is abundant.
jd440 skidder, western star w/grapple,tk B-20 hyd, electric, stihl660,and 2X661. and other support Equipment, pallet manufacturing line

quilbilly

How do yall find a tie buyer? Up here in the pnw I haven't heard of too many people cutting for the tie market. Maybe back east or down south the market is just that much bigger.
a man is strongest on his knees

killamplanes

It's all hardwood here. I don't know maybe your timber is different. I travel 2 hours to turn mine in.
jd440 skidder, western star w/grapple,tk B-20 hyd, electric, stihl660,and 2X661. and other support Equipment, pallet manufacturing line

Ron Wenrich

Your markets aren't quite set up or ties.  Ties are generally made from dense hardwoods.  Your forests are loaded with softwoods with patches of hardwoods.  Cottonwood and aspen won't make ties and I'm not sure about the alder.  Maple and oak are probably the largest majority of ties here in the northeast.  We have fewer conifers in the forests, and softwoods are not used in ties.  Maybe some markets on the west coast will use something like Doug fir or hemlock.  Species is set by the each rail line.

Another problem is that there aren't any tie plants on the west coast.  Looking at a big producer like Koppers, they have a plant in British Columbia, and one in Denver.   If they can't locally produce ties for the west coast markets, they won't be buying them. 

Many of your mills are also set up to produce dimension lumber.  In the northeast, most mills are producing random width boards for the cabinet and flooring markets.   Typically, this is produced by turning the log and cutting the best face.  This is a little different concept in the breakdown of the log.  Our core will be the residual.  Ties work quite well, and the heart is usually boxed, yielding a better tie. 
Never under estimate the power of stupid people in large groups.

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